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Question About Transitions


house

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WOW, thanks for all the advice!! I made an important discovery yesterday... it was like a light bulb going off. I was taking Butch's bike back to him (done with this round of mods,) and he has lowered his bike a bit. That coupled with my new riding stance had me whipping through the turns on the way to work about 5 MPH faster than usual. I didn't want to push too hard (I wasn't on my bike after all,) but I noticed how much more confidence I had with a lower center of gravity. I am about 6'2" and just naturally throw the VFR center of gravity up there a bit (Jeremy probably knows what I am talking about.) So today I worked really hard at getting my center of gravity lower (by following the posted advice.) It definately made a difference. I have been just sitting way up on the seat with my head in the clouds and leaning... now I feel like I just slip through a turn instead of dragging the bike around a corner... the difference is HUGE smile.gif I feel like I can keep up with the Vespa riders now :laugh:

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WOW, thanks for all the advice!! I made an important discovery yesterday... it was like a light bulb going off. I was taking Butch's bike back to him (done with this round of mods,) and he has lowered his bike a bit. That coupled with my new riding stance had me whipping through the turns on the way to work about 5 MPH faster than usual. I didn't want to push too hard (I wasn't on my bike after all,) but I noticed how much more confidence I had with a lower center of gravity. I am about 6'2" and just naturally throw the VFR center of gravity up there a bit (Jeremy probably knows what I am talking about.) So today I worked really hard at getting my center of gravity lower (by following the posted advice.) It definately made a difference. I have been just sitting way up on the seat with my head in the clouds and leaning... now I feel like I just slip through a turn instead of dragging the bike around a corner... the difference is HUGE smile.gif I feel like I can keep up with the Vespa riders now :laugh:

That's great Will,

Lowering your CG is the fastest way to quicken turn in, increase stability and confidence. The easiest & smoothest way to lower you CG is with your upper body. You don't really even need to lean towards the inside of a turn, if you just sit still in the seat but lean forward you will do two things: unlock your elbows(unweighted arms) and lower your CG. You should feel an instant improvement in feel and confidence. Adding a lean towards the inside(along with leaning forward) will lower the CG even more and the lower the CG the easier it is to transition the bike! :laugh:

Hanging off with you butt is an excellent way to achieve dropping of the CG, BUT it takes much more coordination, muscle groups and time to do so and if you are not proficient at it you are More likely to upset the bike then help. This is why I suggest most riders(street) focus only on upper body movement as it achieves similar results, is easier to learn and can be done smoother with less practice then hanging off.

Once you become proficient in this technique (UPPER BODY) weighting, then you can add lower body (advanced technique) leaning, if needed!

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WOW, thanks for all the advice!! I made an important discovery yesterday... it was like a light bulb going off. I was taking Butch's bike back to him (done with this round of mods,) and he has lowered his bike a bit. That coupled with my new riding stance had me whipping through the turns on the way to work about 5 MPH faster than usual. I didn't want to push too hard (I wasn't on my bike after all,) but I noticed how much more confidence I had with a lower center of gravity. I am about 6'2" and just naturally throw the VFR center of gravity up there a bit (Jeremy probably knows what I am talking about.) So today I worked really hard at getting my center of gravity lower (by following the posted advice.) It definately made a difference. I have been just sitting way up on the seat with my head in the clouds and leaning... now I feel like I just slip through a turn instead of dragging the bike around a corner... the difference is HUGE smile.gif I feel like I can keep up with the Vespa riders now :blush:

That's great Will,

Lowering your CG is the fastest way to quicken turn in, increase stability and confidence. The easiest & smoothest way to lower you CG is with your upper body. You don't really even need to lean towards the inside of a turn, if you just sit still in the seat but lean forward you will do two things: unlock your elbows(unweighted arms) and lower your CG. You should feel an instant improvement in feel and confidence. Adding a lean towards the inside(along with leaning forward) will lower the CG even more and the lower the CG the easier it is to transition the bike! :laugh:

Hanging off with you butt is an excellent way to achieve dropping of the CG, BUT it takes much more coordination, muscle groups and time to do so and if you are not proficient at it you are More likely to upset the bike then help. This is why I suggest most riders(street) focus only on upper body movement as it achieves similar results, is easier to learn and can be done smoother with less practice then hanging off.

Once you become proficient in this technique (UPPER BODY) weighting, then you can add lower body (advanced technique) leaning!

Best Street Riding answer so far............. :laugh: ...."The Old Fart".......... :blink:

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will, at your size and assuming weight to go with it, have you upgraded your suspension? while all said previously is correct, if your suspension is setup factory, it will be quite difficult to keep the bike settled as you ratchet up the speed.

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will, at your size and assuming weight to go with it, have you upgraded your suspension? while all said previously is correct, if your suspension is setup factory, it will be quite difficult to keep the bike settled as you ratchet up the speed.

+1

Im upgrading my suspension as I type.. F4 rebuilt/sprung rear shock... As soon as it is ready i will order new front springs n valves..

Didnt like the weeble wobble effect swinging from a left to right curve with no strait to settle the bike on the last Skuuter crawl.. If you watch my video "Skuuter finds the twisties" you will notice the bobble... Right curve then transition to a left i run inside almost blowing the curve from the weeble wobble of the bike between turns...

Yikes 1 of my biggest gripes is people blowing corners and i almost did.. And yes i am very used to very twisty roads so that wasnt the issue....

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will, at your size and assuming weight to go with it, have you upgraded your suspension? while all said previously is correct, if your suspension is setup factory, it will be quite difficult to keep the bike settled as you ratchet up the speed.

Nope... I'm all stock... haven't adjusted anything yet. My friend down the street works for Traxxion Dynamics and offered to tweak the stock settings for me if I can drop by the shop. I think I will start by letting his team look me and the bike over, dial in some good settings, and then see what aftermarked suspension stuff the reccommend. I gotta pay Dymos2000 for a set of Lasers, then I can put some cash into the suspension. I don't know if Butch had suspension work done, but I loved the way his bike rode. Hard to believe that I have put in over 21,000 miles on VFRs and never touched the suspension... but that's how it's played out.

Now you can say... "Yeah, I know that guy! He rides much better now that he changed the settings!" smile.gif

Watch out Vespa riders... I just might pass you out on the road :rolleyes:

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will, at your size and assuming weight to go with it, have you upgraded your suspension? while all said previously is correct, if your suspension is setup factory, it will be quite difficult to keep the bike settled as you ratchet up the speed.

Nope... I'm all stock... haven't adjusted anything yet. My friend down the street works for Traxxion Dynamics and offered to tweak the stock settings for me if I can drop by the shop. I think I will start by letting his team look me and the bike over, dial in some good settings, and then see what aftermarked suspension stuff the reccommend. I gotta pay Dymos2000 for a set of Lasers, then I can put some cash into the suspension. I don't know if Butch had suspension work done, but I loved the way his bike rode. Hard to believe that I have put in over 21,000 miles on VFRs and never touched the suspension... but that's how it's played out.

Now you can say... "Yeah, I know that guy! He rides much better now that he changed the settings!" smile.gif

Watch out Vespa riders... I just might pass you out on the road :biggrin:

I think you said the other bike was lowered. Lowering a bike gives it less leverage to work the suspension. When the sprung weight drops to a lower point between the axle centers, it effectively "stiffens" the bike, making it seem to have firmer suspension. Raising the sprung weight gives it more leverage to work the suspension, making the bike seem "softer". A bike that's lowered transfers weight less than stock or raised. The lowered bike probably seemed firmer for your size. Roughly, once you transfer the swingarm to the point of parallel to the road, weight transfer stops....this being the point of maximum traction, especially "rear bite". Lowered bikes handle great...to a point. A stiffer sprung bike with the rear raised will transfer weight better/longer for a better maximum traction point with a large rider. In a nutshell....you can go faster because the suspension can drive the rear tire into the road on acceleration harder/longer before the maximum traction point is reached.

That being said..."most riders" never reach twisty road speeds that require that much transfer............. :rolleyes:

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No doubt a properly set-up suspension with at least the right rate springs can make a huge difference in how our bikes handle(any bike really), but a VFR with all it's stock components in good working order can go amazingly quick especially if your a smooth rider.

I think it's wiser to develop riding skills first before spending money on suspension Mods or power increases.

A skilled rider can ride most anything quick, the best set-up bike in the world can only be ridden as well as the riders skill level allows. :biggrin:

Develop the rider first, that helps every aspect of the riders experience including survival. :unsure:

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Will, I would guess you are using too much upper body to make the transistion. This puts unwanted input into the front end of the bike. Use your lower body (quads & abdominal) to shift the weight over and dont pull up w/ your arms. If your doing it right your quads will be sore after a long day of twisties. Like BR says its not really necessary to do this on the street but its a good skill to have when needed.

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No doubt a properly set-up suspension with at least the right rate springs can make a huge difference in how our bikes handle(any bike really), but a VFR with all it's stock components in good working order can go amazingly quick especially if your a smooth rider.

I think it's wiser to develop riding skills first before spending money on suspension Mods or power increases.

A skilled rider can ride most anything quick, the best set-up bike in the world can only be ridden as well as the riders skill level allows. :biggrin:

Develop the rider first, that helps every aspect of the riders experience including survival. :unsure:

Yep.....a "bad", or inexperienced rider on the latest, greatest Ohlins stuff out there matched to his weight, etc. on a CBR race replica bike would do good to keep up with a "good" or experienced rider on a 250 Ninja on super tight, technical roads..............yes, the rider is the most important part that needs to be dialed in............... :fing02:

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  • 3 weeks later...
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This information has been most helpful.

Pointing your inside shoulder into the turn

Putting your head right up there with the mirrors

Countersteering for sure

Thanks for all your insights.

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Guest Pete McCrary

If they are super tight back to back right-lefts (such as War Woman Rd), don't worry about weight shifting. Just stay centered on the bike and counter steer it. Unless you are super in shape, you really don't have time to be shifting from side to side. War Woman is an excellent example. Another road where this applies is Old Browntown Rd off of Roy Road east of Ellijay, GA if any of you know that area. It is a first gear, super-moto type road. The VFR eats it up.

One last thing on bike set up: Is your bike rear heavy? 99% of Japanese street bike respond favorably to having the rear end raised. This applies to the VFR, SV650, and ZRX1100/1200. I've owned them all.

A good way to check your front to rear balance is to read your chicken strips. If you're taking the rear tire all the way to the edge and you still have a one inch chicken strip on the front tire, you're way too low in the rear. The difference in chicken strip width between the front and rear tires should only be about a quarter of an inch for a properly balanced bike. Jack the rear end up until the front chicken strip is only about a quarter to an eighth of inch less than the rear chicken strip.

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  • 13 years later...

Late to the party here but I like this particular video on the subject - there are quite a few.   The older I get, the harder it becomes to constantly push myself out of the seat constantly over the course of a long day of riding hard.  I don't so much "hang off" these days as much as "scoot a cheek".   It's more of a slide if anything but I never lose contact with the seat.  As the video below suggests, it's more about the upper body and head position.  This guy also does some good videos on trail braking, which I have also used to reduce my lean angles.   I find my 2014 VFR to require more "incentive" to get it transitioning into and between corners - at least compared to my R1, but even my older Sprint ST's felt more agile.   I find myself using my outside leg and arm for leverage more - again this video covers some of that as well and underscores some of the differences at the track.   

 

 

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Brilliant advice from the community as usual. If I understand the OP correctly, the issue is about how to transition hung off one side to the other quickly. I'll leave well alone the question of whether hanging off is necessary or desirable on the road; I do sometimes and on rough surfaces it often helps stabilise the chassis provided the legs are carrying the body weight.

 

For a quick transition, bring the hung off leg back to the tank, grip the tank with both legs and slide the butt  to the other side while also repositioning the upper body keeping the arms relaxed, then drop the leg on the side you've transitioned too. Tank grips really help. Ditto all the other points about keeping the CofG low.

 

Track training really is to be recommended but for a good read try the Haynes book 'Performance Riding Techniques by Andy Ibbott ( Foreword by Keith Code). ISBN 978 1 84425 697 6. Hope that helps

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