Baileyrock Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Kevin a couple questions if I may... Did you have any trouble setting your oil level with the forks at an angle. I just had RaceTech tell me that the level was very important and the forks needed to be straight up to get it right. I plan on changing the valves and springs without removing the forks based on inspiration from this thread, can I do it you think? Thanks Kevin. Hi Kevin, Sure, all you have to do is figure out where the proper level would be with the 43mm tubes at 25 deg angle vs straight up! So basically if you measure the high side of the angled fork oil in the tube it will read approximately 10mm high vs level tube, so just subtract 10mm from desired measured level and you should be right there IMO. :fing02: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jasonsmith Posted January 9, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted January 9, 2010 Kevin a couple questions if I may... Did you have any trouble setting your oil level with the forks at an angle. I just had RaceTech tell me that the level was very important and the forks needed to be straight up to get it right. I plan on changing the valves and springs without removing the forks based on inspiration from this thread, can I do it you think? Thanks Kevin. Hi Kevin, Sure, all you have to do is figure out where the proper level would be with the 43mm tubes at 25 deg angle vs straight up! So basically if you measure the high side of the angled fork oil in the tube it will read approximately 10mm high vs level tube, so just subtract 10mm from desired measured level and you should be right there IMO. :fing02: Thanks Kevin, much appreciated. I have the G2-R Next Generation Compression Kit and the Hi-Frequency Response Race Rebound Gold Valve with some .95's on route to me. RaceTech recommended the Hi-Freq Rebound for whatever reason. They are pre-drilling for me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thanks Kevin, much appreciated. I have the G2-R Next Generation Compression Kit and the Hi-Frequency Response Race Rebound Gold Valve with some .95's on route to me. RaceTech recommended the Hi-Freq Rebound for whatever reason. They are pre-drilling for me as well. Be sure to let us know how that set-up works for you! :fing02: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jasonsmith Posted January 9, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thanks Kevin, much appreciated. I have the G2-R Next Generation Compression Kit and the Hi-Frequency Response Race Rebound Gold Valve with some .95's on route to me. RaceTech recommended the Hi-Freq Rebound for whatever reason. They are pre-drilling for me as well. Be sure to let us know how that set-up works for you! :fing02: Will do, since all the ideas are yours to begin with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jasonsmith Posted January 17, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2010 Thanks Kevin, much appreciated. I have the G2-R Next Generation Compression Kit and the Hi-Frequency Response Race Rebound Gold Valve with some .95's on route to me. RaceTech recommended the Hi-Freq Rebound for whatever reason. They are pre-drilling for me as well. Be sure to let us know how that set-up works for you! :goofy: Well all the bits arrived and they are all in. I tried to do it without taking the forks off but the oil lock piece at the bottom of the fork caused some grief. I couldn't get the cartridge to seat so couldn't get the bolt back in, none the less taking the fork off added another 10 min so it wasn't a big deal. So the numbers... Rear - 35mm sag in the rear with 9mm free sag. Front - 35mm sag with 22mm free sag... is that okay or is the spring to stiff...? It can't be to stiff, considering that RaceTech actually wants a 1kg+ spring for my 220lbs. I was having some stiction related number changing but I'm pretty sure I got decently reliable numbers. So... is 20-22mm free sag okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steven113 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 On the VTEC and the 5th gen, that drain bolt isn't in such a convenient location as on the F4i forks... it's on the upside face of the inside the axle housing, so you have to pull the front wheel off and remove the pinch bolt(s) completely to access the bolt that holds all the fork internals in place... I have never needed an impact wrench to get this bolt out, but a friend of mine did bugger his altogether, which means getting a new (or second hand) internal cartridge... But never fear, it is doable without removing the forks.. just a wee bit more complicated than for the F4i... but hey, removing the front wheel is as easy as dropping a fart... Obviously you won't get all the old fork oil out but I guess it's better than not changing the oil ever... I use a jack under the headers to support the bike without the wheel. Actually the VFR & F4i forks are exactly the same design as far as bolt location, the only difference is that the VFR uses a smaller bolt size than the F4i. Still no need to pull the wheel, just remove the axle (& pinch bolt if needed) and you have full access to the bolts in the bottom of the forks. Also no reason not be able to flush every bit of old oil from the tubes when there empty and use compress air to blow out any remaining flushing fluid that might still be there. :fing02: Easy, simple, quick! Unless you need to replace seals or tube bushings there's no reason to pull the forks or any bodywork! :goofy: Would I be correct by saying the internal rod for the f4i is hollow and the vfr 6thgen is solid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jasonsmith Posted January 17, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) On the VTEC and the 5th gen, that drain bolt isn't in such a convenient location as on the F4i forks... it's on the upside face of the inside the axle housing, so you have to pull the front wheel off and remove the pinch bolt(s) completely to access the bolt that holds all the fork internals in place... I have never needed an impact wrench to get this bolt out, but a friend of mine did bugger his altogether, which means getting a new (or second hand) internal cartridge... But never fear, it is doable without removing the forks.. just a wee bit more complicated than for the F4i... but hey, removing the front wheel is as easy as dropping a fart... Obviously you won't get all the old fork oil out but I guess it's better than not changing the oil ever... I use a jack under the headers to support the bike without the wheel. Actually the VFR & F4i forks are exactly the same design as far as bolt location, the only difference is that the VFR uses a smaller bolt size than the F4i. Still no need to pull the wheel, just remove the axle (& pinch bolt if needed) and you have full access to the bolts in the bottom of the forks. Also no reason not be able to flush every bit of old oil from the tubes when there empty and use compress air to blow out any remaining flushing fluid that might still be there. :fing02: Easy, simple, quick! Unless you need to replace seals or tube bushings there's no reason to pull the forks or any bodywork! :goofy: Would I be correct by saying the internal rod for the f4i is hollow and the vfr 6thgen is solid? My rod was hollow. I know because oil was constantly dripping out of it all over my garage floor. :mad: Edited January 17, 2010 by jasonsmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJVFR Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 When replacing the bolt in the bottom of the forks, do I need to replace the copper washer or reuse the existing one? Opinions? :unsure: Looking at replacing fluid in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jasonsmith Posted January 28, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted January 28, 2010 When replacing the bolt in the bottom of the forks, do I need to replace the copper washer or reuse the existing one? Opinions? :unsure: Looking at replacing fluid in the near future. mine stayed stuck on the fork so I left it and reused it. It's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 When replacing the bolt in the bottom of the forks, do I need to replace the copper washer or reuse the existing one? Opinions? :unsure: Looking at replacing fluid in the near future. mine stayed stuck on the fork so I left it and reused it. It's all good. I've never had an issue reusing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flash1034 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Does anybody use kerosene to flush out the forks and clean all the gunk out of the tubes. I used to use kerosene on my dirtbikes and it works well. Any reason not to use it on the VFR? Flash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Serenity_VFR Posted March 15, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted March 15, 2010 Outstanding tip! I've been removing forks to do this job since they quit putting the drain bolts in lower legs (and I've always been told that the drain bolts didn't do a good job of draining everything and that is why the fork companies quit putting them on there -or something to do with how the cartridges on newer bikes are put together precludes the drain working correctly. I'm going to try this next time. As far as the the bottom bolt is concerned, I've found that if you don't have an impact wrench you can use a battery drill instead. Once you loosen the bolt by hand to the point where it starts to turn (and turn and turn and turn, because the cartridge is moving too) you just put the battery drill on with the correct sized allen head and hit the trigger. The drill moves the bottom bolt so fast that the cartridge doesn't have a chance to get moving due to its own inertia. The bolt will just spin free. This technique works for me -but then again the bike has had the bolt removed before too. It has worked for me on other bikes the first time though. I never thought of pulling the bolt out as a drain bolt before. :biggrin: This website rocks! :fing02: I don't know why I've not been paying much attention to it all these years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eole72 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Hi guys I'm new on this forum and new in the VFR world! I just bought a 2003 VFR with ABS. When I did the road test prior to purchase, the bike seamed pretty straight and smooth rolling. But it's now been a week since purchase and I feel the suspension is getting more and more "loose". When I ride, my front tire seams to jump continously. I checked the tire pressure and it is ok. I do have the impression that the tire has bumps in it but i dont think it could cause such bumping. when I brake only in front, the bike really go forward... I have done my fork seals on a custom before, but i never done it on a VFR. Could it be my seals that are dead? missing oil? there is no sign of oil leak... no rust on cylinder... also, when the bike is on it's side stand, if i grab the rear handle i can easily rock the bike ! as if the swing arm was rocking slightly horizontally . I know it's a lot of explanation but i really need to know what's going on! dont want to get ripped off by the shop ! Any comments? suggestions? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 Hi guys I'm new on this forum and new in the VFR world! I just bought a 2003 VFR with ABS. When I did the road test prior to purchase, the bike seamed pretty straight and smooth rolling. But it's now been a week since purchase and I feel the suspension is getting more and more "loose". When I ride, my front tire seams to jump continously. I checked the tire pressure and it is ok. I do have the impression that the tire has bumps in it but i dont think it could cause such bumping. when I brake only in front, the bike really go forward... I have done my fork seals on a custom before, but i never done it on a VFR. Could it be my seals that are dead? missing oil? there is no sign of oil leak... no rust on cylinder... also, when the bike is on it's side stand, if i grab the rear handle i can easily rock the bike ! as if the swing arm was rocking slightly horizontally . I know it's a lot of explanation but i really need to know what's going on! dont want to get ripped off by the shop ! Any comments? suggestions? Thanks Hi and Welcome to VFRD! :fing02: What tires and pressures are you running? 36/42 is almost ideal pressures. I would think it would be more of a tire issue than forks unless it's some hack rebuilt wreck! :cheerleader: Set sag rates to your weight asap (search forms)and if you weigh over 160lbs the VFR is sprung to soft for you in general! Not sure what your talking about with the movement on teh side stand! :fing02: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 When I ride, my front tire seams to jump continously. ...I do have the impression that the tire has bumps in it but i dont think it could cause such bumping. I would recommmend checking the oil level in the forks (100mm/3.9"), it doesn't take much time. Also have a good look at the tires as it sounds like there maybe something wrong with the cords. Got a pic of the bumps on the tire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oubaa Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Hi all, Very interesting topic. I just bought a 12 year old, low milleage fifth gen. Everything seems OK, but I've read in a couple of threads that fork oil is a must replacement for older bikes. Is there any reason to this? (water ingress, corrosion, fungus). Everything works fine and there's no leakage. I'm not a very good mechanic, but if it is necesarry, I might give this a shot. The only other thing I plan to do is replace clutch actuator fluid, since it looks yellow. Strangely, brake fluid still looks perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Hi all, Very interesting topic. I just bought a 12 year old, low milleage fifth gen. Everything seems OK, but I've read in a couple of threads that fork oil is a must replacement for older bikes. Is there any reason to this? (water ingress, corrosion, fungus). Everything works fine and there's no leakage. I'm not a very good mechanic, but if it is necesarry, I might give this a shot. The only other thing I plan to do is replace clutch actuator fluid, since it looks yellow. Strangely, brake fluid still looks perfect. Well pretty much like most/all fluids they break down over time with or w/o use, so it never hurts to change them out. ps Welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Oubaa there is a very simple explanation, you change engine oil regularly because of heat & contaminants, fork oil needs to be changed for the same reason. Fork oil heats up & is contaminated in two ways very fine dust particles can pass through the seals & the internal components like the brass alinement bushes & valve stem which are continually under side loading from flex & up/down movement wear. This is why you can find major amounts of sludge within a fork tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olson_jr Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Thanks for this write up. Changed my fork oil and installed springs in a couple of hours yesterday afternoon. Was going to wait until after the riding season, but this made it so easy I want to do it again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I think this method is the way most shops do it , cause its much quicker. However I dont like breakign seal contacts unless actually replacing seals, and oil heiught is a critical set up, that should be measured accurately(with the forks off and completely vertical). Half a cap of oil, can mean the difference between a fork that works well and one that doesnt. So, I personally do not use this method, for risk of seal leak developement, and accurate oil height measurement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 I think this method is the way most shops do it , cause its much quicker. However I dont like breakign seal contacts unless actually replacing seals, and oil heiught is a critical set up, that should be measured accurately(with the forks off and completely vertical). Half a cap of oil, can mean the difference between a fork that works well and one that doesnt. So, I personally do not use this method, for risk of seal leak developement, and accurate oil height measurement. This is NOT the best method for fork oil change as complete disassembly would provide complete cleaning, BUT it's great for a quick refresh of anything currently in the forks and it can be performed 30min before a ride! On oil level: I've already done all the calculations to achieve correct oil levels while forks are still on the bike! It amounts to adding 10mm from measured oil level height to give true level. ie: measure 100mm level on bike, actual is 110mm. BR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted October 6, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2012 100mm is far too much fluid. For the VFR800's I suggest 130mm, but never go beyond 120mm. Any more fluid and your internal air pressure ramps to the moon before full travel is reached. Each bike/model/generation is different and this information applies to VFR800's only (both Ø41mm and Ø43mm forks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 100mm is far too much fluid. For the VFR800's I suggest 130mm, but never go beyond 120mm. Any more fluid and your internal air pressure ramps to the moon before full travel is reached. Each bike/model/generation is different and this information applies to VFR800's only (both Ø41mm and Ø43mm forks). Course your assuming, not running stock springs, 120mm on stock springs or even 100mm, is instant bottoming and blowing through the travel, Just an FYI for those who think of trying with stock fluid weight and springs. Im actually running 95mm on stock springs with ss8, its very usable. The ramp up is there that you talk about at the bottom of stroke, but it fits me well, Thats what I wanted, it's just right. The rear shock I could use alittle more beef , 80 mph 1 1/2 ft deep wash board road, stresses the limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 100mm is far too much fluid. For the VFR800's I suggest 130mm, but never go beyond 120mm. Any more fluid and your internal air pressure ramps to the moon before full travel is reached. Each bike/model/generation is different and this information applies to VFR800's only (both Ø41mm and Ø43mm forks). My numbers are for example only in reference to measuring levels on the bike, NOT spec level for anything! It only means actual is a 10mm less then measured on bike, nothing else. Sorry if anyone thought otherwise! BR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted October 11, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2012 Course your assuming, not running stock springs, 120mm on stock springs or even 100mm, is instant bottoming and blowing through the travel, Just an FYI for those who think of trying with stock fluid weight and springs. Actually, the spring rate plays no part in this discussion. Fluid level creates the available volume for the air to compress when the forks travel. Without enough air gap in the forks the air pressure will ramp to an excessive level. This causes a variety of problems. Not only can this lead to premature seal wear but there are performance drawbacks as well. The air "spring" inside the forks ramps up at an exponential rate, with too much ramp up the effective travel of the forks will be reduced. The VFR's have approximately 109mm of fork travel, the commonly accepted "good" number is more like 120mm. Since the VFR's are already starting out behind the 8-ball in the fork travel department it's best to not reduce it any further. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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