Just Springs?

[ScottC]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking to buy a set of springs from Sonic Springs for my 5th gen. I want to get the RaceTech valves too, but budget doesn't allow both right now. Is there any value to putting in just the springs now and doing the valves later? Or is that asking for trouble. Don't want to cross the streams, you know. I assume a change of oil weight is in order with the heavier springs. There will be some duplication of effort too, I'm not worried about that.

Thanks

Scott

[Baileyrock]

Hey Scott, YES, it is worth just doing springs! It's a very easy job that shouldn't take more than 30 min. max. :cool:

Just do it, the correct springs are the Foundation that any decent suspension is built on!

[jeremy556]

If you weigh more than 130lbs, go ahead and change the springs without revalving if you can't revalve at the same time. As far as changing oil weight, much of the conventional wisdom I have read over the years seems to be wrong according to what some knowledgeable guys who make a living at doing suspension and my own observations have told me. I would stick to within 2.5wt of stock with stock valving. If you start putting in heavy ass oil, you will have way too much damping, which while reducing or eliminating dive during braking, which seems like a good thing, is actually not. Too much damping which will cause your front tire to bounce off the ground instead of compress the suspension which will reduce traction, obviously.

Brake dive is a good thing. You are transferring the majority of the weight of the rider and bike onto the front wheel, so there is close to 100% more than normal weight on the front end, and the dive makes it easier/faster to transfer the weight to achieve maximum traction and braking force.

[Guest TMJ1967]

By all means yes! I put a set of straight weight springs in and figured that I will do the gold valves next time I service the fork oil, which will probably be next spring. The fork springs are without a doubt the best money I have spent yet.

[johnmark101]

Do it........the stock springs are pretty soft. A stiffer set of springs matched to your weight will make the bike feel more planted on corner entry. I upgraded my suspension last winter. I feel much more confidence in the VFR on twisty roads as a result.

[JamieDaugherty]

As if you needed another opinion - yes, springs by themselves is an improvement. Any suspension setup assumes that the proper spring rates have already been installed. I'd suggest getting the correct spring rates on both ends before tackling the damping.

Run 5w fluid even with the higher rate springs, heavier fluid will not really help the performance.

[KanadianKen]

Hey Scott, YES, it is worth just doing springs! It's a very easy job that shouldn't take more than 30 min. max. :cool:

Just do it, the correct springs are the Foundation that any decent suspension is built on!

Took me a little more than 30 minutes, but I'm used to being the one HOLDING the flashlight!!

Seriously - I just replaced my fork springs this afternoon. Couple things I'll offer up:

1) get a piece of mechanics wire about 12" long and make a hook on the one end - you'll need this to fish out the top washer and actual spring - if you aren't removing the shocks from the bike. (I swapped my spring out with the shock in place).

2) spacer. Racetech includes a long tube in their kits - and its there for you to cut a longer spacer if you need it. I had to make two spacers for my bike - but a hacksaw and a file to clean up the edges worked fine.

3) beer. Stick to beer for this job - if you go straight to the Whickey - it might be a little scary on that test flight tomorrow.

4) Set the Sag. Slammer has a great trick - get the bike on the centre stand - attach a zip tie to the fork just above the grease seal. Take the bike off the stand - sit on it with full weight then measure the distance the zip tie moved. Adjust the tension - and you should be good to go.

5) test flight - then hit the whiskey !!

[jeremy556]

2) spacer. Racetech includes a long tube in their kits - and its there for you to cut a longer spacer if you need it. I had to make two spacers for my bike - but a hacksaw and a file to clean up the edges worked fine.

The Racetech springs are shorter than the stock springs, so you will definitely need to make a new spacer. A tubing cutter works well as well :fing02:

[SEBSPEED]

1) get a piece of mechanics wire about 12" long and make a hook on the one end - you'll need this to fish out the top washer and actual spring - if you aren't removing the shocks from the bike. (I swapped my spring out with the shock in place).

WTF is this "mechanics wire" you speak of?? Is that like a coat hanger or something? Can't you just use your finger? (I imagine you are using your middle finger by now...) :beer:

And yeah, a pipe cutter works great! :cool:

Love ya Ken! :fing02:

[KanadianKen]

1) get a piece of mechanics wire about 12" long and make a hook on the one end - you'll need this to fish out the top washer and actual spring - if you aren't removing the shocks from the bike. (I swapped my spring out with the shock in place).

WTF is this "mechanics wire" you speak of?? Is that like a coat hanger or something? Can't you just use your finger? (I imagine you are using your middle finger by now...) :goofy:

And yeah, a pipe cutter works great! :cool:

Love ya Ken! :laugh:

I could use my finger if it were about 10 inches long - how do you pull the spring out with the fork still attached to the bike?

Shit - a pipe cutter would have been the way to do it - damn - stupid me.....

[SEBSPEED]

1) get a piece of mechanics wire about 12" long and make a hook on the one end - you'll need this to fish out the top washer and actual spring - if you aren't removing the shocks from the bike. (I swapped my spring out with the shock in place).

WTF is this "mechanics wire" you speak of?? Is that like a coat hanger or something? Can't you just use your finger? (I imagine you are using your middle finger by now...) :goofy:

And yeah, a pipe cutter works great! :cool:

Love ya Ken! :goofy:

I could use my finger if it were about 10 inches long - how do you pull the spring out with the fork still attached to the bike?

Shit - a pipe cutter would have been the way to do it - damn - stupid me.....

Push up on the front wheel. Actually, I've never done them with the forks in the bike. I was just hoping to lure you into some kind of "pull your finger out" comeback that I could play off of... :cool:

[KanadianKen]

1) get a piece of mechanics wire about 12" long and make a hook on the one end - you'll need this to fish out the top washer and actual spring - if you aren't removing the shocks from the bike. (I swapped my spring out with the shock in place).

WTF is this "mechanics wire" you speak of?? Is that like a coat hanger or something? Can't you just use your finger? (I imagine you are using your middle finger by now...) :goofy:

And yeah, a pipe cutter works great! :cool:

Love ya Ken! :laugh:

I could use my finger if it were about 10 inches long - how do you pull the spring out with the fork still attached to the bike?

Shit - a pipe cutter would have been the way to do it - damn - stupid me.....

Push up on the front wheel. Actually, I've never done them with the forks in the bike. I was just hoping to lure you into some kind of "pull your finger out" comeback that I could play off of... :goofy:

Again - stupid me. Never thought to push up on the front wheel. That woulda likely worked. See - for the benefit of all - I take the "Dumb" award! However - the mechanics wire worked like a charm, I'd do it the same again next time.

Oh - and you really don't want to pull my finger, it might be complete devastation to your youthful soul.....

:beer:

[jeremy556]

1) get a piece of mechanics wire about 12" long and make a hook on the one end - you'll need this to fish out the top washer and actual spring - if you aren't removing the shocks from the bike. (I swapped my spring out with the shock in place).

WTF is this "mechanics wire" you speak of?? Is that like a coat hanger or something? Can't you just use your finger? (I imagine you are using your middle finger by now...) :goofy:

And yeah, a pipe cutter works great! :cool:

Love ya Ken! :goofy:

I could use my finger if it were about 10 inches long - how do you pull the spring out with the fork still attached to the bike?

Shit - a pipe cutter would have been the way to do it - damn - stupid me.....

You could use a 10 inch long finger for a lot of things. :cool:

If the fork caps are off and forks are compressed, the springs shouldn't be too far inside the tubes. I always just use a set of needlenose pliers.

[enzed_viffer]

My experience with stiffer fork springs was different. After I fitted the Elka rear shock, I found the soft front end was kinda overwhelmed by the rear suspension - they felt totally mismatched. So, I ordered some 0.95 kg/mm springs (maybe a trifle too stiff) from Sonic Springs. The front end felt REALLY bouncy and underdamped, so I siphoned out some of the new oil (Motorex 10W) and put in some heavier oil (Motul 20W). This helped things a bit. However (but!) because the front damper valves ports are - according to the Ohlins suspension expert who's currently overhauling my forks - too small and flow oil too slowly, the action on compression was harsh. On rebound it was better'n it was, but still not good. This was a result of a much stiffer spring overwhelming damping components that were both inadequate and kinda worn out.

But (however!) as others have said, the springs DO improve the ride over bumps, and the handling, crap damping or not. It's a good (and cheap!) easy mod to do.

[ScottC]

Thanks for all your input, I'll move forward with this.

Both Sonic Springs and RaceTech are well regarded here. Any reason to chose one over the other? Are there other options? It was mentioned that RaceTech provides spacer material to be cut to length, I didn't see any reference to that for Sonic Springs. Are the Sonic Springs longer than RaceTech?

Both RaceTech and Sonic tell me .95. I'm about 185 with gear on, and a top case. Just put a 929 shock on, the factory spring rate is,per RaceTech, just right for my not-so-large self. I see a lot of folks saying their RaceTech calculated spring weight is too stiff. Perhaps I go .90?

Not sure the oil weight, I'll leave what's in there for now, keep it simple. The valves I hope to do around Christmas, surely I can wait that long on the oil that's in there.

The whiskey advice was easily the most significant. Definitely after.

Thanks again,

ScottC

[Insomniac]

Go with the .90 springs. I'm 190 and these are perfect. I'm a bit overdamped with 10wt synthetic, but that will be replaced in winter.

[enzed_viffer]

Both Racetech and Sonic Springs spring rate calculators tend to come up with a spring weight that's a bit higher than it should be, so as Insomniac said, go with the 0.90 springs.

Sonic supply spacer tubing, and good instructions for how to measure it before cutting. When you calculate it, wind the preload adjusters in a couple of turns, so that it gives you some leeway for adjustment either way. I did this, and when I cut the spacers, I came up with a sag of 40mm - bang on the money!

I used a hacksaw then sanded the ends smooth (I have a pipe cutter, but the spacers are a bit thick for that).

I found Sonic Springs to be very helpful and efficient, and the price was very good too!

[JamieDaugherty]

Go with the 0.95's, that's going to be better than the 0.90's I think. That's what I recommend for riders that are your weight and have not had any complaints. Just make sure to set your sag properly and you would be all set.