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Hossackviffer Mkii


redmarque

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fairing3.jpg


After the experiences learned from HossackViffer MK1
Which can be found here: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34907

I've decided to make a new chassis using most of the components from Mk1

New frame design inprogess, with loads of revisions...

Feel free to comment/suggest ideas as i'd really like this to turn out better than MK1! :blink:

steeringhead.jpg

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I would jig as much of the frame as possible, try to make it modular. Break it down to left half, right half, front, and connections. Make jigs for each, then tie them together with temporary braces, finish weld, and heat treat/stress relieve. Also, I realize that you may not have access to a tube bender, but the less pieces you use, the better.

You might like to try making one of these tube notchers: http://64.172.168.34/neatstuff/cbh-notcher.htm

There's lots of good info on the main page as well; chopper oriented, but as you know a lot of it applies to your build too! http://64.172.168.34/neatstuff/

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That is oh, so sweet!

It looks like you have a bunch of individual sections. Have you thought about making some a continuous piece? I'm particularly talking about the longest horizontal bar. It looks like it's not straight, but it would seem to be easier to bend that part and use it as the base to weld everything else from.

Keep us up to date on your progress!

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[quote name='Baketech' date='Oct 21 2009, 12:07 PM' post='657286'

what modeler are you using?

Cheers Guys, sure that this build will be a major improvement on the last!

Modelling is in Solidworks 2009 - I'm really impressed with it coming from an AutoCAD 2D user.

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Have you thought about making some a continuous piece? I'm particularly talking about the longest horizontal bar.

Thanks Jamie! Yes, i'm actually going to use a tube bender this time!! The tube from the top wishbone pivot to the one above the rear cylinder heads will be one piece. it could go all the way to the rear shock tube but putting 2 bends at different angles each side could prove tricky.

I'll post up a 3D mock-up of the jig/fixtures when I've design them for your thoughts.

BTW, thanks again for the info on CBR954 shocks! :blink:

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I would jig as much of the frame as possible, try to make it modular. Break it down to left half, right half, front, and connections. Make jigs for each, then tie them together with temporary braces, finish weld, and heat treat/stress relieve. Also, I realize that you may not have access to a tube bender, but the less pieces you use, the better.

You might like to try making one of these tube notchers: http://64.172.168.34/neatstuff/cbh-notcher.htm

There's lots of good info on the main page as well; chopper oriented, but as you know a lot of it applies to your build too! http://64.172.168.34/neatstuff/

Nice notcher and website suggestion Seb!

I agree that a modular jig would be the best way forward - John Bradley's books show some good examples of making sub-jigs to alight things acurately like swingarm pivots and head tubes.

I've earmarked some 60x60mm steel box section with a 3mm thick wall to build the jig out of. should be plenty strong enough to aid minimising distortion.

Jig will be all bolted together and allow for shiming to the uprights so that they remain vertical.

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Speaking of Solidworks, I think I might know of a guy who can do stress analysis on your design. He's on customfighters.com and goes by "shift1313".

Oh! handy. Solidworks it'self can do single element/frame analysis - not sure if I'll get my head around it though! so would be excellent to get some advise.

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Feel free to comment/suggest ideas as i'd really like this to turn out better than MK1! :blink:

Nice. What are you going to do for steering links? IIRC, they are the most, uh, entertaining part of doing a Hossack (unless you're doing parallel, equal length links, and where's the challenge in that?).

Do you know the chassis design maillist run out of micapeak.com or Eurospares?

Glenn

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Are you re-using your old yoke and clipons, or have you considered making that one monolithic unit?

Yes, thought about making a new lighter weight one. (like the Bimota Tesi 3D) but will use the orignal for now as cost $$ to machine

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Feel free to comment/suggest ideas as i'd really like this to turn out better than MK1! :blink:

Nice. What are you going to do for steering links? IIRC, they are the most, uh, entertaining part of doing a Hossack (unless you're doing parallel, equal length links, and where's the challenge in that?).

Do you know the chassis design maillist run out of micapeak.com or Eurospares?

Glenn

I'm going to be boring and use the 'standard' hossack parallel/equal length links. seen some other solutions to the linkage of bars to forks but all require machining skills i don't have.... some times it's best to KIS

As to the chassis design list - I'm already on it. There's some good discussion and recommendation going on there. Also some pearls of wisdom from the older members of the list. I'd recommend signing up for anyone who's interested in making a motorcycle chassis.

Always thought it would be good to turn it into a Forum like VFRD?

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OK, I didn't recognize your user name from the chassis list. I think if I was going to build another FFE I'd go with a parallel/equal Hossack as well, just to keep complications down to the point where it might actually get completed :blush: .

I think there was a suggestion of turning the chassis list into a forum at some point recently (was that you?). Michael can 'outsource' the list operation to micapeak. A forum would be a bunch more work - I don't know how HS runs this and still gets to ride.

Glenn

I'm going to be boring and use the 'standard' hossack parallel/equal length links. seen some other solutions to the linkage of bars to forks but all require machining skills i don't have.... some times it's best to KIS

As to the chassis design list - I'm already on it. There's some good discussion and recommendation going on there. Also some pearls of wisdom from the older members of the list. I'd recommend signing up for anyone who's interested in making a motorcycle chassis.

Always thought it would be good to turn it into a Forum like VFRD?

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Thanks Glynn -good to have a sanity check about linkage ideas. Very much agree with your "actually get completed" statement!

You mention that you've built an FFE before? Any chance we can see pictures/designs of it? what was it like to ride?

As to the Chassis list becoming a forum - that's really something i'd like to see (though haven't suggested on list) I would be seroiusly willing to help run one, if the list would agree? I believe a reliable bunch of admin volunteers is the key to HS's success.

PM me if you'd like to discuss further.

I think if I was going to build another FFE I'd go with a parallel/equal Hossack as well, just to keep complications down to the point where it might actually get completed :fing02: .

I think there was a suggestion of turning the chassis list into a forum at some point recently (was that you?). Michael can 'outsource' the list operation to micapeak. A forum would be a bunch more work - I don't know how HS runs this and still gets to ride.

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Nerdly CAD question for you... :huh:

Prior to modeling, what are you using to work out the geometry....are you riffing this in SW also, or do you find it easier to sketch those freebody elements in AutoCad?

I think it's just as easier to draw straight into Solidworks. i've imported a few drawings from autocad but end up using tem as a template for a new sketch!

Best to:

"normal to" a view first - front, right or top. then use the origin as a reference to start your 2D sketch. You can always use the 2d sketch as a reference to create a 3d sketch. Smart dimension also makes alterations far easier than autocad.

Red

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I haven't used SolidWorks, I was introduced to 3D modeling with Catia here at work. It's pretty cool and I hear it's very similar to SolidWorks. I need to spend more time with it!

Oh Catia.. big boy's toy's - you should definalty learn it Seb :huh: especially if work will pay for the courses!

take a look at SolidCAM - like the idea of walking into a machine shop with the g-code ready written and checked to run the NC Mill

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SolidWorks is head and shoulders above the rest. I think it's funny how people claim "it's a lot like SolidWorks" when SW will blow it away. Catia is in the same category as ProE - they are dinosaurs*. The only system comparible to SW is SolidEdge. There are some things like I better about each, but overall they are equivalent. Systems like Catia, ProE, etc have some neat functionality but considering how much of a pain they are to use they just don't stack up. What takes me 10min on ProE would take me about 2min on SW or SE... literally. Add that up over a day and you can see my frustration.

Redmarque - don't forget to keep those updates coming!

* ProE is what I use at work now and it's horrible.

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SolidWorks is head and shoulders above the rest. I think it's funny how people claim "it's a lot like SolidWorks" when SW will blow it away. Catia is in the same category as ProE - they are dinosaurs*. The only system comparible to SW is SolidEdge. There are some things like I better about each, but overall they are equivalent. Systems like Catia, ProE, etc have some neat functionality but considering how much of a pain they are to use they just don't stack up. What takes me 10min on ProE would take me about 2min on SW or SE... literally. Add that up over a day and you can see my frustration.

Redmarque - don't forget to keep those updates coming!

* ProE is what I use at work now and it's horrible.

Yep, that's why Boeing, Sikorsky, Lockheed, Vought, and a few other aerospace manufacturers use Catia... because it takes them longer and it's harder to use... :huh: Catia and ProE are NOT the same. The old Catia V4, yes that was painful, but V5 is great.

"A horse for every course" ... saying one is better than another only applies to what you're working on...

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I use Solid Works about every day. Well, ok my drafters do. I mainly use it for stress analysis.

Send me your part file, detailed material/heat treat specs, and some potential loads and I will do some analysis for you. I can probably do some fatigue analysis if I take the time to learn that part. :cool:

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Bike looks like a really nice concept. I agree on solidworks being great. I've been out of that stuff for about 5 yrs, but even back then Solidworks and surfcam were my most used programs when I was a design engineer. I also used a bit of autoCad, but always felt it was second rate compared to solidworks.

George

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I use Solid Works about every day. Well, ok my drafters do. I mainly use it for stress analysis.

Send me your part file, detailed material/heat treat specs, and some potential loads and I will do some analysis for you. I can probably do some fatigue analysis if I take the time to learn that part. :cool:

Fantastic! what a great offer! That's really kind of you Chev. :blink: not sure what the potential loads would be as I'm no engineer! mind you, you probably have some views/experience on the matter?

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Rule of thumb........... overload the model and see what breaks. :cool:

I'm looking forward to playing with another type of problem. :blink:

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Rule of thumb........... overload the model and see what breaks. :cool:

I'm looking forward to playing with another type of problem. :cool:

Oh Goody! :blink: that sounds like 'fun' (hum.. but slightly nerdy too) :blush:

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