Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 3, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 I've had my battery (installed on the bike) hooked up to a new Sears Craftsman battery tender for about 2 months now and no problems. I noticed yesterday that both the “charged” and “charging” lights were lit on the battery tender and then today I checked it twice and it was on “charging” (assuming all day). So tonight I turn the key on out of curiosity and the battery is dead! I just rode the bike last Saturday and it was fine. Plus, the key wasn't even in the ignition the entire week, it was in the switch you turn to pull the seat. I pulled the battery and connected the battery tender to it and will let it charge over night. I'm trying to eliminate possibilities here. The PO said the battery was less than a year old. I'm thinking one of the three possibilities listed below: 1.Battery is no good – however, there is a third light on the battery tender that says “check battery” and that light never came on. 2.Battery Tender is defective – It's only two months old and worked fine until now. 3.Front brake light switch is drawing current even with the key off – Last week, I re-attached the wires for the front brake light switch that had been previously disconnected (not by me). Can it draw current with the key off? The brake light certainly wasn't on or I'd have noticed that. Even if the battery tender was defective, it wouldn't kill my battery and the battery wouldn't be dead 6 days after I rode it so I'm thinking it's number 3. Now, how do I go about finding out? As you can tell by my post, I am no electrical genius. Any ideas are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlecreek Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I've had my battery (installed on the bike) hooked up to a new Sears Craftsman battery tender for about 2 months now and no problems. I noticed yesterday that both the “charged” and “charging” lights were lit on the battery tender and then today I checked it twice and it was on “charging” (assuming all day). So tonight I turn the key on out of curiosity and the battery is dead! I just rode the bike last Saturday and it was fine. Plus, the key wasn't even in the ignition the entire week, it was in the switch you turn to pull the seat. I pulled the battery and connected the battery tender to it and will let it charge over night. I'm trying to eliminate possibilities here. The PO said the battery was less than a year old. I'm thinking one of the three possibilities listed below: 1.Battery is no good – however, there is a third light on the battery tender that says “check battery” and that light never came on. 2.Battery Tender is defective – It's only two months old and worked fine until now. 3.Front brake light switch is drawing current even with the key off – Last week, I re-attached the wires for the front brake light switch that had been previously disconnected (not by me). Can it draw current with the key off? The brake light certainly wasn't on or I'd have noticed that. Even if the battery tender was defective, it wouldn't kill my battery and the battery wouldn't be dead 6 days after I rode it so I'm thinking it's number 3. Now, how do I go about finding out? As you can tell by my post, I am no electrical genius. Any ideas are welcome. pull the battery out of your bike and put it on the tender with no other connections. if it doesnt charge, you either have dead battery or bad charger. take battery to dealer, have them load test it. it it charges, you have some short on the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 pull the battery out of your bike and put it on the tender with no other connections. if it doesnt charge, you either have dead battery or bad charger. take battery to dealer, have them load test it. it it charges, you have some short on the bike. I pulled it this evening and it's on the charger now. Do you think it has anything to do with the front brake light switch? The wires were pulled from the switch until a week or so ago (I just recently bought this bike), I noticed it and plugged them back in. I just can't see how having a bad charger would drain the battery in a week. If it is a short, could a mechanic easily find it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlecreek Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 pull the battery out of your bike and put it on the tender with no other connections. if it doesnt charge, you either have dead battery or bad charger. take battery to dealer, have them load test it. it it charges, you have some short on the bike. I pulled it this evening and it's on the charger now. Do you think it has anything to do with the front brake light switch? The wires were pulled from the switch until a week or so ago (I just recently bought this bike), I noticed it and plugged them back in. I just can't see how having a bad charger would drain the battery in a week. If it is a short, could a mechanic easily find it? yeah, i didnt read it right....probably not the charger doing this in a week. since you just bought it, its a definite possibility that something was up with the brake switch/wires and the PO simply pulled it. in general, issues like electrical shorts are difficult to find. they definitely CAN be found, but it just takes time and effort. easiest thing is to recharge off the bike. put on (with brake switch disconnected) see how things go. if it holds a charge without issue, you know what the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 I checked the battery this morning, it is showing fully charged. Oddly enough, this is not what I had hoped for. This narrows it down to something to do with the front brake light switch or the wires to the switch. The battery held full charge on the bike until I discovered those front brake switch wires and reconnected them last week. I was hoping it was the charger/tender or the battery itself. Those I could easily replace. Now what? Could it be the switch? I'm inclined to replace the next easiest thing and that would be the brake light switch. If anyone has suggestions as to how to figure this out I'd appreciate it. My electrical knowledge and troubleshooting these things is very limited. If it's not the switch then I'm over my head and will need outside assistance. On that note, does anyone know of an honest and knowledgeable technician in Southwestern PA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted January 3, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 If you have an electric tester, test the switch wires for ground and power. A regular 12V light bulb tester will do. If I'm not mistaken, one wire should have ground (continuity with frame) at all times. The other one should not have continuity with frame and should be live with ignition on and dead with ignition off - Electric gurus will correct me if I'm wrong here shortly. If any of these conditions are not met, then probably the wires rubbed through and touching either the frame or another wire. Trace them down into the harness and hope that you can see where they short. Otherwise, you'd have to pull up the wiring diagram, which can be intimidating and trace them that way. It is not easy for a novice, but if you take the time and succeed, you'll save a bunch of cash and be proud of yourself for fixing your machine. I know I would be :laugh: Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 I have a tester and will try that. How do you know which prong on the tester goes to which wire? Am I looking for it to light up with the ignition off? If it does light up, does that mean there is a short? I looked at the wiring diagram when I downloaded the service manual a short time back and it baffles me. To be completely honest, I don't want to tear the bike completely apart and get into something that is beyond my skill level. Plus my work schedule pretty much monopolizes all of my time. I'll most likely take it to a technician (if I can find a good one that I can trust) and get it repaired. I emailed the PO to see if he knows what is wrong with it since he's the one that pulled the wires but I doubt that I will hear back from him. I have to get this fixed one way or the other. My conscience will not allow me to sell it in its present state and dump this on somebody else and I can't ride it safely this way. Thanks for the ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer SkeeBoy Posted January 3, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 First off take out the battery and put a voltmeter on it and tell us the voltage.If it's below 2 volts the battery might be shot.Sounds like a bad charger to me which is not out of the question with something crapsman.(craftsman or sears)If the charger was charging the batt constantly for a week it probably killed the batt.Hook the charger up to another battery to see if it charges it then switches to float mode to check the charger.Take a voltage reading while it's charging,should be between 13-14 volts dc.If you dont have a voltmeter you can usually pick one up from HF for bout $20.Second option would be take the batt to someone with a load tester to find your cold cranking amps this will tell you if the batt is bad or just needs charging.(local batt dealer,motorcycle shop,even parts stores have load testers) If the charger and battery both check out ok you might have a open ground somewhere.Does your brake light work when you pull front brake lever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 The switch its self should be pretty easy to troubleshoot. First, does it work (light up the brake light)? It should have an audible click when you squeeze the brake. Next, disconnect the wires going into the switch, and put an ohm meter where the wires were connected. It should read open until you squeeze the brake lever, then it should read closed. If the switch is good then you'll have to start looking for a problem somewhere in the wiring. You could start with the switch hooked up and see if you are getting any voltage at the brake light without the lever being squeezed. If you are, start following wires back and see what is causing it. Wiring problems can be difficult but if you take your time and eliminate one component at a time you should be able to do it. Good Luck! Action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 First off take out the battery and put a voltmeter on it and tell us the voltage.If it's below 2 volts the battery might be shot.Sounds like a bad charger to me which is not out of the question with something crapsman.(craftsman or sears)If the charger was charging the batt constantly for a week it probably killed the batt.Hook the charger up to another battery to see if it charges it then switches to float mode to check the charger.Take a voltage reading while it's charging,should be between 13-14 volts dc.If you dont have a voltmeter you can usually pick one up from HF for bout $20.Second option would be take the batt to someone with a load tester to find your cold cranking amps this will tell you if the batt is bad or just needs charging.(local batt dealer,motorcycle shop,even parts stores have load testers)If the charger and battery both check out ok you might have a open ground somewhere.Does your brake light work when you pull front brake lever? I pulled the battery last night and let it charge all night on the suspect charger. This morning I checked the battery (off the charger) and it read 13 volts. I put it in the bike and it fired right up. So, it's holding a charge for now, at least. On the charger I got 13.5 volts. The brake light works when I pull the lever. As I mentioned earlier, the PO had pulled the front brake switch wires and I did not notice it. A few weeks after I got the bike, I noticed they were off and re-connected them to the switch. That is when the problem began. I wish it were the battery or charger but it's not. I don't even know what an open ground is. The switch its self should be pretty easy to troubleshoot. First, does it work (light up the brake light)? It should have an audible click when you squeeze the brake. Next, disconnect the wires going into the switch, and put an ohm meter where the wires were connected. It should read open until you squeeze the brake lever, then it should read closed. If the switch is good then you'll have to start looking for a problem somewhere in the wiring. You could start with the switch hooked up and see if you are getting any voltage at the brake light without the lever being squeezed. If you are, start following wires back and see what is causing it. Wiring problems can be difficult but if you take your time and eliminate one component at a time you should be able to do it. Good Luck!Action The switch works fine. I have a multimeter with the ohm setting. What number do I set it on? And what reading would you get for open and for closed? I need another person to test the switch. I can't touch the tester ends to the switch and pull the brake lever alone. I tested the wires (pulled off of the switch) with the key off and got no volts. I then set the meter on the ohm (the upside down horseshoe looking symbol) setting at 200 (goes from 200 to 20K) and got a reading of 2.0 with the key off. I have no idea what this means, if anything. I would imagine it would be pretty involved to pull everything off the bike (side panels, fairing, instrument panel, fuel tank etc) and get down to where the wiring is and I'd imagine that's the simple part. If that is necessary, I'll have the dealer look at it. How dumb can I be to not have checked this prior to buying it? Never even thought of it. There isn't a mark on the bike and it only has 12,000 miles on it. Live and learn. I guess the old saying about a fool and his money are soon parted is true. :laugh: I waited and saved for two years for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dude Posted January 3, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 How old is the battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I can't imagine how the brake switch could be the source of a dead battery...it could just be coincidence? In any case, testing the switch is easy (even by yourself). Using the Ohm setting at 200, if you touch both prongs on the switch you should get no reading (same as when not touching them). Then strap a belt, tie a rag, use a bit of tape, etc to hold the brake lever down, and retest. Now you should get very little resistance (close to zero). The switch simply connects the two wires when it is activated. To test the wires, use the 12v setting and test between each wire and a good ground point on the bike (battery - works if needed). You should get 12V on one wire with the key on, 0v on that same wire with the key off. The other wire should be 0v no matter what the key position is. Next use the Ohm setting again, and test between each wire and ground (with the key off). You should have close to zero on the wire that had 0v, and yoiu should get no reading on the wire that had 12v with the key on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Check your Tender pigtail plug connector. I found out that these connectors can develop corrosion over time and I would sometimes find my tender still on the charge light even after being connected for a while. I just plug and unplug the connector a few times to break the corrosion and restore the charging to the battery. A little bit of dielectric greas in the connectr points should also help. Beck 95 VFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Flip Posted January 3, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 Its possible the battery could still be an issue. Regardless of its age, it may have been discharged to the point it is no good. I have had 2 batteries that my tender indicated full charge, volt meter showed 13+ volts and would start the bike 2 or 3 times then crank no more. A another thing you may want to check is parasitic drain, disconnect the ground from battery, Switch your meter to ml amp, black or - probe on battery ground, the red or + on battery ground wire. Honda service manual section 16 page 7, 1.2 mA max draw. I should mention you want the key off when doing this test. If you have more draw than 1.2 mA, pull fuses one at a time until you find the heavy user. this I think will get you on the right circuit to locate the short. PS don't give up on her yet, She's way to much fun!! Flip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checksix Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Just use your voltmeter to check the battery voltage every few days while its in the bike. 24 hours after the full charge it should settle down to a "resting voltage" of around 12.8 volts, or so. After a week it might drop to 12.7 or 12.6 If it drops faster/lower than that you might have something drawing current in the wiring or the battery itself is starting to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2009 How old is the battery? I got it with the bike and the PO said it was new. I really don't know for sure. I can't imagine how the brake switch could be the source of a dead battery...it could just be coincidence? In any case, testing the switch is easy (even by yourself).Using the Ohm setting at 200, if you touch both prongs on the switch you should get no reading (same as when not touching them). Then strap a belt, tie a rag, use a bit of tape, etc to hold the brake lever down, and retest. Now you should get very little resistance (close to zero). The switch simply connects the two wires when it is activated. To test the wires, use the 12v setting and test between each wire and a good ground point on the bike (battery - works if needed). You should get 12V on one wire with the key on, 0v on that same wire with the key off. The other wire should be 0v no matter what the key position is. Next use the Ohm setting again, and test between each wire and ground (with the key off). You should have close to zero on the wire that had 0v, and yoiu should get no reading on the wire that had 12v with the key on. I thought the same thing. The switch is getting no power at all with the key off so how could it drain the battery? No brake lights with the key off=no power. I will test the switch, though. As for the wires, I tested them right at the connectors (after pulling them from the switch) with the key off and got 0 volts and 2 Ohm. Check your Tender pigtail plug connector. I found out that these connectors can develop corrosion over time and I would sometimes find my tender still on the charge light even after being connected for a while. I just plug and unplug the connector a few times to break the corrosion and restore the charging to the battery. A little bit of dielectric greas in the connectr points should also help.Beck 95 VFR The tender connectors are shiny and new. It's only 2 months old and has never been in temps below 60 degrees. Its possible the battery could still be an issue. Regardless of its age, it may have been discharged to the point it is no good. I have had 2 batteries that my tender indicated full charge, volt meter showed 13+ volts and would start the bike 2 or 3 times then crank no more. A another thing you may want to check is parasitic drain, disconnect the ground from battery, Switch your meter to ml amp, black or - probe on battery ground, the red or + on battery ground wire. Honda service manual section 16 page 7, 1.2 mA max draw. I should mention you want the key off when doing this test. If you have more draw than 1.2 mA, pull fuses one at a time until you find the heavy user. this I think will get you on the right circuit to locate the short. PS don't give up on her yet, She's way to much fun!! Flip I will check the battery as you have suggested with the tester. Just use your voltmeter to check the battery voltage every few days while its in the bike. 24 hours after the full charge it should settle down to a "resting voltage" of around 12.8 volts, or so. After a week it might drop to 12.7 or 12.6 If it drops faster/lower than that you might have something drawing current in the wiring or the battery itself is starting to go. I will do this also. At present I have the battery back in the bike, not on the tender and have pulled the front brake switch wires. I have not heard back from the PO regarding the pulled wires and any past issues and I don't expect that he will respond. I will try what is suggested above as best I can. I'm not going to disassemble the bike (again) to trace those wires. Due to work, my free time is very limited. This whole thing could be coincidence but it just seems so odd that this would happen just a few days after I connected those wires back up to the brake switch. The battery tender did read both charging and charged yesterday, that's what got my attention. But, it charged the battery just fine with it out of the bike. Too many damn variables here. I could go buy a new battery, battery tender, leave the suspect wires disconnected and wait a while. Then, connect them back up and see what happens. For now I'm going to let it sit for a week and see if the battery drains itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 7, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 7, 2009 Update: For the past 4 days I’ve had the battery in the bike (connected, of course) but no battery tender and I also pulled the front brake switch wires. On each day I took a voltmeter reading and it’s ranging between 12.6-12.7 volts. If the battery is toast, would it be dead by now? Should I wait longer to connect the front brake switch wires or go ahead and hook them up to see fit that drains the battery? Also, the PO replied to my email and said that he never had any electrical issues with the bike at all. I'm starting to suspect my Craftsman battery tender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checksix Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Voltage sounds ok. Charge it up again with the battery tender and repeat the test, this time with the brake switch connected. See if you get the same results. If so, you can probably rule out a wiring issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 7, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 7, 2009 Will do and thank you. I'll charge it overnight and hook those wires up in the morning. I'm praying that it's the battery tender. If it is, that's what I get for going cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2009 Ok guys, now I'm thoroughly baffled. I re-connected the front brake switch wires and let the bike sit for 5 days. I tested the battery each day and it ranged from 12.7-12.6 volts every time I tested it. I fired the bike up for a few seconds today and it started right up. The PO and I have been emailing back and forth and he said that battery was only a few months old when I purchased the bike and that he never had any electrical issues except for a burned out signal bulb the entire 6 years he owned it. Do I look to my $20 Sears Craftsman battery tender/charger as the culprit? Something drained that battery in a matter of days a few weeks back and I'm totally perplexed. Could a defective battery tender drain a battery instead of charging it? I'm very hesitant to hook it back up to the bike again. C'mon all you electrical gurus, toss out some thoughts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checksix Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Maybe something simple like you plugged in your charger to an outlet that switched off when you turned off your room lights at the wall switch? Or you hooked up the leads backwards? (I'm not sure if either of these would discharge the battery). If you don't trust the charger, spend a few more dollars and get one of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I wouldnt rule out the charger, if the charger doesnt go to "float" mode, you can very easily cook the battery, or if it prematurely goes to float it could not be charging at all. Have had issues with faulty connections as mentioned earlier. Why not buy/borrow a Battery Tender ($32 if you shop them) and buy piece of mind and see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2009 Maybe something simple like you plugged in your charger to an outlet that switched off when you turned off your room lights at the wall switch? Or you hooked up the leads backwards? (I'm not sure if either of these would discharge the battery). If you don't trust the charger, spend a few more dollars and get one of these. I'm 100% certain that I didn't hook up the wires incorrectly and the outlet I use is hot 24/7. I'm getting a new charger for sure. I'm just trying to figure out how in the heck the battery discharged in the first place while connected to the charger. There is nothing wrong with the battery, it's held a consistent charge for the last 10-12 days with no assistance from a charger or tender. I wouldnt rule out the charger, if the charger doesnt go to "float" mode, you can very easily cook the battery, or if it prematurely goes to float it could not be charging at all. Have had issues with faulty connections as mentioned earlier. Why not buy/borrow a Battery Tender ($32 if you shop them) and buy piece of mind and see? A new charger is on my list. As mentioned above, the battery seems to be fine, it's holding a charge. I have to take the bike to the dealer to have it state inspected and will have them poke around a bit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bill220 Posted March 4, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 4, 2009 Figured I'd update this thread. As of last Friday, I tested the battery (still in the bike) and it was holding 12.63 volts. On Saturday I rode for an hour or so, parked it and I got a 12.65 reading. On Sunday I rode for almost 3 hours and got 12.63-12.65 reading immediately after shutting the bike off. It runs great, no problem starting or keeping it running, nothing seems amiss. Is this normal? I no longer keep the battery on a battery tender. I charge it a couple of hours every two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer SilverVee Posted March 4, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted March 4, 2009 Figured I'd update this thread. As of last Friday, I tested the battery (still in the bike) and it was holding 12.63 volts. On Saturday I rode for an hour or so, parked it and I got a 12.65 reading. On Sunday I rode for almost 3 hours and got 12.63-12.65 reading immediately after shutting the bike off. It runs great, no problem starting or keeping it running, nothing seems amiss. Is this normal? I no longer keep the battery on a battery tender. I charge it a couple of hours every two weeks. another thing you may want to check is parasitic drain, disconnect the ground from battery, Switch your meter to ml amp, black or - probe on battery ground, the red or + on battery ground wire. Honda service manual section 16 page 7, 1.2 mA max draw. I should mention you want the key off when doing this test. If you have more draw than 1.2 mA, pull fuses one at a time until you find the heavy user. this I think will get you on the right circuit to locate the short. PS don't give up on her yet, She's way to much fun!! Flip Try Flips tip above and check the draw with the brake wires connected and disconnected. I doubt that the brake wiring would have been disconnected if there was no reason. Should you get higher drain with the wires connected it will point you in the right direction. Fault could also be intermittent which is a b**ch to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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