spud786 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) Ditto on the showa ss8 it is 10 weight , anything thats rebound adjustable OEM from showa is 5 weight on everything I've seen. Edited September 7, 2009 by spud786 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted September 7, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 7, 2009 The local Ohlins guru put some very slippery (and low viscosity) oil in, and told me that there is a huge difference between some of the oils being sold, and that as they don't necessarily follow the official standards, the numbers don't mean much. He's absolutely correct, the term "5wt" doesn't really mean much. For example, Silkolene 5wt is almost the same viscosity as Maxima 10wt. There is a measurement called centistokes (cSt) that suspension tuners use that allows us to compare fluids on equal ground. Jamie D....I think the key to your experience in your post is that your revalving the forks (I assume Racetech valves) Which from the many posts I have seen on revalve setups with racetech valves take much lower wt oils by design.. I install Ohlins and RaceTech valving and both use 5wt (15-16cSt) fluid, for whatever that is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Ditto on the showa ss8 it is 10 weight , anything thats rebound adjustable OEM from showa is 5 weight on everything I've seen. Stock oil per OEM manual for my fully adjustable F4i is Honda SS8 10w. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Sam, quick question? Whats on the rear? I ask this because if you still have a stock rear shock/spring it will have a major effect on what your feeling! If you have a different rear shock and correct rear spring than ignore this post, if not read this thread. :rolleyes: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/lofiver...php/t19943.html Turns out running a soft/stock rear spring with new stiffer screwed up feel on both ends because the stiff front transferred more weight to the already to soft rear making it feel worse and the stiffer front tended to bounce across many bumps and irregular surfaces instead of absorbing them. Felt fine on smooth roads and had greatly improve anti dive, but the rougher the road surface got the worse the front felt. :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gap Trash Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 I have some fork oil sitting around Sam, I'll see what weight it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marid2apterbilt Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 Sam, quick question?Whats on the rear? I ask this because if you still have a stock rear shock/spring it will have a major effect on what your feeling! If you have a different rear shock and correct rear spring than ignore this post, if not read this thread. :rolleyes: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/lofiver...php/t19943.html Turns out running a soft/stock rear spring with new stiffer screwed up feel on both ends because the stiff front transferred more weight to the already to soft rear making it feel worse and the stiffer front tended to bounce across many bumps and irregular surfaces instead of absorbing them. Felt fine on smooth roads and had greatly improve anti dive, but the rougher the road surface got the worse the front felt. :beer: Qouted from first post.. Current Bike setup..1.0kg sonic springs in OEM forks (All Stock) 18kg rear spring W/ CBR600F4I Rear shock. Rear shock Lengthened 3/8-+ inches for a total ride height increase of 1.5" (Cant go any higher with OEM parts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted September 7, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 7, 2009 Stock oil per OEM manual for my fully adjustable F4i is Honda SS8 10w. Interesting. Does it specify SS08 or does it just say "10wt"? Forks normally run fluid in the 15-16cSt range, the SS08 is 37cSt. That's boucous heavy. The stock F4i forks that I've used didn't seem to have that heavy of fluid in them. It would be interesting to know if that's really what comes in them new. I wonder if that's what is in my stock 1098 forks. That thing has way too much compression damping, something that I'm trying to sort out right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) Maxima ten weight is very very thin compared to ss8 , and both are supposed to be ten weights. Your right the weights seem to mean nothing from brand to brand. My experience, every time you switch oil brands, you create a completely different platform of fork action Edited September 7, 2009 by spud786 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted September 7, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) Maxima ten weight is very very thin compared to ss8 , and both are supposed to be ten weights. Your right the weights seem to mean nothing from brand to brand.My experience, every time you switch oil brands, you create a completely different platform of fork action Maxima 165/150 fork oil is 32cSt. It's pretty similar to the SS08 actually, especially when you consider they both are way too heavy. I don't ever run anything nearly this heavy in forks, only certain rear shock applications use fluid with this high of a viscosity. I guess the point that we are all trying to make is that fluid weight can make a big impact in the fork operation. Most valving applications have been designed around a certain fluid weight. Deviating from that puts you out on your own and you would have to work out the trial-and-error process for yourself! Edited September 7, 2009 by JamieDaugherty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Stock oil per OEM manual for my fully adjustable F4i is Honda SS8 10w. Interesting. Does it specify SS08 or does it just say "10wt"? Forks normally run fluid in the 15-16cSt range, the SS08 is 37cSt. That's boucous heavy. The stock F4i forks that I've used didn't seem to have that heavy of fluid in them. It would be interesting to know if that's really what comes in them new. I wonder if that's what is in my stock 1098 forks. That thing has way too much compression damping, something that I'm trying to sort out right now. Specifies SS8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Turns out running a soft/stock rear spring with new stiffer screwed up feel on both ends because the stiff front transferred more weight to the already to soft rear making it feel worse and the stiffer front tended to bounce across many bumps and irregular surfaces instead of absorbing them. Felt fine on smooth roads and had greatly improve anti dive, but the rougher the road surface got the worse the front felt. :cool: I discovered that last week, before I sent my forks back. At first I thought, "Yup - Robert (the suspension expert) is right: these forks are too firm". Then further into my ride, I realised that the back end wasn't set up quite right, and was probably making the front end feel worse. So, I adjusted the rear a bit, and eventually got things working pretty well together. However (but!) a bit more tweaking to see if I could get it even more betterer, and I'd stuffed it up. More tweaking still, and being really tired after a couple of hours riding (haven't done any decent rides for a very long time) and it was even crappier than it started out. Maxima ten weight is very very thin compared to ss8 , and both are supposed to be ten weights. Your right the weights seem to mean nothing from brand to brand. Yeah, that's what Robert said too: when you actually test the oils with a viscometer, the stated 'weight' is pretty much bogus. It also has little to do with engine oils' stated viscosities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB-Oz Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 As a data point: I've been using 7.5wt fork oil in my sp2 forks, 120mm air gap, springs are 1kg. Just about to fit my Ohlins valves to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted September 8, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 8, 2009 As a data point:I've been using 7.5wt fork oil in my sp2 forks, 120mm air gap, springs are 1kg. Just about to fit my Ohlins valves to them... You'll want to use 5wt fluid with a viscosity of 15cSt with the Ohlins valves. I use Honda Pro Oils 5wt but there are several others that work as well. Let me know what you are planning to use and I can double check it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marid2apterbilt Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 A few more questions for thoswe with more knowledge than I.. BR, Seb, JD and any others.. BR.. In a linked post you went to a .95kg front and 19kg rear springs.. Would my 1.0kg front and 18kg rear setup (per racetech) cause handling issues with the front, Reccomendations ? The front does like to slip at the exit of a turn while on the Gas, Usually when coming out of a Knee dragging angle.. SEB and Jamie.. or who ever else.. I recently found some info that detailed the teardown of OEM valves, As I have not done this to any of mine yet this is still basically theroretical.. I also found a site that sells Suspension valve shims. http://mx-tech.com/?id=products&cat=12 My theory is to add a few Shims to the Rebound stack only. But with no experience I have no idea where to start with size or how many... Also after 4 hrs of Google pages I couldnt find any info on where to start with shim sizes etc... even ttried to find a shim stack calculator but couldnt find one... Can anyonne reccomend a Shim stack configuration using Oem valves and 10wt oil and 1.0 Kg front springs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I finally got my forks back yesterday morning (after rushing them off last Tuesday, only to have them sit in the workshop for a week :biggrin: ), and installed them last night. CKT (the suspension people) replaced my 0.95kg/mm Sonic springs with 0.90 Ohlins ones; if these are too firm, then it's a free swap for some 0.85s. They also rejigged the damping, but I don't know quite what this entailed (probably modified shim stack), and put fresh Ohlins fork oil in, made from cold-pressed BabyAfghani FurSealWhalePeguins (we... it ought to be, at NZ$52/litre, which is not much less than 4litres of engine oil costs me). I haven't yet ridden the bike, or even checked the sag, as the weather is crappy today, and I'm too tired to ride safely. A full report will follow once I've tested them and dialed in the Elka, which is now mounted on the left rear footpeg bracket, so I can get at the compression damping dial easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted September 11, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) Can anyonne reccomend a Shim stack configuration using Oem valves and 10wt oil and 1.0 Kg front springs ? Trying to reshim using the stock valves is not advisable. The stock valve pistons have too much high speed damping because of their restrictive flow characteristics. The stock rebound valves can be used with an adjustment to the stack, but you really need to replace the compression valves for best performance. Shoot me a PM with your weight and I can make some suggestions for you. Edited September 11, 2009 by JamieDaugherty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marid2apterbilt Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 The comp seem fine its the Rebound that I really woould like to adjust some... Pm sent.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB-Oz Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 You'll want to use 5wt fluid with a viscosity of 15cSt with the Ohlins valves. I use Honda Pro Oils 5wt but there are several others that work as well. Let me know what you are planning to use and I can double check it for you. Hey Jamie, I used Motul Factory Line 7.5wt last time. The bike shop nearby also has 5wt, but no mention of the cST rating? Any ideas? [edit] just found this very useful chart on the Motul site: Oil viscosity chart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted September 13, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 13, 2009 You'll want to use 5wt fluid with a viscosity of 15cSt with the Ohlins valves. I use Honda Pro Oils 5wt but there are several others that work as well. Let me know what you are planning to use and I can double check it for you. Hey Jamie, I used Motul Factory Line 7.5wt last time. The bike shop nearby also has 5wt, but no mention of the cST rating? Any ideas? [edit] just found this very useful chart on the Motul site: Oil viscosity chart Thanks for the link. My chart lists dozens of oils but only shows the Motul 2.5w and 5w grades. One of the nice things about the Motul fluid is the small change between grades, as you can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marid2apterbilt Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 Reshimmed the stock valves today but I have kinda hit a wall so to speak.. 1 fork when compressed and the adj rod turned all the way to full hard shows that it is working as you can see it returns rather slowly. The other fork seems a little stiffer on the return but nowhere near like the first. I have torn this fork down 3 times and put it back together but cant seem to find the problem.. I am more than positive that the shim stacks on both are identical, Checked them with a digital caliper twice.. Im stumped..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thx1139 Posted September 16, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 16, 2009 ... I used Motul Factory Line 7.5wt last time. The bike shop nearby also has 5wt, but no mention of the cST rating? Any ideas? check the Mother Of All Viscosity Charts found on this informative Website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 So dragging this out of the annals.... Does it matter if the internals are F4... or F4i.... that is ¿what year model must they be from to gain rebound adjustment in 6th gen vfr800 forks? I'm keeping the lowers as I'm too lazy (don't have access to proper working space) to have to fiddle with the brakes (lose the LBS), What valves and shims and so forth should I get and what configuration should I install them in to make the appropriate improvements in hydraulic action to make this worth doing??? I'm in the south of Spain and looking at slightly bent forks to save on costs. This must be easy on the wallet for me to take on the project. Jamie Daugherty I see you have a wealth of knowledge on the mattter and figure you do this stuff for a living... you're too far away for me to make use of your services but if you or anyone else were to whisper some advice in my ear (ie MP me) I would be eternally grateful. I understand this is probably like asking a chef for his secret recipe, but I'm a DIY kind of person and will eventually work it out for myself... trial and error etc... the great thing about VFRD and my local Spanish forum is the generous sharing of knowledge... I have been known to write up how-tos on ClubVFRSpain. So here's hoping that what goes around comes around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Ok I finally got all the parts sorted that I needed and a few mods along the way.. First off the parts you will need from a Honda CBR F4/F4I.. Fork Cap Rebound valve and adj/connector rod. Yes that is all you need, you dont need the F4 Catridge tube, Just everything associated with the F4 rebound.... OK... there's no such thing as a stupid question right... Can those in the know let me know which of these part numbers are the: - Cartridge tube - Rebound valve - Adj/connector rod That is to say... which numbers in this blow-up diagram do I need from the F4(i)?? Obviously 14 is the fork cap. But part no. 11 isn't displayed in a blown-out fashion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 11, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2015 1 DAMPER, FR.51430-MBW-E11 $208.11 $147.65 2 This one ? or 2 I should say . http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2001/CBR600F4+AC/FRONT+FORK/parts.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanyol Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Yes switchblade that is where I got the blow-up diagram I posted earlier. What I'm asking is which numbers are the OP and JD referring to when they use the following terms: - Cartridge tube - Rebound valve - Adj/connector rod I figure they are all in number 11 yet this part doesn't come separated in the microfiche Edited October 12, 2015 by Auspanyol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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