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Making Pciii Custom Map Myself


bsujanto

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AFR sampling data

I'm in the process of making PCIII custom map for my 2004 Europe spec bike.

Anybody who wants see the AFR sampling data I get from Wideband II data logger, can download it from the link above.

Any comments are welcomed.

I put my bike on dyno yesterday. Especially to get the AFR data of high rpm range at 40%, 60%, 80% and 100% throttle position.

I'm not really satisfied with the the 2 and 5% TP data as the rpm range doesn't reach high enough. Perhaps because I use a modified car dyno which has limited Eddy current brake minimum resistance. But I can repeat these 2 and 5% TP on the street. No problem.

Some of the data also show zig-zag graphic like in between 6-9K at 60%. That's because there are 2 sets of data from 2 runs combined together. I think a different engine temperature might be the reason.

Anyway DynoJet said that I can aim for 13.5 A/F up to 20% throttle and up to 5,500RPM. and 13.2 for all those throttle and RPM points above that.

But before I make the map, I need to improve the 2 and 5% TP data first. Will make it this weekend.

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Thanks for sharing your data, I think we here in the US would have fairly different results because of the what I understand to be vastly different fuel being used. Hell all the maps from DynoJet are way different for the Euro bikes as it is.

But all data is good data. :ph34r:

Keep us informed of your progress and results. +1.gif

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I forget to mention some more informations that I got from DynoJet.

They suggest me to do the data sampling with engine temp between 78-88 deg C. I found this extremely difficult as it almost never stayed there. It can take hours of dyno time to make a complete set of AFR sampling with this rule. We need to give a considerable time for the bike to cool down in between runs.

They said they get this information from specific VFR VTEC tuning information in their files.

Confronted with the fact that our bike is normally doesn't run that cool, they asked if I'm sure the temp gauge is ok.

They still insist that's the way it should be done.

They have a theory that the ECU will dump more fuel in an effort to cool down the combustion chamber in our normal 105 deg C engine temp.

And if I make my map based on this hot sample, it will get very lean in cold condition when the engine temp can't get high enough.

Hell, I take the risk cause I live in tropical climate.

Air supply for the PAIR valve should also be blocked. It makes sense and done easily.

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Oop's, thought you were in Europe for some reason, not Indonesia! :ph34r:

I don't know what type of fuel you get there compared to the US, could be the same stuff.

Anyway thanks again and keep the data coming! +1.gif

PS have you thought about changing to their PC V(five) w/autotune?

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Guest Pete McCrary
Thanks for sharing your data, I think we here in the US would have fairly different results because of the what I understand to be vastly different fuel being used. Hell all the maps from DynoJet are way different for the Euro bikes as it is.

But all data is good data. :ph34r:

Keep us informed of your progress and results. +1.gif

Kev:

How does European fuel/gas differ from ours? Better or worse?

Pete

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While you're at it, could you check and see if gear selection changes your readings? I have found, for a fact, that '06-'09 has different maps depending on which gear you are in. Thanks.

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Oop's, thought you were in Europe for some reason, not Indonesia! :laugh:

I don't know what type of fuel you get there compared to the US, could be the same stuff.

Anyway thanks again and keep the data coming! :ph34r:

PS have you thought about changing to their PC V(five) w/autotune?

About the PC V w/ auto tune, I'm not sure I will go that way. At least for the time being, cause I really want to understand how things are going on manually with the Wideband 2.

I'm even thinking to install this WB2 on car after this. Get some reading and get PC V or PC III installed on my car. It's technically possible.

Anyway the difference between man and boy is only the price of their toy smile.gif

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While you're at it, could you check and see if gear selection changes your readings? I have found, for a fact, that '06-'09 has different maps depending on which gear you are in. Thanks.

Fix it in one gear, start the logger, play around with various TP and rpm. Stop the logger. Repeat it again for different gear.

I can do that on the street. No problem.

Do you have any idea between what gear positions this difference is most apparent?

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Oop's, thought you were in Europe for some reason, not Indonesia! :wheel:

I don't know what type of fuel you get there compared to the US, could be the same stuff.

Anyway thanks again and keep the data coming! :ph34r:

PS have you thought about changing to their PC V(five) w/autotune?

About the PC V w/ auto tune, I'm not sure I will go that way. At least for the time being, cause I really want to understand how things are going on manually with the Wideband 2.

I'm even thinking to install this WB2 on car after this. Get some reading and get PC V or PC III installed on my car. It's technically possible.

Anyway the difference between man and boy is only the price of their toy smile.gif

Well if you already have the WB/02 all you need is the PCV which is basically the same price as the PCIII. :beer:

But I certainly understand your desire to comprehend what is actually going on with it instead of just installing it! :laugh:

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While you're at it, could you check and see if gear selection changes your readings? I have found, for a fact, that '06-'09 has different maps depending on which gear you are in. Thanks.

Fix it in one gear, start the logger, play around with various TP and rpm. Stop the logger. Repeat it again for different gear.

I can do that on the street. No problem.

Do you have any idea between what gear positions this difference is most apparent?

The biggest difference is between 3rd and 4th gear at low throttle positions. It will go really lean. I believe, but not sure, that Dynojet uses 4th gear when doing pulls to make their maps. If you look at one of their "stock" maps for '02-'05 and compare it to a "stock" map for '06-'08, you'll see how lean it really is. Also keep in mind that if you use the map that you are making on a '06-'09, you'll be way lean. That's why Cozeys map doesn't work on '06-'09 (well, that, and the VTEC point).

If you're questioning the temp info that Dynojet is telling you (and in my experiance, you should) just start the bike and run it at a constant RPM/throttle position from below that temp to above that temp watching the AFR. The easiest way would be on the center stand. If you do this, please let us know what you find out.

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Oop's, thought you were in Europe for some reason, not Indonesia! :laugh:

I don't know what type of fuel you get there compared to the US, could be the same stuff.

Anyway thanks again and keep the data coming! :ph34r:

PS have you thought about changing to their PC V(five) w/autotune?

About the PC V w/ auto tune, I'm not sure I will go that way. At least for the time being, cause I really want to understand how things are going on manually with the Wideband 2.

I'm even thinking to install this WB2 on car after this. Get some reading and get PC V or PC III installed on my car. It's technically possible.

Anyway the difference between man and boy is only the price of their toy smile.gif

With the PCV and Autotune, you see the same info. The PCV works with 3 tables. One is the main map that you are used to seeing in the PCIII. The second is the same table, only instead of plus and minus numbers, it has the AFR that you wish to have at those same RPM/throttle positions. The third map is the "trim" map. This map is filled by the Autotune while the bike is running.

Example: Lets say you have in the main map, +10(%) for the 20% throttle at 5000 RPM and you have 13.2 in the 20%-5000RPM cell in the AFR map. Now as your riding and get to that point the PCV will first use the first map to adjust the mixture to +10% of stock. Let's say the AFR sees 13.4. Each of the next cycles will be enriched until it hits the 13.2 that you have in the AFR table for that same cell position. Lets also say it had to alter your +10 to +5 to achieve the 13.2 you were looking for. It doesn't change your main map, instead it will put a -5 in the 20% / 5000 RPM cell in the trim table. The next time it gets to the same 20% throttle and 5000 RPM, it will look at the main map and trim map, do the math and send +5. If all is well, the AFR will read 13.2.

When you feel like finding out whats going on, you connect your computer and download your maps. You can view all three maps, and change the first two if you like. At this point you can choose to leave the trim table, clear the trims to zero in all cells, or you can update your main table with the trim table. If you do the later the above example would make the 20% 5000 RPM cell of your main map +5. In theory, each time you update your main maps with your trims you get closer to the perfect map.

I should also mention that you can set limits on max change, plus or minus, from you main map. I've got my worked down +10 and -5. This way if there's some problem, no harm will be done.

People have asked the question as to why you even need the main map. Well the AFR reading is after the fact. The mixture is first "made" then fired and then measured. You need the map to make the right mixture before it fired.

So....... By looking at the main map and trim map, you do see whats going on.

For anybody that buys a PCV, I'll be more than happy to share my map(s) with you. I would post them, but I have yet to set all the cells yet. I'm doing separate maps for each gear so thats 2700 cells so it might take awhile. I believe I've set about 1800 or so. Some I may never hit, 100% throttle at 2000 RPM in 6th gear comes to mind.

My bike has Remus carbons, BMC filter and blocked off PAIR (required to get good AFR readings).

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Thanks for the comprehensive information on how PC V works. Very well written and I should say "Wow... that's very interesting"

Perhaps later I'll get a PC V in my car project.

The 3 maps system of PC V is exactly what I'm doing manually in Excel to make a custom map for PC III. Sampling data is fed into first sheet. Second sheet is the design of target AFR. The third sheet is the calculation result = custom map.

I think I will download PC V map set for VFR. The second map (target AFR) will obviously help me improve my Excel second map design.

Anyway, perhaps you can tell me if the trim map contains adjustment for the most recent atmospheric condition that we ride in or does it contain an average adjustment of certain time length?

Edited by bsujanto
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Thanks for the comprehensive information on how PC V works. Very well written and I should say "Wow... that's very interesting"

Perhaps later I'll get a PC V in my car project.

The 3 maps system of PC V is exactly what I'm doing manually in Excel to make a custom map for PC III. Sampling data is fed into first sheet. Second sheet is the design of target AFR. The third sheet is the calculation result = custom map.

I think I will download PC V map set for VFR. The second map (target AFR) will obviously help me improve my Excel second map design.

Anyway, perhaps you can tell me if the trim map contains adjustment for the most recent atmospheric condition that we ride in or does it contain an average adjustment of certain time length?

Well in theory, the bike itself will compensate for the atmospheric conditions using temp, and MAP sensors. These sensors should tell the ECU to alter the stock map. However, the Auto tune will correct it to your AFR table in the end anyway. This is the reason that even after you have created your main map you still run the Autotune, just to make these fine tune adjustments.

Below is a link to Dynojet's AFR table for VFR as shown in the PCV table. I set mine to .1 richer in 80% and 100% in all gears. Also, they don't give you a table for each gear, you must create your own (copy and paste works here). I set may 1st and 2nd gear to 13.2 all the way across to thru 60%, there is no "cruise" in 1st and 2nd. I made a small cruise area with cells as low as 13.5 in 3rd and 4th and an even larger one for 5th with some 13.6's. The 6th gear looks very much like this table, only some minor tweeks. Note- any cell with a zero is not "adjusted" by the Autotune, it controlled by the main map only.

gallery_15527_4691_23211.jpg

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If you're questioning the temp info that Dynojet is telling you (and in my experiance, you should) just start the bike and run it at a constant RPM/throttle position from below that temp to above that temp watching the AFR. The easiest way would be on the center stand. If you do this, please let us know what you find out.

I did the test just now. It's on centre stand. I forgot what gear it's in, but it's on 5%TP, 4.7K RPM, around 80km/h indicated speed.

Starting from 74 - 111 deg C, I can say that AFR is flickering around 13.6-13.8, constantly along the temp range.

Above 105 deg C, I reckon that 13.5 and 13.6 showed up in a blink or two, but I think we can omit it.

Though the theory that ECU dumps more fuel at high temp is not proven at this test, we should remember that it is done only at 5%TP. I think it's not conclusive enough.

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If you're questioning the temp info that Dynojet is telling you (and in my experiance, you should) just start the bike and run it at a constant RPM/throttle position from below that temp to above that temp watching the AFR. The easiest way would be on the center stand. If you do this, please let us know what you find out.

I did the test just now. It's on centre stand. I forgot what gear it's in, but it's on 5%TP, 4.7K RPM, around 80km/h indicated speed.

Starting from 74 - 111 deg C, I can say that AFR is flickering around 13.6-13.8, constantly along the temp range.

Above 105 deg C, I reckon that 13.5 and 13.6 showed up in a blink or two, but I think we can omit it.

Though the theory that ECU dumps more fuel at high temp is not proven at this test, we should remember that it is done only at 5%TP. I think it's not conclusive enough.

I think I would agree, it's not conclusive. I'll ask around locally and see if I can find a Dynojet LCD display that I can use for a day or so. Know some good hills that I can get the temp up to the 110 range with out too much problem. I still have a hard time believing it starts going rich at 88, that's normal operating temp for me in the summer. Hell, they don't even kick the fan on until 104. I would think the earliest, if any, would be 95 or so.

Was the table any help?

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I think I would agree, it's not conclusive. I'll ask around locally and see if I can find a Dynojet LCD display that I can use for a day or so. Know some good hills that I can get the temp up to the 110 range with out too much problem. I still have a hard time believing it starts going rich at 88, that's normal operating temp for me in the summer. Hell, they don't even kick the fan on until 104. I would think the earliest, if any, would be 95 or so.

Was the table any help?

Yes, it is. Thanks.

I worked out my custom map calculation based on the table as target AFR and the cumulative actual AFR from dyno session and street riding.

Dyno session takes care of high rpm and high tp area, while street riding takes care of low n med rpm at low tp.

Before being taken to calculation sheet, I put all actual AFR data at each TP steps on graphics so I could see and delete any irregular datas.

This irregular datas are represented by dots or spikes that are clearly outside the main stream of data.

Anyway, I got the custom map uploaded into PC III and had the AFR logged afterward on the street. I didn't get feedback for all cells though, but we can see AFR is improved towards the target at many cells. I will keep doing this everytime I ride and get more and more valid datas to adjust the custom map further.

Regarding the bike itself, I feel it is significantly smoother at "parking lot" speed and the vtec transition has also improved.

I haven't got a chance to measure the gas mileage, but the custom map indicates that it could be worse now.

gallery_4004_4792_182297.jpg

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I think I would agree, it's not conclusive. I'll ask around locally and see if I can find a Dynojet LCD display that I can use for a day or so. Know some good hills that I can get the temp up to the 110 range with out too much problem. I still have a hard time believing it starts going rich at 88, that's normal operating temp for me in the summer. Hell, they don't even kick the fan on until 104. I would think the earliest, if any, would be 95 or so.

Was the table any help?

Yes, it is. Thanks.

I worked out my custom map calculation based on the table as target AFR and the cumulative actual AFR from dyno session and street riding.

Dyno session takes care of high rpm and high tp area, while street riding takes care of low n med rpm at low tp.

Before being taken to calculation sheet, I put all actual AFR data at each TP steps on graphics so I could see and delete any irregular datas.

This irregular datas are represented by dots or spikes that are clearly outside the main stream of data.

Anyway, I got the custom map uploaded into PC III and had the AFR logged afterward on the street. I didn't get feedback for all cells though, but we can see AFR is improved towards the target at many cells. I will keep doing this everytime I ride and get more and more valid datas to adjust the custom map further.

Regarding the bike itself, I feel it is significantly smoother at "parking lot" speed and the vtec transition has also improved.

I haven't got a chance to measure the gas mileage, but the custom map indicates that it could be worse now.

gallery_4004_4792_182297.jpg

Wow, some of those readings are really lean! Whats up with the 40% column?!?

I have to agree with you, the biggest change in mine is the ability to sneek quietly through a residential neighbor 25-30 in 3rd gear, smooth as silk. I think I might try running up to 13.8 in 6th low throttle cruise areas, see how it goes. Thanks for sharing.

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Pretty good numbers there, wonder how they relate to Dyno numbers here?

That is one ruff and jagged torque curve, I would think smoother torque delivery would be much more desirable than smooth HP. :cool:

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Here I have some interesting comparison between my custom map and map provided by Power Commander for US and Euro bike stock exhaust stock air filter, shown on PC III software.

Bold blue line is the custom map. Top picture at each TP is comparison with US bike. Bottom with Euro bike.

At 2% TP

gallery_4004_4792_70549.jpg

At 5% TP

gallery_4004_4792_48889.jpg

At 10% TP

gallery_4004_4792_3556.jpg

At 20% TP

gallery_4004_4792_2919.jpg

At 40% TP

gallery_4004_4792_46323.jpg

At 60% TP

gallery_4004_4792_4785.jpg

At 80% TP

gallery_4004_4792_36090.jpg

At 100% TP

gallery_4004_4792_41791.jpg

In many cases, the curve of the custom map looks similar to PC provided map, only that custom map is down shifted.

PC provided map is more aggressive in richening the AFR.

It's quite in line with the quote from my DynoJet source. The humidity here is 70-90% all day. The higher the humidity, the less oxygen available, the less gasoline needed to reach target AFR.

PC provided maps are designed for less humid country and it is too rich for my use.

The custom map somehow proves it right.

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I was just thinking, you did bypass the PAIR system before testing didn't you?

Yes, I did. I plugged the supply hose at the air box.

What makes think of that?

Some numbers in weird places are pretty lean. Example: 8750@40%=17.3?!? I could discount one wild number but it seems to decline to that from much earlier in the RPM range. Which O2 bung are you using?

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Sneaking in a dumb question...

The PCV is listed only for 09. Are the plugs the same? I have an 08, and if I'm going to buy one, I'd like to get the V

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