Can Short People Get A Knee Down?

[cruzinaz]

That foot thing gets tougher if you have, let's say, size 13 feet... :blush:

:biggrin: :laugh: :laugh: :blink: :goofy: YES it does :goofy: :blush: :cool: :cool:

[Guest]

Alright, kinda goofy question here. And before I proceed, let me first state that I understand that getting a knee down is not really an indicator of speed or skill level or riding competence. However, that doesn't mean I don't wanna know what it feels like to rail with my knee kissing the tarmac.

Okay, now onto the question...I'll be taking my VFR to a trackday in October. This will be my second trackday but my first on the VFR. My first trackday back in June was done on my wife's SV650. In pictures I was close to getting a knee down, but her bike has been lowered and I was dragging pegs like crazy. With the VFR being a larger bike than the SV, what are my chances of getting a knee down? I'm 5'6". Bike is at stock height with, sadly, stock suspension. Sag is correct. Tires are Pirelli Diablos. Track is Barber Motorsports Park. Will it be physically impossible? Will I have to hang off like Tony Elias to make the magic happen?

(Jeremy) Has given all the keys to the magic of putting a knee down. I used to focus on body position all the time and it is 70% but that last little bit is foot position. You are mount to the bike not by your butt but rather by your feet. To put a knee down you ride on your feet not your butt and it’s your feet and legs that moves you back into the seat. The body is all connected and you can only move the upper half so far. But by positioning your feet correctly you end up not moving off the bike as far you think and it gives you room to adjust your line (turn in harder or go wider); study the photos of guys with a knee down, you'll see it.

He's also correct about hitting a reflector with the knee or toe, it hurts! Drive in deeper and stay away from the centerline of the road; there's no reflectors or a fender on car coming the other way.

It'll kind of scary the first time a knee hits. Scariest moment ever was a died squirrel, hit it with my knee and it came all the way up to chin.

Good luck!

[vfrrider17]

Jason DiSalvo.

Nuf, said.

[ericlw]

my key to putting my knee down is,i dont see the point on anything other then the track.

[Guest]

I'm 5'8" and have never been able to accomplish such a feat, especially on a motard with super high ground clearance. Oh yeah, I hit a reflector about a month ago, I thought I had seriously hurt my knee.

[VFR4Lee]

I've dragged the peg feelers on my VFR, dragged the pegs after I ditched the feelers.

Dragged the freakin' header pipe, before shimming the shock to raise the rear a tad.

Still, my knees never touch down. I'd blame the short inseam, but I guess that's thoroughly snoped. :biggrin:

All I really need is double knee pucks. :laugh:

You guys make sure to go back and listen to Bones Boogie. :blink: :laugh:

[Guest]

Scariest moment ever was a died squirrel, hit it with my knee and it came all the way up to chin.

Huh? :biggrin:

[VFR4Lee]

Scariest moment ever was a died squirrel, hit it with my knee and it came all the way up to chin.

Huh? :biggrin:

Knee hits squirrel, squirrel corpse hits chinbar, bloody mess falls in riders lap.

Angry Moose comes looking for flying squirrel.

OK, that's just my interpretation. :laugh:

[Guest]

Scariest moment ever was a died squirrel, hit it with my knee and it came all the way up to chin.

Huh? :biggrin:

Knee hits squirrel, squirrel corpse hits chinbar, bloody mess falls in riders lap.

Angry Moose comes looking for flying squirrel.

OK, that's just my interpretation. :laugh:

Moose never found me. :laugh:

[Trace]

You guys make sure to go back and listen to Bones Boogie. :blink: :biggrin:

Ahhh...you noticed that one, did you? It's been on my iPod for a few months!! :laugh: He really can play that geee-tar, can't he? :laugh:

[toddulu]

If my fat butt can do it, anyone can. Even per the OP's request, I'm on stock suspension and running Pirelli Diablos.

[YoshiHNS]

Good thing for this thread. I've been positioning my foot wrong this whole time. Think I've been pointing my foot down and in. Thought that was correct cause the slider is on the outside of the foot. Time to go practice some more.

[Das Bone]

You guys make sure to go back and listen to Bones Boogie. :goofy: :biggrin:

Ahhh...you noticed that one, did you? It's been on my iPod for a few months!! :laugh: He really can play that geee-tar, can't he? :laugh:

:blink:

Memo to self...don't forget to mail Tracy and Lee their check's

[Das Bone]

Good thing for this thread. I've been positioning my foot wrong this whole time. Think I've been pointing my foot down and in. Thought that was correct cause the slider is on the outside of the foot. Time to go practice some more.

:laugh: That's what these threads are all about IMHO :biggrin:

[timmythecop]

my key to putting my knee down is,i dont see the point on anything other then the track.

Its fun and when done properly, no more dangerous than anything else, but I agree it is largely un-needed. But fun.

[tyrroneous]

This thread has been full of great tips. So don't stop, keep 'em coming.

I think the foot position pictorial might be the biggest help to me. I don't think I've ever thought to point my foot perpindicular to the bike. Looking at some of the picture from my first track day, I can definitely hang off more and my upper body needs to be lower but I think the foot position will be the key.

[timmythecop]

sosmething that we omitted is the death grip. As gstated earlier, your downward/inside movement should be supported by your off-side leg. You should theoretically be able to take either hand of the bars with no real effect.

Its also what feels right for you and thats why 10 Moto GP guys do it 10 different ways. I have had to re-learn alot of stuff because whe I started to ride/race briskly, the bike absoluteley sucked in comparison to even a 5th gen VFR. The first bike I ever put a knee down on had a 120 BACK tyre. In those days, you had to pre hang off like randy mamola, do all you braking whilst upright, then muscle the thing to turn, then try to get upright as soon as possible. Even a porky VFR has enough modern sportbike in it to trail brake and stay calm at good lean angles.

The real secret is probably a good, constand radius corner that you trust and a bunch of passes. I thinks also that the attemt of dragging the puck takes over all 10 bucks of Kieth Code's budget for controling the bike and you are left with nothing to take the corner smothly or fast enough to get the lean angle you need.

And lastly, it really means nothing, because we arnt pro racers. There are a ton of guys here who have never put thier knee down that would smoke me on the street and the track and to the 7-11 for that matter. But it is fun.

[cbar]

Wow - and your toe doesn't drag? I've been playing with jamming the SOLE of my boot up against the bike to keep my toe from dragging (which it does sometimes even when I think I'm on the ball of my foot) - and that feels awkward as hell. And I don't even have big feet. Size 9. :laugh:

Frick'in Tracy :laugh:

:blush:

Your "second" comment....look where you want to go not where you're going...ya know :fing02:

Hehehe.....come to think of it, there's not a lot of difference in your (former) spandex pantz and your leathers...

:goofy: I know you lusted after that Spandex look :laugh:

Well, since we're getting more into the mechanics of the technique....foot position.

Completely agree with Jeremy as everything starts with foot position...if that's not right, the rest won't be either.

Here's a couple of foot pics(even on the VFR) that I shot for someone else here a while back to show what you're going for.

First pic is "basic" sport riding foot position, i.e. not cornering yet. Balls of the feet on the pegs with basically just your toes extending beyond the edge of the peg. This keeps you foot off the ground(clearance) and well as allowing you to have dexterity with peg input. Shot from the seated position looking down.

This shot is what Jeremy was describing with your heel and foot essentially being perpedicular to the bike. You always want to be set body-wise prior to corner entry so this is the point that you shift your foot position while simutaneously moving your body to the inside.

100_0465.JPG

100_0471.JPG

So, start with this(feets) first off :cool:

Oh yeah, as far as hitting bots dots markers in the road....yeah have hit them, even cracked one of my sliders once :laugh: You definitely know when you've hit one :cool: Mostly though it's just a matter of pulling your knee in a bit if you think you might be close...better to alter your lines to avoid getting that close :cool:

[sportrider]

Yes, you can do it, but I'd save it for the track, with a track bike. Learning the correct technique on a VFR can be awfully expensive when you toss it making mistakes, and down right dangerous if you hit some immoveable or oncoming object. Quite frankly, knee down is exploring the performance envelope, and there's not a lot of margin of error left when you try it. You must do a lot right, including proper entry speed, proper vision, relaxed grip, proper throttle control, and proper body position, to name a few, to make it through safely. I agree with what others have noted, the knee down achievement is more a result of riding correctly than a result you can force. Here's me after several CSS schools and open track days:

JER_3577.JPG

[Das Bone]

Wow - and your toe doesn't drag? I've been playing with jamming the SOLE of my boot up against the bike to keep my toe from dragging (which it does sometimes even when I think I'm on the ball of my foot) - and that feels awkward as hell. And I don't even have big feet. Size 9. :laugh:

Occassionally, but not very often really. Mainly happens, to me atleast, when there's a dip in the road while cornering or something along those lines.

Try moving your foot so that only about 2" hang over the edge of the peg. :fing02:

[cbar]

Wow - and your toe doesn't drag? I've been playing with jamming the SOLE of my boot up against the bike to keep my toe from dragging (which it does sometimes even when I think I'm on the ball of my foot) - and that feels awkward as hell. And I don't even have big feet. Size 9. :laugh:

Occassionally, but not very often really. Mainly happens, to me atleast, when there's a dip in the road while cornering or something along those lines.

Try moving your foot so that only about 2" hang over the edge of the peg. :fing02:

Thanks...maybe my toe is dragging because my foot isn't causing my knee to stick out far enough! That is, I'm over far enough to drag the knee but the toe is hitting first!

Need to get to an advanced track riding school to sort this out - on the insured class bike!

[soichiro]

Wow - and your toe doesn't drag? I've been playing with jamming the SOLE of my boot up against the bike to keep my toe from dragging (which it does sometimes even when I think I'm on the ball of my foot) - and that feels awkward as hell. And I don't even have big feet. Size 9. :laugh:

Occassionally, but not very often really. Mainly happens, to me atleast, when there's a dip in the road while cornering or something along those lines.

Try moving your foot so that only about 2" hang over the edge of the peg. :fing02:

Thanks...maybe my toe is dragging because my foot isn't causing my knee to stick out far enough! That is, I'm over far enough to drag the knee but the toe is hitting first!

Need to get to an advanced track riding school to sort this out - on the insured class bike!

I drag a toe slider almost every time I get my knee down. I have correct positioning of my foot but even if I put it against the frame the slider hits. I guess thats what it's for. My Astar boots are wider than the pegs so they the slider touches.

+1 on the death grip. The bars should be loosely grasped. Hold on with your legs.

[soichiro]

That foot thing gets tougher if you have, let's say, size 13 feet... :fing02:

And a whole lot more difficult if you have a nearly fused ankle. I have maybe 20-30% movement.

[timmythecop]

[Guest]

Scariest moment ever was a died squirrel, hit it with my knee and it came all the way up to chin.

Huh? :dry:

Knee hits squirrel, squirrel corpse hits chinbar, bloody mess falls in riders lap.

Angry Moose comes looking for flying squirrel.

OK, that's just my interpretation. :laugh:

. . . . . . . I forgot all about his moose buddy. :blink:

Best of my memory the moose wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer was he?