Wouldn't It Be Safer If The Brake Lights Came On During Hard Engine Braking?

[coderighter]

What if I used a vacuum switch set real high, like 22+ inches, to make the brake light come on when you're under heavy engine braking? How about maybe just lighting 1 of the 2 bulbs? Would there be any thing wrong with doing this?

[vfrjim2002]

What if I used a vacuum switch set real high, like 22+ inches, to make the brake light come on when you're under heavy braking? How about maybe just lighting 1 of the 2 bulbs? Would there be any thing wrong with doing this?

How heavily does your engine brake? I suppose you could do this, but it might be easier to just lightly touch the front lever, no?

[FotoMoto]

I touch a brake lever if warranted; not real hard to do and you're even better able to smoothly apply brake force if need be.

[billyjackjimbob]

What if I used a vacuum switch set real high, like 22+ inches, to make the brake light come on when you're under heavy braking? How about maybe just lighting 1 of the 2 bulbs? Would there be any thing wrong with doing this?

Sounds like a damn good idea if ya ask me! I can't tell you the number of times I've wished people behind me knew when I was engine braking ALOT. I try to tap the lever but I think this is a good idea.

Kevin

PS

Can't wait to see the "How To."

[Guest Pete McCrary]

How about a red, yellow, green light system?

Red - brakes obviously

Yellow - off the gas, engine braking

Green - on the gas

Or you could just blow by him and let him worry about what you're doing.

[coderighter]

Thinking about it more, it would be really great when you're going down the freeway and you see traffic slowing ahead. I typical pop down to 4th or 5th and glide in instead of running up and hitting the binders. It's that long engine braking that I think this would be good for. Also each time you pop down a gear coming to a little traffic light, the brake light would flash. Yeah, you can tap the brakes, and I usally do, but this would just an extra for those times you choose not to tap'em, for whatever reason.

Just a couple extra thoughts.

[YoshiHNS]

I'm usually on the rear break just enough to trip the sensor, but it would be a nice little feature.

Don't exactly see where you would use a vacuum sensor. Just giving it a thought, not really sure how you would do it easily. Engine breaking isn't the easiest state to determine by one sensor.

[Trace]

This just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Cars don't have it, bikes don't have it, and its usefulness is questionable. And, maybe there are times when you don't want it to actuate, but you'll have no choice. I sure wouldn't want to follow you in the twisties with that thing going on and off all the time!

If you're worried about traffic seeing you when slowing, why not do it right? Try these....they're impossible to miss. I'll bet Stevie Wonder would see 'em if he was driving behind you! http://www.hyperlites.com/ They're very high quality and friggin' BRIGHT!

[COS_VFR]

Personally, I am just in the habit of tapping my brakes to let the people behind me know i am slowing down. I like a manual trans in both my cage and bike and have noticed that since most cages are auto trans, most cage drivers are used to seeing brake lights when a car is slowing down. I can be a slow learner sometimes and I have been rearended 3 times in a cage while driving in slow moving, traffic-light to traffic-light driving. I think the fact I was slowing down, but did not have the brakes on contributed to idiots behind me not paying attention. That and stopping for a redlight

[coderighter]

This just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Cars don't have it, bikes don't have it, and its usefulness is questionable. And, maybe there are times when you don't want it to actuate, but you'll have no choice. I sure wouldn't want to follow you in the twisties with that thing going on and off all the time!

If you're worried about traffic seeing you when slowing, why not do it right? Try these....they're impossible to miss. I'll bet Stevie Wonder would see 'em if he was driving behind you! http://www.hyperlites.com/ They're very high quality and friggin' BRIGHT!

I think the reason cars don't have it is because a large percent are automatics with little engine breaking. Even the cars with a manual transmission don't have near the engine breaking a sport bike has with it's higher compression and much higher RPM. I remember an early '70's Datsun pick-up I had with 4 wheel drum brakes that couldn't whoo-up using the brakes as fast as I can with engine braking on my viffer.

You won't get close enough to see my taillight on the twisties!

Well, not really, I pretty slow ( I have a wife and 10 year old son to think about). I'm sure most folks will be ahead of me.

I'll think about the hyperlites. Thanks for the link

[Lee 2002]

....there are times when you don't want it to actuate.....

I would not want an engine-activated brake light. Plus, I think it is a bad idea. You can rest a finger on the front enough to make the switch without any real braking if you need to get someones attention.

[VFR Capt.Bob]

Just use your brakes when you are coming to a stop. They're a lot cheaper to replace than the drive train and transmission parts you are stressing by down shifting to stop. I can't think of too many city braking situations where I have to use race style down shifts to stop for the red light etc. Don't give Honda anymore wild ideas for the next VFR.

[marid2apterbilt]

Just use your brakes when you are coming to a stop. They're a lot cheaper to replace than the drive train and transmission parts you are stressing by down shifting to stop. I can't think of too many city braking situations where I have to use race style down shifts to stop for the red light etc. Don't give Honda anymore wild ideas for the next VFR.

Not to mention heavy engine braking really eats up tires fast..

[JamieDaugherty]

What about DOT and legal ramifications?? Keep in mind that when it comes to indicators, especially the color of the lights, you cannot just do whatever you want. There are laws that spell out what the lights are supposed to do and when, be prepared for a "conversation" between yourself and your local law enforcement officer if there is any question about how your bike is acting!

[HispanicSlammer]

Not to mention heavy engine braking really eats up tires fast..

Really? I have never hear of that before? I imagine it works over the rear tire - but does it work over the rear tire than..say if you are just using front and back brakes at the same time? I tend to ride in a style that is suited to the "pace" that is not so much brake and more or less off throttle before the turn, engine braking I suppose then on the gas as soon as I have set my lean angle as soon as possible. I am not a knee dragger either so I am not blazing into turns so fast either.

[Trace]

I'll think about the hyperlites. Thanks for the link

They really are quite good. The red LED strobe effect really gets attention, and there are two or three settings you can choose, from no strobe, strobe-to-solid (in a few seconds) or all strobe. Day or night, they're ultra-crazy-visible.

What about DOT and legal ramifications?? Keep in mind that when it comes to indicators, especially the color of the lights, you cannot just do whatever you want.

Yeah, if you have anything but yellow on the front and red at the rear, or anything else blinking where it's not supposed to be, cops can get a little annoyed cuz you're on their turf regarding flashing lights! And don't even THINK about adding blue lights anywhere (although "blue dot" tail lights on cruisers don't seem to be an issue).

The Hyper Lites are very legal, BTW. And mine have been working perfectly for 4 years, no issues.

[HispanicSlammer]

I dont think its worth the trouble honestly, there comes a time when the person behind you is too close having an idiot light might send them into a panic. I actually tend to use the rear brake all the time, just tapping lightly alot with very little pressure. I am also using the front brake - it is just the way I was trained in MSF but it bothers folks behind me to see the brake light comming on so much and they dont really see me slow down. I am - just as much as they, are cause I am not on the gas but I am so lite on the brake that only the light comes on and I slow up very little. - people found it annoying to see my lights come on and then not see me slow down - so I unplugged the rear brake light sensor. I think an engine brake light would just annoy people and it would be comming on and off all the time so much so that when you really do brake hard they are desensitized by it and dont react.

[elizilla]

What about DOT and legal ramifications?? Keep in mind that when it comes to indicators, especially the color of the lights, you cannot just do whatever you want. There are laws that spell out what the lights are supposed to do and when, be prepared for a "conversation" between yourself and your local law enforcement officer if there is any question about how your bike is acting!

Ehh, I have put hyperlites on several of my bikes. The LEDs flash whenever my brakes are on. I've had several police officers comment on them. All have said they are great, fantastic idea, etc. They don't seem to know or care that the hyperlites are breaking the DOT rules.

Most police officers have no more legal knowledge than the rest of us, outside of their certain narrow areas of interest. Motorcycle brakelights are not in that area of interest. They just make up the laws as they go along, using common sense and their gut feeling about whoever they're looking at. Common sense, well, it works almost all the time, and when it doesn't, the courts will straighten it out. Augmenting the brakelights in non-DOT but obviously safety-oriented ways (no extra colors) appeals to the common sense side of cops. Any cop that writes you for augmenting your brakelights isn't doing it because of the brakelights - they're doing it because they've decided you are a bad person, and they are reaching for something to write you for. In which case if it wasn't brakelights it would be something else.

The only people paying attention to whether you comply with DOT regs, are the ones who do inspections. If you live in a place with inspections. I don't, but it's my understanding they just test all those lights while the bike is sitting still. So they're not even going to notice the extra light-up.

So I say if you want to add a switch that will turn on your brakelights under engine braking, it's not worth worrying about what the cops will think, or about the DOT rules. Worry about whether it adds to your safety, worry about how to do it, sure. But the cops and the DOT? Nahhh.

[Rice]

Just use your brakes when you are coming to a stop. They're a lot cheaper to replace than the drive train and transmission parts you are stressing by down shifting to stop. I can't think of too many city braking situations where I have to use race style down shifts to stop for the red light etc. Don't give Honda anymore wild ideas for the next VFR.

+1

Brakes are cheap and VERY effective at slowing you down. Use them.

I mostly do hard engine braking when I'm approaching a twisty turn and want to be in the right gear for the exit. While commuting, I am simply using my brakes and downshift to match the speed only.

[marid2apterbilt]

Not to mention heavy engine braking really eats up tires fast..

Really? I have never hear of that before? I imagine it works over the rear tire - but does it work over the rear tire than..say if you are just using front and back brakes at the same time? I tend to ride in a style that is suited to the "pace" that is not so much brake and more or less off throttle before the turn, engine braking I suppose then on the gas as soon as I have set my lean angle as soon as possible. I am not a knee dragger either so I am not blazing into turns so fast either.

I rarely use my rear Brake, Mostly fronts only, @ hirevs and engine braking will eat a rear tire quickly, I have noticed this mainly on twisty roads like the gap. You can literallly Eat up a rear tire in no time engine braking when railing the twisties. @ 9 or 10000 rpms you might as well be standing on the rear brake pedal if your in 2nd or 3rd gear Closed throttle... Lower gearing has even more effect.. Almost like locking up the rear tire..

take my word for it Dont go fully closed throttle in 3rd gear 13000 rms, you wont like the feeling of the rear tire trying to slide around onn you..

[TimC]

Personally, I don't think adding an engine braking light is a great idea. As responsible riders, we should be keeping an eye on our mirrors at all times, and when there are cages/bikes behind us we need to let them know we're slowing down by tapping the brakes. I do the same thing in my car.

Like COS said above, I'm in the habit of 'tapping' my brakes to let following drivers/riders I'm slowing down gradually (i.e. engine braking). I let off or partly close the throttle, then hit the front lever very lightly a couple times. I only wish more drivers were attentive enough to be able to judge a change in speed without having to see brake lights.

OT...Big pet peeve: Drivers who believe their foot should be either on the gas or on the brake 100% of the time. It's like people forget they can coast. It's even more annoying in a traffic jam.

Back on topic...During group rides in the twisties I'll tap my front brake to let following riders know I'm slowing a bit ahead of a turn/curve. This is especially true when I'm leading the ride.

BTW, I've read that downshifting to slow down is less fuel efficient than simply engine braking/coasting, which makes sense to me. I still prefer to downshift at times to bleed off some speed.

[Axel_7]

I never ride slow enough to have somebody close enough behind me to worry about...

And when ridding in traffic you should always have your fingers on the brake lever anyway as

cages are to unpredicable.

[coderighter]

I think this thread has been hijacked, but I'd like to address a couple things

First, I was taught to always downshift when coming to a stop for 2 reasons. The first is so that you are always in a gear to accelerate quickly if the need a raises. The second being the nature of motorcycle transmissions are that it's really best that you engage all gears up and down. I've been told, pulling in the clutch and down shifting 4 or so gears without ever releasing the clutch between, is not the best thing for the tranny. Is this not true?

As far as installing a vacuum switch to light the brake light not being legal, how would they ever know that the brake light went on because of the vacuum switch or because you tapped the brake? All anyone would notice is that the bike slowed down and the taillight came on, makes sense to me. Why, in a world of people riding around with aftermarket pipes (most minus inserts), would they ever question what made the brake light come on when a motorcycle slowed down? :laugh:

So the question remains, but let me clairify. The switch would be set rather high. High enough so that you could close the throttle at 5 grand in 6th and there wouldn't be enough vacuum to close the switch, not alot of engine braking there. However, you close the throttle at 6 grand in 3rd, you're going to feel the engine braking and the bike will pull a greater vacuum closing the switch and lighting the "brake light". I'm not talking about having the light come on whenever you close the throttle, only when there's enough engine braking to compare to actually using the brakes. How could this be a bad thing?

[marid2apterbilt]

I think this thread has been hijacked, but I'd like to address a couple things

First, I was taught to always downshift when coming to a stop for 2 reasons. The first is so that you are always in a gear to accelerate quickly if the need a raises. The second being the nature of motorcycle transmissions are that it's really best that you engage all gears up and down. I've been told, pulling in the clutch and down shifting 4 or so gears without ever releasing the clutch between, is not the best thing for the tranny. Is this not true?

As far as installing a vacuum switch to light the brake light not being legal, how would they ever know that the brake light went on because of the vacuum switch or because you tapped the brake? All anyone would notice is that the bike slowed down and the taillight came on, makes sense to me. Why, in a world of people riding around with aftermarket pipes (most minus inserts), would they ever question what made the brake light come on when a motorcycle slowed down? :huh:

So the question remains, but let me clairify. The switch would be set rather high. High enough so that you could close the throttle at 5 grand in 6th and there wouldn't be enough vacuum to close the switch, not alot of engine braking there. However, you close the throttle at 6 grand in 3rd, you're going to feel the engine braking and the bike will pull a greater vacuum closing the switch and lighting the "brake light". I'm not talking about having the light come on whenever you close the throttle, only when there's enough engine braking to compare to actually using the brakes. How could this be a bad thing?

Sorry if I helped to the :laugh: But I do agree with you except for the setpoint for it to come on..

6Krpm is 6K no matter what gear your in the vacumn at closed throttle will be the same.

you could easily use a EGR valve off a car, attaching the switch to the exhaust gas bypass pin and using a vacumn line from just about anywhere on the motor to activate it.. Im not sure if they sell Adj vacumn swithches but a EGR valve should be easy to come by in a junk yard ($5 ?) and should already be somewhere close to the vacumn pressure you will need. Others might know more about the best way to do this or in your research..

[coderighter]

I think this thread has been hijacked, but I'd like to address a couple things

First, I was taught to always downshift when coming to a stop for 2 reasons. The first is so that you are always in a gear to accelerate quickly if the need a raises. The second being the nature of motorcycle transmissions are that it's really best that you engage all gears up and down. I've been told, pulling in the clutch and down shifting 4 or so gears without ever releasing the clutch between, is not the best thing for the tranny. Is this not true?

As far as installing a vacuum switch to light the brake light not being legal, how would they ever know that the brake light went on because of the vacuum switch or because you tapped the brake? All anyone would notice is that the bike slowed down and the taillight came on, makes sense to me. Why, in a world of people riding around with aftermarket pipes (most minus inserts), would they ever question what made the brake light come on when a motorcycle slowed down? :huh:

So the question remains, but let me clairify. The switch would be set rather high. High enough so that you could close the throttle at 5 grand in 6th and there wouldn't be enough vacuum to close the switch, not alot of engine braking there. However, you close the throttle at 6 grand in 3rd, you're going to feel the engine braking and the bike will pull a greater vacuum closing the switch and lighting the "brake light". I'm not talking about having the light come on whenever you close the throttle, only when there's enough engine braking to compare to actually using the brakes. How could this be a bad thing?

Sorry if I helped to the :laugh: But I do agree with you except for the setpoint for it to come on..

6Krpm is 6K no matter what gear your in the vacumn at closed throttle will be the same.

you could easily use a EGR valve off a car, attaching the switch to the exhaust gas bypass pin and using a vacumn line from just about anywhere on the motor to activate it.. Im not sure if they sell Adj vacumn swithches but a EGR valve should be easy to come by in a junk yard ($5 ?) and should already be somewhere close to the vacumn pressure you will need. Others might know more about the best way to do this or in your research..

Hummm.... I think you might be right about the vacuum levels, I might have to play around with it this weekend. I just need to find a set point that makes the light come on when the engine is acting in the same manner as brakes.

I all ready have an adjustable vacuum switch in mind. I'm currently using one to turn my Autotune off when I'm decelerating to prevent it from trying to correct the mixture under deceleration. It adjusts from 6in hg to 24 in hg.