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Give Your 5th-gen A Boost...


toro1

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As long as you're ready for the power and put some weight over the tank, keeping the front end down really isn't an issue...

...beyond 3rd gear. wink.gif

<insert drooly emoticon here> *cough6thGencough* wink.gif

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Guest horwitzs

Do you offer the boost gauge as an add-on option to the kit, or must if be sourced from someplace else?

Edited by horwitzs
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Congrats!! Looks awesome :blink:

Come on who´s ordered one? Share every glorious detail.

I wish, I wish, I wish.....

Bren, wishing

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Whens the RC51 kit coming? :wheel: I'll drop it off whenever you want for R&D! :fing02:

I have been getting more requests for the RC now that the site has launched. It's certainly a possibility, but I do have other bikes lined up to receive kits first. If there's enough demand I'll make a kit for any bike, but without feedback it's very hard to gauge real interest.

Toro, do you recommend cat-less headers / aftermarket exhuast? Or would this work fine with the stock gear?

It should work fine with the stock exhaust, but just realize that with the supercharger, the more exhaust flow the better, which is why I'm kicking around the idea of making a full system with larger diameter tubing. There's certainly power to be gained by opening up the exhaust.

As it stands, catless '98-'99 headers are the best flowing pipes found on any VFR. I'll find out how much power is lost from the cat once I bolt a kit onto a '00-'01.

Again, a slip-on is not needed, but will certainly bump up the power output -- if you're able to gain an extra 5hp or so on a naturally aspirated motor, you can imagine what it will do with the supercharger. This is also why I don't quote actual hp increases, as bikes and dynos vary too much from one another to accurately nail down a number. However, a percentage increase I can quote, as boost is boost, and affects your engine's efficiency (changing the exhaust will only help to increase that efficiency).

Okay so which one of my bikes do you want me to drop off first???

Guinea pig bikes get an added discount don't they Dan??

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Congrats on your milestone, Dan!

I've been following this with great interest since the very beginning: you announced your S/C intentions just as I was kicking around the idea of installing a turbo system onto my bike.

After watching your progress, researching on my own, and learning along with the others here on VFRD, I am convinced that you have created the perfect force-fed system for our bikes, with all the benefits of a turbo (efficiency), but with easier packaging and oiling system.

I've expressed my interest before in a 6th gen kit, and I am still a future buyer of such a kit, after it becomes available.

I agree, the 6th gen kit is probably going to end up selling more in the end, but there are a LOT of 5th gen bikes around yet!

I've already gotten the nod OK from the "boss", and that's most of the battle, isn't it?

Can't wait to see the 6th gen! :wheel:

Dawg, If you help me install mine. I will help you when your 6gen one is ready.

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WOW very very nice now I don't need to buy another bike. There goes my kids college fund. Hope to be ordering this summer if all works out with the BOSS. Quick question, I have a 5th Gen 00 W/ Motad full exhaust without O2 and no Cat. and TBR Slip on. Will your map for PCIII work with this or should I need a retune done to match?

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Congrats on your milestone, Dan!

I've been following this with great interest since the very beginning: you announced your S/C intentions just as I was kicking around the idea of installing a turbo system onto my bike.

After watching your progress, researching on my own, and learning along with the others here on VFRD, I am convinced that you have created the perfect force-fed system for our bikes, with all the benefits of a turbo (efficiency), but with easier packaging and oiling system.

I've expressed my interest before in a 6th gen kit, and I am still a future buyer of such a kit, after it becomes available.

I agree, the 6th gen kit is probably going to end up selling more in the end, but there are a LOT of 5th gen bikes around yet!

I've already gotten the nod OK from the "boss", and that's most of the battle, isn't it?

Can't wait to see the 6th gen! :biggrin:

Dawg, If you help me install mine. I will help you when your 6gen one is ready.

No problem.

If I can successfully complete install of the incomplete used Whipple set-up on my old truck, I will consider myself qualified.

The Torocharger will be a welcome change.

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Wow. I just noticed, you botched one MAJOR thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You forgot to have your logo, silk screened, to the top front, of the airbox.

Bastid. Shame on you.

:cool: :fing02:

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I think it'd be great to see some new footage of the bike in action (racetrack, quarter-mile etc). Toro do you have any plans to add any soon? I have a 6th gen. and I need to occupy myself with something until you have a kit for 6th generation. The wait is proving to be too painful :laugh: !

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How hard is it to keep the front wheel on the ground, now? LOL

Let's put it this way -- watching that original test run video now makes the bike seem tame. I'm contemplating returning my gearing back to stock as my front end has seen daylight in 5th gear. As long as you're ready for the power and put some weight over the tank, keeping the front end down really isn't an issue...

...beyond 3rd gear. wink.gif

I guess it eats rear tires whit good apetite :laugh:

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I think it'd be great to see some new footage of the bike in action (racetrack, quarter-mile etc). Toro do you have any plans to add any soon? I have a 6th gen. and I need to occupy myself with something until you have a kit for 6th generation. The wait is proving to be too painful :biggrin: !

I might be taking the bike down to Atco this year for a little dragstrip fun, and I am still planning to strap my DV cam to the tank for some high quality ride footage once free time & the weather cooperate.

I guess it eats rear tires whit good apetite :biggrin:

Believe it or not, it doesn't spin the tire anymore than stock. Granted, I don't do a whole lot of rain riding, but the only time I've noticed any spin at all is on very cold tires on very cold days. The boost curve is really gentle on the rear tire, and on the front one, too, as it wheelies long before it breaks traction.

Actually, just thought of an occasion where wheelspin occurs -- dyno time. If you do not have the bike strapped down fully with good weight on the back, it will spin the rear tire up. Funny looking dips & peaks on a dyno chart let you know when this is occurring.

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Big congrats Dan. That kit is top notch. All I can think of is Fifth Gen streetfighter with your kit on it.

More video please!!!!!

Also, I'm sure your hitting the publicity ideas pretty hard right now, but maybe also consider landspeed racing. That is a great venue for "Showing off." I know of a guy in So. Cal building a streamliner powered by a 6th gen motor. Maybe hook up with him and set a record or two.

This kit will also be a hit with the custom buggy/formula car crowd. Maybe help an off-road fabricator build a buggy and market it through off-road magazines. Whoa, I'd better start stocking up on 5th gen motors ASAP. :goofy:

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A long time ago, in the original supercharger build thread, I had asked Toro if he had considered using CBR1100XX injectors instead of the RC ones he modified.

Today, just for giggles, I looked up the part numbers, and I don't think they are any different, one to the other.

CBR1100 = 06164-PCB-OOO

VFR800 = 06164-PCA-OOO

Only the product code in the middle is different, so the parts should be identical in every respect.

No help really, but just for info and to soothe my curiosity from the old thread.

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A long time ago, in the original supercharger build thread, I had asked Toro if he had considered using CBR1100XX injectors instead of the RC ones he modified.

Today, just for giggles, I looked up the part numbers, and I don't think they are any different, one to the other.

CBR1100 = 06164-PCB-OOO

VFR800 = 06164-PCA-OOO

Only the product code in the middle is different, so the parts should be identical in every respect.

No help really, but just for info and to soothe my curiosity from the old thread.

The Blackbird injectors are identical in function, appearance, and dimension to the VFR injectors, but they flow 50cc/min more. The only reason I'm not using Blackbird or S2000 injectors in the kit is that Keihin simply does not make them anymore and they cannot be purchased for a realistic price unless you're talking about thousands of units. Thus, I got around this whole injector problem by reusing the stock injectors and modifying the fuel pressure.

The only reason bigger injectors would be needed now is if an intercooler is added and/or more power is desired.

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The only reason bigger injectors would be needed now is if an intercooler is added and/or more power is desired.

Sounds like the Stage II kit... :491:

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Sounds like a great product, but have to ask you one question. When they design these bikes they know around how much power is going to the rear wheel and they put components that can handle that much power and a little more. With this supercharger the bike is going from around one hundred horse power to one hundred fifty horse power, that is a huge increase. Am by no means an expert but from what I have seen all the RR sport bikes do not have a single side swing arm and even in some brochures they mention dual swing arms are needed to handle the horse power. Sounds like a great product but these question should be asked, especially on a vehicle with only two wheels.

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Fair questions to ask, my take is - Honda over-engineers every component of the bike, and especially those components that are regularly loaded. It's made to take a lot of punishment, that's why the VFR is so heavy. Also, you are not using all of those 150 hosses all the time, so the actual increase in stress for the drivetrain is fairly negligible.

The VFR is probably one of the strongest motorcycles on the market, and is ideal for this sort of modification.

The single sided swingarm is not an issue at all. The racing RC45s used in WSB were punching out 200hp and I'd be surprised if they ever had a swingarm failure - they went to a conventional swingarm towards the end of the RC45s racing life to try to get better tyre wear and performance, not because of strength problems.

My only concern would be for the gearbox, which is the only major VFR drivetrain component that I've known to fail (a mate's 4th Gen had a bearing cage collapse, but it was a high mileage bike that he'd royally abused). It's a split-the-cases job to replace the gearbox internals. But then again if you're building a 150hp VFR you pretty much have to accept that it's possible that you may one day need to resolve such a problem, and anyway it's a good excuse to slip some bigger pistons in for 870cc :491:

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CBR1100 = 06164-PCB-OOO

VFR800 = 06164-PCA-OOO

Only the product code in the middle is different, so the parts should be identical in every respect.

"Only the product code"...is the whole shootin' match! The first set of numbers is going to be identical for every part that has the same basic function (i.e., "fuel injector"), and the last set of numbers essentially refers to the revision and subcontractor (generally "000" unless there are regional differences, colours, updates/revisions or subcontractor changes), so the MAIN part of the number that changes to indicate a different part specification is the middle one.

That said, "PCA" isn't the normal product code for the VFR800 (nor is "PCB" the code for the Blackbird), so these are clearly some sort of special category designations. I would have to say that the part numbers probably don't tell us anything--except that the specification is DIFFERENT in some way (e.g., they flow 50cc/min more)...

Ciao,

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Landlover and Phantom,

The difference here is that the power is not dumped on the components all at once. It builds linearly so that while you are already underway, moving faster and faster, power is applied more and more. If you could bore this engine out to 1300cc, there would be real concern. However, you can't, and the torque curve is so smooth that there's no hammering of components (and remember, it's not like you are riding around with 160hp & 70lb-ft at all times). As was mentioned, most components - while not exactly the same spec - were developed during the RC45 program, where considerably more abuse was placed on them than will ever be put on a street-ridden VFR.

The following was taken from my FAQs page:

Will the supercharger affect my engine's durability?

For all intents and purposes, durability is unchanged. How can that be? Well, consider that for the vast majority of time spent riding, the engine does not even see boost (thanks to the vacuum operated bypass valve), which means that cruising and light acceleration conditions are unchanged from the stock setup.

Remember, the #1 killer of forced induction engines is detonation/pre-ignition. As long as the proper octane fuel is used, this is not an issue with A&A supercharger kits, as proper tuning and air/fuel ratios have been carefully worked out in advance to negate this scenario.

The boost curve of the centrifugal is also very easy on the drivetrain. Torque kills components, but since the supercharger builds boost in a linear manner, there isn't an overabundance of torque down low. Plus, keep in mind that the acceleration forces of the rod & piston moving up and down 200 times per second @ 12000rpm far outweigh the forces of increased combustion activity.

Running quality fluids, sticking to maintenance schedules, and riding in an intelligent manner will ensure solid performance for years to come.

I cannot guarantee the life of components if you strap a slick on the back, slam the bike, and launch it flat out on a dragstrip pass after pass -- the bike, and the kit, were not developed for that. I can only speak of real world durability with my bike, and it has passed that test flawlessly thusfar.

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Also, this is a Supercharger and not a turbo kit. If it were a turbo you would have a "hit" on the system when the boost reaches a certain level and finally kicks in. Superchargers are great in the aspect that linearity is inherently built in. This allows you more power at lower rpms that ramp up in a very friendly manner.

You need a real world example? Look to that 18 wheeler on the highway. A good number of them use multiple superchargers for low end torque to move those heavy loads and they are good for 500k miles if maintained correctly?

If you want boost AND longevity superchargers tend to be the path of choice. The draw backs are you don't get as much boost as a turbo and they tend be be harder to optimize as they are not as efficient as turbos but for the VFR, do you really need more than 150-160 hp for a street application?

(If you say yes then build your own custom kit and you will quickly see that Toro is putting together one hell of a deal as far as quality and design are concerned. After all, it took him 2 years to develop the kit to what it is today.)

You know, I would like to see Toro's VFR in that Busa vs VFR thread people just won't let die. :rolleyes:

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We're famous! (Okay, Dan's famous--at least in the hallowed pages of Britain's Motor Cycle News):

gallery_362_402_265615.jpg

Torocharger-MCN-20090318.JPG

Ciao,

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It should work fine with the stock exhaust, but just realize that with the supercharger, the more exhaust flow the better, which is why I'm kicking around the idea of making a full system with larger diameter tubing. There's certainly power to be gained by opening up the exhaust.

As it stands, catless '98-'99 headers are the best flowing pipes found on any VFR. I'll find out how much power is lost from the cat once I bolt a kit onto a '00-'01.

Dan, have a look at the Motad kits already available for the VFR. They are aftermarket stainless headers with no cat.

http://www.motad.co.uk/product.php?prod=VF...+Collector+Unit

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Also, Dan could you please post the required octane ratings to avoid detonation? Not just in American (RON + MON / 2) but also RON and MON.

You state 93 US octane, which to me works out at 98 RON, yeah?

Such fuel is not *always* available everywhere in Australia - sometimes you can only get 91 RON (approx. 87 US octane), but 95 RON is fairly common. What is your advice in these circumstances?

My car - a 4 litre six cylinder turbo - will run on 91 but only because it has a knock sensor AND a closed-loop EFI system driven by the O2 sensors. The VFR doesn't have this of course....

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Thanks for posting that, John. I was waiting for that article to hit, but they misspoke about the dyno tuning. The only reason you'd need to play with the map is if you have a significantly different exhaust system than the factory header and/or pipe/slip-on.

Also, Dan could you please post the required octane ratings to avoid detonation? Not just in American (RON + MON / 2) but also RON and MON.

You state 93 US octane, which to me works out at 98 RON, yeah?

Such fuel is not *always* available everywhere in Australia - sometimes you can only get 91 RON (approx. 87 US octane), but 95 RON is fairly common. What is your advice in these circumstances?

My car - a 4 litre six cylinder turbo - will run on 91 but only because it has a knock sensor AND a closed-loop EFI system driven by the O2 sensors. The VFR doesn't have this of course....

If you truly plan to never hit boost, and only operate at part throttle conditions and lower rpms (<7000), then regular gas if fine. However, if you intend to go into the boost, then I highly, highly recommend 91-93 (R+M)/2 or 95-98 RON gasoline. Even still, if you get a bad tank of gas or intend to do some serious prolonged boosting, a race-gas mix or octane booster can offer further protection against detonation/pre-ignition.

I run my bike on 92-93 (R+M)/2 here in the states and have no trouble. I have also found that the Lucas MMT-based octane booster works quite well with junky gas (believe me, you will feel a difference with a bad tank).

Also, I've seen the Motad header and it would be a nice upgrade for someone with a cat. I would still like to build a system with larger diameter tubing and a nicer collector design to free up some more power from this engine.

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