Gen. 6th Vfr: The Brake Lines Are Now Runnging Through The Swingarm!

[2FAST4U]

Okay, something I've been wanting to do for some time finally got done. Kudos to Seb for actually having done the work. What I've basically got here are before and after pics. I'm sure Seb will chime in in a little bit to show the steps along the way (and explain a few things as well.) To our knowledge this had never been done on any VFR with an LBS.

Before:

After:

There was already a hole here (used to mount the stock chainguard.) Since I was no longer using the stock chainguard, this hole was just basically there with the plastic screw in it. Seb made the hole a little wider to accommodate the (braided) brake lines.

This is the underside of the swingarm. There was already a hole down here, too. He used the existing hole to run one of the brake lines through and drilled another for the second brake line. I asked him to put some black shrink tube on it to get it to blend in with the wheel. Note: Seb turned the banjo bolts around 180 degrees.

Brake lines? What brake lines! It looks infinitely cleaner back here.

Notice how it looks cleaner from this side, too.

Before:

After:

I'm still undecided about the chainguard, but I'm having Seb paint it black and I'm pretty sure it's gonna go back on. While I was there, Seb cut and shaped my Thurn chainguard to make it look more like this:

When Seb and I finished lunch and drove back to his place (Greene county, New York), we noticed a fellow rider's bike broke down on the side of the road. We pulled over and noticed the bike had motor oil splashed about in the area just in front of the rear wheel. Bad news. We lifted his bike onto the bed of Seb's truck and took it to this motorcycle shop across the Rip Van Winkle bridge on the Hudson river. Very scenic! I felt bad for this guy because he was really nice and said he had already spent a lot of money on his bike. It was a Suzuki Katana (a '91, I think).

[SEBSPEED]

Steve, you beat me to the punch. Still trying to upload your supersize images and resize them!! :laugh:

I coulda sworn I got all the burrs outta there... problem is, the swingarm is over 1/4" thick in that spot, makes it hard to get inside that 1/2" hole to deburr! Forgot I had an "inanout" tool here. :blush:

More pics are coming, now everyone nows what the heck the brake bleeding thread was about! LOL!

As also described in this thread: Click Here

Steve (KeystoneVFR) contacted me about wanting to clean up the look of the rear of his bike by routing the brake lines through the swingarm. I suggested that he use aftermarket stainless steel lines and fittings for a few reasons.

- they perform better than stock.

- they're cheaper than stock(both stock lines from RonAyers cost ~$85, total cost of our lines and fittings was ~$75).

- there are options for line colors and fittings to suit different looks/themes.

- more importantly, they are smaller in diameter than the stock lines, meaning they could be routed through smaller holes(less material removed from the swingarm).

The biggest "pro" to going with the stainless lines and personally assembling them, is that it allows for the smallest possible holes in the swingarm. The two fittings that connect to the bike are installed on two line ends, and attached to the bike. The lines are then routed through one of the factory chainguard locations(slightly enlarged), and through to the back of the swingarm. One line will come out of an existing hole that is slightly enlarged to 1/2". The other is routed out of a new 1/2" hole drilled 1" forward of the existing hole. The banjos ends are then connected to the ends of the lines, and bolted to the caliper.

Start by getting the bike in a secure position with the rear wheel off the ground. You can probably get away with using the centerstand for this. I put Steve's bike on a lift, and locked the front wheel in, then put a scissor jack under the headers. Next remove the rear wheel, the footrest, and the chainguard.

Next you will empty the rear brake reservoir and then bleed the rear caliper to get the fluid out, so you can remove the stock brake lines without making a mess. Have a roll of shop towels and some soapy water handy in case you do. Brake fluid is nasty stuff, and will eat your paint! I use rinsed-out milk and water jugs as catch-alls for this kind of stuff.

Remove the banjo bolts at the caliper:

Then the other ends on the bike. One is the block under the seat, use a 10mm wrench:

The other is a banjo at the PC valve up by the battery(the one with the bleeder nipple on top).

Remove the lines from the bike. Now is a good time to remove the bracket from under the hub locking bolt:

Also a good time to clean your swingarm!

Next you'll need to drop the swingarm down to allow clearance for your drill. Do so by removing the triangle plates that connect the swingarm, shock, and dogbone linkage:

Now the fun really begins. Get out you favorite power tool and open the forward inside chainguard mount hole to 5/8". I got that number by measuring the diameter of the SS hose, multiplying by 2, and adding a little wiggle room. For this I used two Unibit step drills. First to 1/2", then 5/8". Come to think of it, I may have gone one size over 5/8". You will have to drill and see. Check by inserting two pieces of hose side by side and ensure that they will be allowed movement with binding or hanging up on the edges of the hole.

Then prop the swingarm up nice and high wit ha box or a jack, and find the existing hole at rear underside of the arm, by the hub. Open that hole to 1/2". Then measure ~1" forward of that hole, and in the middle of the flat area of the arm, drill another 1/2" hole. I started by drilling with a #30(1/8") aircraft length drill(6"), then popped the unibit back in and opened to 1/2".

**Use a deburring tool or whatever you've got and clean the edges of the holes, inside and out. Run your pinky around the edges. If it gets cut, guess what? so will your new lines... **I am also investigating an extra step to remove the drill chips from inside the arm, may have to pull the hub for this mod, to get a vacuum hose in there.

I had bought a 20' length of -3 hose(it's also available by the foot), so at this point I pulled the roll out and measured a length of it to the shorter of the two factory lines. Then I held it to the bike to mock the routing and adjusted the length by eye a bit, leaving a few inches excess, and cut it to length.

I attached the flared fitting adapter, which adapts the flared fitting on the bike(that used to go into the block) to the -3 hose on the other side. Attached that to the bike. Then(this is important!!) I made a small cut in the clear coating on the hose, at the caliper end, and tied about a foot of 150lb test fishing line to the end of the hose.

Here's were you might start banging your head on the wall with this project. You have to push the line into the big hole at the front of the arm:

...And fish it out through one of the small holes you drilled on the other end:

This can take a few minutes(!!), so be patient. Steve helped me do this, my initial idea had been to use my handy flexible grabber tool, but it wasn't doing the trick, so we switched to a piece of wire and pliers...

Repeat for the other line. Be liberal when measuring the hose length. Both of these hoses ended up shorter than the stock lines, so buy at least that amount of hose to start with.

Next, trim your lines to length, with the swingarm in its lowest position(all the way down)! If you don't do this, your lines won't be long enough, and something very bad will happen!

Attach the banjo fittings to the hose ends, and install them (with new crush washers) on the caliper. Steve was going for the stealth look, so we added some heat shrink tubing before attaching the banjos.

Bleed the brakes and be done! :fing02:

*One last note*

I do not consider Steve's project 100% complete yet, I am sourcing 3 black plastic plugs(similar to a steering stem plug) to install in the drilled holes. These will act as guides and guard the hoses from the edges of the holes.

So in the future, I would add those plugs to this parts list -

Parts list:

- 6000031 Earl's -3 hose, coated (approx. 9', $26.91)

- 640603 Earl's -3 Straight female 10mm x 1.0mm IF(inverted flare) adapter, steel (QTY 1, $9.36)

- 601103 Earl's 20 degree -3 side non-adjustable banjo; steel (QTY 2, $8.24ea)

- 601203 Earl's 20 degree -3 side adjustable banjo, steel ( QTY 1, $11.72ea)

If I had to do this again, I would use (1) 601103 non-adjustable banjo at the PCV valve, and (2) -3 straight banjos at the caliper. In their new routing positions, the side bend banjos are not required at the caliper. This would bring the cost down by a few bucks.

Total as listed above, ~$75. I do not have the exact lengths of the hoses we cut, as they were in the swingarm when we trimmed them, and were NOT taking them back out to measure!! 9' is a good safe estimate. I had bought 20', so I could use the rest on my VF750 project(brake and clutch lines), I can measure what I have left and the pieces we cut off to get a better idea, assuming that the bulk hose was cut to exactly 20'.

The fittings are available in various anodized colors like blue, black, and red(or a mix of colors), at a higher cost. (Almost double, but they sure look cool!)

[SEBSPEED]

Here's the before and (almost) after pics of the chainguard:

[2FAST4U]

A separate "How To" would be best, IMO. Question: I didn't see an ABS ring in the back, is that correct? Is this another, "oh, you've got ABS? sorry, you can't do it" mod.

Also, would there be any issue should I not want to use braided? Is this a personal choice or a line protection idea going through the arm.

Looking forward to your write up.

You are correct in that my bike is non-ABS. Stock brake lines cannot be used because there's no easy way to remove and recrimp the banjo bolts with them. Actually, it's my understanding that it can be done with stock brake lines but it would require using expensive equipment most people don't have (again, because of the bano bolt thing.)

The cool thing about braided brake lines is A) they're superior to the stockers, B) aren't all that expensive, C) are available in various colors to suit one's taste, and D) they do a better job of protectecting the lines going in and out of the swing arm.

As for whether or not this mod can be done on an ABS model, I don't know. Seb can answer that.

[2FAST4U]

Depends on who you hire to do the install... some assembly required! I made the hoses from scratch with bulk-length -3 Earl's line and Earl's fittings, that stuff cost $75, but there are more colorful options available for fittings, and they cost more.

Seb, call me stupid but who is this Earl guy you speak of and waht special tools does he require? I'm really interested in this, except I'ld put some kind of gaurd on the chain.

Keystone, Looks amazing though, gaurd or not

Earl's is a brand.

http://www.holley.com/index.asp?division=Earls

[SEBSPEED]

You forgot to mention we went for a ride! :fing02:

[2FAST4U]

We had a lot of fun riding Sunday. I couldn't believe just how beautiful upstate New York is. Seb kept smoking me in the twisties. He's a more experienced rider than I am, but in all fairness to me, I was seeing gravel on a lot of curves. Everytime I saw some, all I could think of was what you see below.

Anybody like the Eagles? I'm listening to some stuff from their debut album right now. Man, I breathe this stuff!

These were taken during my pre-digital camera days (that's why the quality isn't all that great.)

[FotoMoto]

Love the brake line mod :fing02: :laugh: but not so much the chain guard chop. The end section that was cut off catches a greatest amount of goo according to the ones I've had the pleasure of cleaning over the years (only surpassed by the front cover). It does look better (cleaner lines) tho'.

[SEBSPEED]

Love the brake line mod :fing02: :beer: but not so much the chain guard chop. The end section that was cut off catches a greatest amount of goo according to the ones I've had the pleasure of cleaning over the years (only surpassed by the front cover). It does look better (cleaner lines) tho'.

Steve's solution to the shorter chainguard:

:goofy:

Here's a pic of the bulk line and the heat shrink tubing:

The heat shrink tubing is 3/8" black polyolefin.

[SEBSPEED]

Nice work guys. Really cleans the back end. Question though. Whats involved in attaching the banjo bolts to the steel lines? Is it pretty straight forward or are there a few tricks youve learned along the way. This looks like a mod I would attempt :beer:

:fing02: :goofy:

[HispanicSlammer]

Moved to feature, however two topics on the same topic? I merged to feature both togther - lets make it simple guys - one topic!! Moved sebs up to the first page by merging his post with his first one.

[Auspanglish]

Seb, and anyone else thinking to do this... just get an industrial strength vacuum cleaner and jam the hose opening up against the hole, should do the trick. You'll hear the flakes going up the hose.

Here's a suggestion... when you open out the diameter on the existing holes and fully drill the new one.. why no do it so the holes go at an angle... I know it's thick stuff but, if the holes angled forward (bottom to top) the lines wouldn't have to negotiate such a sharp bend and wouldn't run the risk of kinking (braided lines btter than OEM for this reason too), and also wouldn't rub on a 90º angled edge!!!

Just my 0.02 cents' worth... the thickness may be an impediment to this idea, I'm sure Seb can confirm whether it's possible.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Auspañol

[SEBSPEED]

Here's a suggestion... when you open out the diameter on the existing holes and fully drill the new one.. why no do it so the holes go at an angle... I know it's thick stuff but, if the holes angled forward (bottom to top) the lines wouldn't have to negotiate such a sharp bend and wouldn't run the risk of kinking (braided lines btter than OEM for this reason too), and also wouldn't rub on a 90º angled edge!!!

Just my 0.02 cents' worth... the thickness may be an impediment to this idea, I'm sure Seb can confirm whether it's possible.

Glad you mentioned that, because I forgot to. That's another case of "next time I'll know better". You'd almost have to remove the swingarm and use a milling machine to make a perfect hole at the right angle, but it could be done not-quite-so-nicely with a carbide burr on a straight die grinder, or crudely by drilling the hole, then switching to a smaller bit and angling it into the hole while drilling.

There is plenty of slack in the hose inside the arm, and enough room inside to where the bend isn't as sharp as you may think.

VFRCAPN - Mike, take a look at your stock chainguard. How many fastener locations does it have? The VTEC has four, I would think they are the same part number? The entrance hole for the lines in this mod is the inside forward chainguard mount hole(just in behind the shock, in relation to the bike).

[tok tokkie]

Very nice.

On a 5th gen there is a big hole leading into the SSA when you remove the wheel hub.

Many thanks for the video. I have altered a stainless hose & did not know you cut it with a sharpened chisel. I Dremelled through the braiding which spread it out & it was EXTREMELY difficult getting the nut over the braids after that. Now I know for next time.

[2FAST4U]

I carefully cut the heat shrink off with a razor blade (remember, it wasn't necessary in the first place; I asked Seb to put it on to get the brake lines to blend in with the rear wheel.)

This is one of the fasteners that came with the Thurn chain guard. It bolts onto the top of the chain guard and secures the brake lines.

I removed one of the rubber pieces and, with a razor blade, shortened it and trimmed the edges.

This is a temporary fix. The rubber strip is neither glued to the brake line nor the SSSA. I did the same for the other hole, but the picture I took showing both didn't come out too well. Since they're in there kind of snug and the brake line isn't a moving part, it'll be adequate until we find a permanent solution.

What do you guys think? I went to the sign shop that did my rim stripes and we picked out a color that was as close to the black/gray metallic used on the Honda logo on the gas tank. He then laser cut the "RC46" out of the sheet he ordered. Total cost was $37 (including installation; yes, there's one on the other side.) I'm pleased with the quality of the work I've gotten from them (Signs by Tomorrow.) If you live near Philadelphia, give 'em a call and ask for Chris (tel. 610-407-7020). As always, I welcome all comments.

[Veefer800Canuck]

This is a temporary fix. The rubber strip is neither glued to the brake line nor the SSSA. I did the same for the other hole, but the picture I took showing both didn't come out too well. Since they're in there kind of snug and the brake line isn't a moving part, it'll be adequate until we find a permanent solution.

Rubber firewall grommets!

http://www.ronfrancis.com/wiringaids.htm

[Stéphane]

Parts list:

- 6000031 Earl's -3 hose, coated (approx. 9', $26.91)

- 640603 Earl's -3 Straight female 10mm x 1.0mm IF(inverted flare) adapter, steel (QTY 1, $9.36)

- 601103 Earl's 20 degree -3 side non-adjustable banjo; steel (QTY 2, $8.24ea)

- 601203 Earl's 20 degree -3 side adjustable banjo, steel ( QTY 1, $11.72ea)

If I had to do this again, I would use (1) 601103 non-adjustable banjo at the PCV valve, and (2) -3 straight banjos at the caliper. In their new routing positions, the side bend banjos are not required at the caliper. This would bring the cost down by a few bucks.

Ok, I've got a few questions for you: 640603 is female? Are you sure? The block is female, so this fitting would have to be male, no?

2- My bike is de-linked, so I wouldn't need the "return line". Could you tell me which fittings I would need?

3- Since I only need one line, do I still need to drill holes?

Thanks,

SG

[SEBSPEED]

Ok, I've got a few questions for you: 640603 is female? Are you sure? The block is female, so this fitting would have to be male, no?

No, I did not alter the factory hard line. It is being used as stock, 640603 replaces the block.

2- My bike is de-linked, so I wouldn't need the "return line". Could you tell me which fittings I would need?

Not sure, I haven't given much thought to de-linking. If you can described your setup to me, maybe add a little diagram, I can help.

3- Since I only need one line, do I still need to drill holes?

No, but you will want to open two existing holes up a bit to make room. I would open to at least double the diameter of the brake line, in our case 1/2"(13mm). Please see my notes above on what I would the next time around. great benefit can be found in angling the exit hole(s) on the underside of the swingarm.

Thanks,

SG

Any other questions, let me know!

[Auspanglish]

Parts list:

- 6000031 Earl's -3 hose, coated (approx. 9', $26.91)

- 640603 Earl's -3 Straight female 10mm x 1.0mm IF(inverted flare) adapter, steel (QTY 1, $9.36)

- 601103 Earl's 20 degree -3 side non-adjustable banjo; steel (QTY 2, $8.24ea)

- 601203 Earl's 20 degree -3 side adjustable banjo, steel ( QTY 1, $11.72ea)

If I had to do this again, I would use (1) 601103 non-adjustable banjo at the PCV valve, and (2) -3 straight banjos at the caliper. In their new routing positions, the side bend banjos are not required at the caliper. This would bring the cost down by a few bucks.

Ok, I've got a few questions for you: 640603 is female? Are you sure? The block is female, so this fitting would have to be male, no?

2- My bike is de-linked, so I wouldn't need the "return line". Could you tell me which fittings I would need?

3- Since I only need one line, do I still need to drill holes?

Thanks,

SG

If you onl ave one line you would only need to widen the existing holes from what I understood. But, if you've only one line... does that mean your rear calliper is only running two pistons? I thought the second line wasn't a "return" line, but a "sending" line from the PCV valve... running the third piston when you apply the front brakes...

[Stéphane]

Parts list:

- 6000031 Earl's -3 hose, coated (approx. 9', $26.91)

- 640603 Earl's -3 Straight female 10mm x 1.0mm IF(inverted flare) adapter, steel (QTY 1, $9.36)

- 601103 Earl's 20 degree -3 side non-adjustable banjo; steel (QTY 2, $8.24ea)

- 601203 Earl's 20 degree -3 side adjustable banjo, steel ( QTY 1, $11.72ea)

If I had to do this again, I would use (1) 601103 non-adjustable banjo at the PCV valve, and (2) -3 straight banjos at the caliper. In their new routing positions, the side bend banjos are not required at the caliper. This would bring the cost down by a few bucks.

Ok, I've got a few questions for you: 640603 is female? Are you sure? The block is female, so this fitting would have to be male, no?

2- My bike is de-linked, so I wouldn't need the "return line". Could you tell me which fittings I would need?

3- Since I only need one line, do I still need to drill holes?

Thanks,

SG

If you onl ave one line you would only need to widen the existing holes from what I understood. But, if you've only one line... does that mean your rear calliper is only running two pistons? I thought the second line wasn't a "return" line, but a "sending" line from the PCV valve... running the third piston when you apply the front brakes...

Here are a few pictures: 1st, no need for the female part, just 2 banjos: (just need to know the angle I should get). Auspañol, you can see on the picture what I did to link the middle piston to the other line.

[SEBSPEED]

So you're going straight from the rear m/c to the caliper? Get (1) 601103, and (1) straight banjo like you've shown in you second pic. When you run the new line out of the bottom of the swingarm, you will have a straight shot at the caliper, no need for an angled piece. Straight is cheaper too! :beer:

[Auspanglish]

Sacrebleu!! very trick indeed... hope it never snags on anything but quite a clever idea there sir...

[2FAST4U]

Tha braided line is definitely the go... whoever it was looking at using the standar rubbe lines... don't do it... you want to avoid kinking at all costs.

I want to do this mod, but don't want to spend the money on new brake lines just yet. Would it be safe to perform this mod using stock brake lines or not?

I know the holes would have to be made bigger than for the braided lines, but is kinking really going to be a problem with the stock lines put through the swingarm?

If so, what are some prices out there you guys have paid for new lines if I were to break down and actually buy some.

The total cost of the parts was less than $75. The stock brake lines not only necessitate larger holes (something you want to avoid) but how are you going to re-attach the banjo bolts? Seb told me it can be done, but only with expensive tools most people don't have (and trust me, Seb's got a lot.)

You're far better off getting braided brake lines. For this particular mod, not only would it cost less, but braided brake lines provide better braking, too. You can also get them in an assortment of colors to suit your tastes. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.

[Guest SeanB]

Cool little mod.

Don't know if you guys have seen the Russel Pro System 2 brake lines, but they would probably make this mod a whole lot easier.

http://www.russellperformance.com/motorcycle/b-pro2.shtml

Just a thought for future reference.

[Guest RRW]

Great mod!

Here's my take on some of the things that have been tossed out concerning this mod.

1. The burrs - The brake lines are braided stainless steel. The aluminum burr is not going to be an issue. The brake line will abrade the swing arm not the other way around. The burr should still be removed though. Just because.

2. The "grommets" you probably want to use are actually nylon snap bushings.

They are available here.STEIN AIR

3. The chips in the swing arm are a "So What". They can stay there until the bike rots away and it makes no difference.

4. The best way to cut the braided lines is to wrap tape around the line, then cut it by mounting in a vise and using a cut off wheel or new hack saw blade. There will be no fraying and life will be good.