A Must Read Before Installing A Speed Correcter On '06-'09 (6.5 Gen)

[coderighter]

In 2006, Honda made changes engine management in order to meet Euro-3 emissions regulations. Everyone knows about the changes to the VTEC on and off points but they also made other changes. One changes made to help pass emissions was to make fueling changes depending on gear. The ECM determines the gear by comparing the output shaft speed to engine RPM. Keep in mind the ratios between gears get smaller as you work you way to 6th.

Now, if you change your sprockets and do nothing to fix the speedo, then the relationship between output shaft and RPM has not changed and all is well. However, if you add a speed correcter, you've changed the relationship. Once you get to a certain amount of correction, you're going to have a problem. I've checked with several members with '06-'08 bikes and the tipping point seems to be about -10% and above (more negative number). At that point when you go from 2nd to 3rd, the ECM thinks you went to 4th. When this happens the bike runs very bad a light throttle, surges really bad. I have a '06 and currently have a PCV with Autotune and I know from looking at the data when I download, 4th gear at light throttle, is very lean. I'm guessing it's an emission testing area.

Also, I should note that altering the speed signal before it goes into the ECM might affect the ABS system. I don't know this for sure but I think it should be a concern. After all you paid $1000 for ABS, it would be a shame to "break" it with a speed convertor. Again, I don't know this for sure. If anybody does, please let us know.

If you what your speedo to read correct, not all hope is lost. I have done the research and can tell you how to make your corrector work. I'm not going to go into the details because there are a couple different correctors out there, but here's the theory.

The speed signal is taken off the output sprocket with the speed sensor. There is a pigtail off the sensor with a connector that's in the bundle with the O2 sensors. It's at this connector that the speed corrector will intercept the signal, alter it, then send it on it's way like nothing happened. The signal then travels up the side of the bike just inside the frame to the steering head, just under the tank, where there is a factory splice. The signal now has two legs, one goes to the ECM, and the other to the gauge cluster. The gauge cluster wire goes through a gray connector on the left side of the bike behind the side cover, just before the fairing. It's right next to a blue one, you can't miss it. The wire that your looking for is the pink one.

Note: My bike is ABS so if yours isn't, you won't see the valve on the right of the picture.

Speedo Correction Wiring, left fairing. New wire attached to the pink lead going into grey connector

The object is to, at the sensor plug, split the signal. Send one feed to the "stock" signal bike wire so it gets to the ECM, then send the other feed to the input of the speed corrector. Next, extend the corrector output to the pink wire just before it goes into the gray connector. You must cut the pink wire, connect the extended wire to the pink wire before it goes into the connector. The other end of the pink wire most be protected from water and metal contact since it still has the "stock" signal on it. Liquid tape works good for this. You'll will have to look at how your corrector connects to determine which is the input and which is the output. Also keep in mind most correctors I looked at also power the power from the speed sensor to power the corrector. If you need help figuring out the wiring for your corrector, PM me with the model info and I'll figure it out for you.

Speedo Correction Wiring at sensor plug location.

Speedo Correction Good mounting location.

Again, need help, PM me.

[turtlecreek]

glad you figured out what the issue was on your bike. i have an older model with speedohealer, so never saw the reaction you were seeing.

i would not "think" ABS would be impacted as ABS is a relationship between the two tires' speed and is based off of the ABS ring sensor sending back a pulse. it should not care what speed the ecu thinks the bike is going as long as the two tires' speeds are the same....but i could be wrong. :wub:

nice write up too!

[Guest Buttonhook]

I have not noticed an issue on my 07 and I have -18.5% correction as I corrected the factory error as well.

Having said that I can confirm that the ECU is reading the speed from the sending unit. I had the connection for the speedohealer come lose which turned off the speedo and my FI light came on and went into limp mode.

Also it you have access to a dyno you could check this but just switching between the A and B modes on your healer.

BTW I have the ABS also and I've tripped it and it still works perfectly....so I dont think thats a worry. The Abs reads the speed of each wheel and if it detects a difference then it trips. The only thing "might" be it doen't avtivate until sooner or later due to the 6 mph threshold

Question could you not just correct this with a PCV or PCIII?

Edited July 20, 2009 by Buttonhook

[coderighter]

I have not noticed an issue on my 07 and I have -18.5% correction as I corrected the factory error as well.

Having said that I can confirm that the ECU is reading the speed from the sending unit. I had the connection for the speedohealer come lose which turned off the speedo and my FI light came on and went into limp mode.

Also it you have access to a dyno you could check this but just switching between the A and B modes on your healer.

BTW I have the ABS also and I've tripped it and it still works perfectly....so I dont think thats a worry. The Abs reads the speed of each wheel and if it detects a difference then it trips. The only thing "might" be it doen't avtivate until sooner or later due to the 6 mph threshold

Question could you not just correct this with a PCV or PCIII?

This seems really strange because I've talked (typed) to several people with '06-'08 with speed correctors and they all have had this same problem.

Try this. In a res area, at 4000 rpm shift into 3rd and give it real light throttle. If you can find a slight downhill, the kind where you just have crack the throttle, better yet. After you do this, zero out the speedohealer, and try it again. I'm pretty sure that you're going to really notice a problem. If you don't please let me know, you'd be the first.

Alot of people don't ever let the RPM get that low, so they don't notice the problem. I came from riding a ZRX1200 and I'm used to sneaking through the neighborhood at low RPM, it had tons of low end power.

I didn't have a the PCV back then and the PCIII doesn't have separate gear maps. When I made the PCIII rich enough to "fix" the problem, it made the throttle "dead" at light throttle cruise in 4th, 5th and 6th.

Like I said, I'm not sure about the ABS but I know it checks wheel speed against bike speed when you first move after starting. I'm not sure if this is the only time or not, but wired the way I've talked about above will make sure that the corrector is not causing any problem. I'm thinking "better save than sorry".

[Guest Buttonhook]

ok i'll try it.

[Guest Canner]

Fascinating, help me out here though, I dropped a tooth in front and am running about a -11.1 correction to adjust for the gear AND the manufacturer's offset (typically -5.6). If I just adjust for the gear change at -6.5%, do I manage to avoid triggering this ECU issue. I would think the ECU would need to have significant forgiveness in its gear calculation for mere tire wear. From new to bare you can lose 3-4%.

I can certainly live with the manufacturer's built in error knowing I have only adjusted for my gear adjustment (-6.6%) and avoid triggering this condition versus a lot of futzing with the harness. Will this work?

[coderighter]

ok i'll try it.

Thinking about it, I found my problem when I corrected for -1 in front. I had a correction of -11.8 (gear to error). The other people that either had this problem or I convinced to test for me, all were in the -11 to -12 window. You're at -18.5 which might make your gear error different. Keep in mind the difference between ratios gets smaller as you go up gears. You may going from 1st to 2nd with the bike thinking you're in 3rd. With the greater correction, you'd be hitting the tipping point earlier. Looking at my data, the difference between 2nd and 3rd in low RPM / light throttle is very small, if any. I was dealing difference between 3rd and 4th which is a pretty big change when looking at that same map window.

If don't find the problem @-18.5, could you please try -12. Thanks for adding to the info exchanged here.

[VFR4Lee]

Another reason to just keep doing fuzzy math in my head as I ride.

Subtract 10 or 15% from indicated speed. :fing02:

I'm still waiting for an "opportunity" to try it as an excuse for speeding.

I'm not sure how fast I was going, officer. This dang speedometer isn't accurate...... :happy:

[coderighter]

Fascinating, help me out here though, I dropped a tooth in front and am running about a -11.1 correction to adjust for the gear AND the manufacturer's offset (typically -5.6). If I just adjust for the gear change at -6.5%, do I manage to avoid triggering this ECU issue. I would think the ECU would need to have significant forgiveness in its gear calculation for mere tire wear. From new to bare you can lose 3-4%.

I can certainly live with the manufacturer's built in error knowing I have only adjusted for my gear adjustment (-6.6%) and avoid triggering this condition versus a lot of futzing with the harness. Will this work?

The gear calculation is taken between engine RPM and output shaft speed. The change in tire size will change your overland speed compared to your speedo but will have no effect on what the ECU sees as speed, which isn't really your over land speed, just the speed of the output shaft.

6.6% will more the error up in the gears, but I'm not sure if it's enough to make the ECU think you went to 6th when really you went to 5th. Best bet, rewire it.

Somewhere there is math to firgure this out. Maybe I'll get a chance next week. My PCV uses the same method to figure gears, maybe I'll rewire it to get feed after the speedohealer and play with it and find out what the points of tripping really are for each gear change.

[SilverVee]

ABS triggers at a specified difference in speed between the front and rear tires.

Front tire speed detected by the sensor ring will always be in the same ratio to

ground speed with some variation due to tire circumference and related wear.

Rear tire ground speed is detected at the drive sprocket sensor and will vary in

direct proportion to sprocket changes.

How much effect this will have on the VFR ABS is not known. If the ABS triggers at

'near' lockup (Bonneville SSEi) the effect is likely negligible.

Haven't had a chance to do the +11% check on my 05 yet, it is running well

with a 7% correction.

(finally finished the #@%%&* roof, more time for ole Silver now)

Adrian

[coderighter]

ABS triggers at a specified difference in speed between the front and rear tires.

Front tire speed detected by the sensor ring will always be in the same ratio to

ground speed with some variation due to tire circumference and related wear.

Rear tire ground speed is detected at the drive sprocket sensor and will vary in

direct proportion to sprocket changes.

How much effect this will have on the VFR ABS is not known. If the ABS triggers at

'near' lockup (Bonneville SSEi) the effect is likely negligible.

Haven't had a chance to do the +11% check on my 05 yet, it is running well

with a 7% correction.

(finally finished the #@%%&* roof, more time for ole Silver now)

Adrian

I've had a couple people with '04's report no problem. Seems that map-by-gear didn't start 'til '06, through you'd be the first '05 to report. Please use -12 (note negative, not positive) if you could please.

By the way, my '06 has a rear wheel speed sensor attached to the rear disc. Your '05 doesn't have one? Hummm

[Guest Buttonhook]

ok I didn't notice anything unusal at 3000-4000 rpm's however I did notice something wierd at like 5900. It's like it runs out of gas for just a second. so it might be running really lean there.

[SilverVee]

ABS triggers at a specified difference in speed between the front and rear tires.

Front tire speed detected by the sensor ring will always be in the same ratio to

ground speed with some variation due to tire circumference and related wear.

Rear tire ground speed is detected at the drive sprocket sensor and will vary in

direct proportion to sprocket changes.

How much effect this will have on the VFR ABS is not known. If the ABS triggers at

'near' lockup (Bonneville SSEi) the effect is likely negligible.

Haven't had a chance to do the +11% check on my 05 yet, it is running well

with a 7% correction.

(finally finished the #@%%&* roof, more time for ole Silver now)

Adrian

I've had a couple people with '04's report no problem. Seems that map-by-gear didn't start 'til '06, through you'd be the first '05 to report. Please use -12 (note negative, not positive) if you could please.

By the way, my '06 has a rear wheel speed sensor attached to the rear disc. Your '05 doesn't have one? Hummm

Well paint my face RED :wheel: just went outside (nice and cool finally) crawled under old Silver and there they were

hydraulic lines and a jacketed set of sensor wires going to you guessed it, a sensor and ring. soooo.

Looks like there would be no interaction between the speedo healer and ABS since data is read

at the wheels for the ABS.

Ok like you said minus 12 (that's what I meant to say)

Edited July 22, 2009 by SilverVee

[coderighter]

ok I didn't notice anything unusal at 3000-4000 rpm's however I did notice something wierd at like 5900. It's like it runs out of gas for just a second. so it might be running really lean there.

Running-out-of-gas is a good way of describing the problem. It would seem that the increased correction that you're running (-18.50) moved it to a higher RPM, or? Try setting it to zero and see what happens.

[coderighter]

Well paint my face RED :fing02: just went outside (nice and cool finally) crawled under old Silver and there they were

hydraulic lines and a jacketed set of sensor wires going to you guessed it, a sensor and ring. soooo.

Looks like there would be no interaction between the speedo healer and ABS since data is read

at the wheels for the ABS.

Ok like you said minus 12 (that's what I meant to say)

I did crack open the service manual and it does show a input of bike speed to ABS but it doesn't show lack of signal as being a error that will trip the ABS trouble light. It would seem that it only uses this input to trigger the self test.

[Guest ericlee]

why does the ecu map by gear?i dont understand why you would do that.

[Guest Canner]

So I did used a gearing calculator to create the RPM to Speed calculation chart for stock and then down a tooth. Indeed at a 10 to 11 % difference, you hit a point where the rpm to output shaft results in a match that would indicate a higher gear.

Up to about 6-7% the difference is so small there's no way the output shaft to RPM map in the ECU would get the gear assumption wrong by looking at the speed calculation (its only off 2-3 kilometers at the most).

I added a PC III but still noticed a little surging in third gear at 4-5K on sustained riding with a light throttle. My speedohealer correction was set at -11.1, I stopped compensating for the factory offset and set it to -6.2 just for the gear change I did. Its perfect now. I suspect the mapping that Honda added in 2006 onwards already compensated for the factory offset. So if the ECU is already applying a -6.7 for fuel map adjustment purposes and I set it to -11.1, its really now at -17.8 which would definitely through off the ECU's gear calculation.

Anyways, the new setting works great, so no rewiring for me, I am not a big fan of hard wiring permanent changes, I suggest if anyone does do this they add plug splices so they can easily remove the speed corrector without getting out the soldering gun again.

BTW IF the ABS was dependent on the output shaft signal, the ABS light would come on when you disconnect the sensor.

[Guest Buttonhook]

ok i'll try it.

Thinking about it, I found my problem when I corrected for -1 in front. I had a correction of -11.8 (gear to error). The other people that either had this problem or I convinced to test for me, all were in the -11 to -12 window. You're at -18.5 which might make your gear error different. Keep in mind the difference between ratios gets smaller as you go up gears. You may going from 1st to 2nd with the bike thinking you're in 3rd. With the greater correction, you'd be hitting the tipping point earlier. Looking at my data, the difference between 2nd and 3rd in low RPM / light throttle is very small, if any. I was dealing difference between 3rd and 4th which is a pretty big change when looking at that same map window.

If don't find the problem @-18.5, could you please try -12. Thanks for adding to the info exchanged here.

I will when I change the fairings

[Guest kostasdirt]

THANK YOU! I have the same problem and now all ok! Thanks again for your post :ph34r: :blink:

[Terminex]

THANK YOU! I have the same problem and now all ok! Thanks again for your post :cool: :unsure:

I have the speedo healer, and the gear indicator on an 07 with ABS. I am running at -7.9%, but have not noticed the problem.

I have been considering getting a PCV.

I will have to watch the response more closely now in the LOW RPM range.

[coderighter]

THANK YOU! I have the same problem and now all ok! Thanks again for your post :cool: :unsure:

I have the speedo healer, and the gear indicator on an 07 with ABS. I am running at -7.9%, but have not noticed the problem.

I have been considering getting a PCV.

I will have to watch the response more closely now in the LOW RPM range.

I think you'll be ok at -7.9%. Doesn't seem to be a big enough error until you get to -10 or so, but let me know if you find something.

[Guest warnabrother]

thanks to coderighter for this write up.. helped me lots with my install..

and BTW, for those that don't buy the Speedohealer harness and decide to solder the wires for power, ground and signal in.. the BLACK wire is power NOT GROUND..

I found out the hard way.. :blink: :blink: I was too lazy to get off my ass and get the mulitmeter and ASSUMED the black was ground.. and yes, I let a little smoke out the speed sensor :blink: :biggrin:

[Infidel]

0801101241d.jpg

0801101241c.jpg

0801101241b.jpg

0801101241a.jpg

OK... here is my question. Let's start at the top. Do I have the right speedohealer? lol.

Next, The pigtail that comes from the Speedohealer has two sides. Can you assist me in exactly what I am supposed to do with both sides? The write up is pretty good, I just want to be exact in what I am doing. I am not teh best electrical guy so I get nervous on electrical jobs.

Next, I have this spiral wire going behind the instrument cluster as you can see it wrapped up. (the excess) am i supposed to leave that connected or disconnect?

Next, is that the connector I am supposed to splice in to up top?

Any additional advice you can give me based on my bike and pics would be great. I have an 07 btw. What guage wire did you use? some of those wires seem awful thin.

Thank you sir.

[coderighter]

0801101241d.jpg

0801101241c.jpg

0801101241b.jpg

0801101241a.jpg

OK... here is my question. Let's start at the top. Do I have the right speedohealer? lol.

Next, The pigtail that comes from the Speedohealer has two sides. Can you assist me in exactly what I am supposed to do with both sides? The write up is pretty good, I just want to be exact in what I am doing. I am not teh best electrical guy so I get nervous on electrical jobs.

Next, I have this spiral wire going behind the instrument cluster as you can see it wrapped up. (the excess) am i supposed to leave that connected or disconnect?

Next, is that the connector I am supposed to splice in to up top?

Any additional advice you can give me based on my bike and pics would be great. I have an 07 btw. What guage wire did you use? some of those wires seem awful thin.

Thank you sir.

Well, it appears you have the right Speedohealer.

Unfortunately I'm on vacation and not near the bike and/or the manual for the Speedohealer. I don't have all the wiring memorized, have to get back to you when I return in a couple weeks. Since you have the manual and bike available, is there someone you could bounce the info in this post off of?

[Infidel]

EDIT: Figured it out. Thanks for the help.