frodus Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Well, its been a fun week. We got it running Tuesday and spent all week trying her out, charging it and running around. Friday I went to the Ducati Dealership near the shop and showed it off, let them take it for a ride, they enjoyed it. There were a couple girls there and they were speachless..... its going to be a geekgirl magnet. Anyway, I posted some video on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/frodus17 The accel sucks right now because the gearing is low (4:1) and the batteries are used and pretty tired. She scoots pretty well with a full charge. We're deciding on the next batteries we want to buy (since we have to get a complete new pack to replace the free used bats we got for testing). We'll order a new sprocket from sprocket specialists once we know what kind of power the new pack can put out. Its ongoing, so don't assume this is all she's got... This video was taken Wednesday. Thursday the batteries were charged, and there was a NOTICEABLE improvement. Then we charged them all the way Thursday night, and there was noticeable improvement again... then we tweaked some settings and there was more improvement. With a higher gear ratio like 5 or 6:1 we'll get more acceleration, less top speed. I'm find topping out around 70, as most of my driving is 50mph or below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 So last night, I dropped by Synkromotive to help Ives with some testing. We tried logging with the DataQ again, and it it kept failing, no matter what setting we used. Nothing seemed to help. We unhooked it, and I’m going to contact Customer Service. We need something to compare our measured values to. We spent the rest of the evening getting the Old Tachometer (originally fed off the engine spark), to display the current on the motor side. Its pretty cool, as you give it gas, it displays current at a 50A per 1000rpm resolution. So 200A is 4krpm. I’ll likely print something to display actual A, but its great for testing. Its just a PWM signal to the original Tach line. I’m totally cool with keeping the stock look, infact, I’m HOPING to keep as much of a stock look as possible. Now I need to order a PB-6 to keep my original throttle (and kill switch), order a contactor and get the lights working. David got the bike up to 60mph… wow! It was fresh off the pack, and pulled 300A or so up to 30mph, and then it started to drop… it was roughly half of that at 55mph. Better gearing should help this, as less torque is needed. We’ll keep gearing what it is for now because we’re testing something new every day. I thought it felt kind of like a 250cc, but David said it actually feels more like a 500cc. I think the batteries are waking up a little too, so switching to new ones in the future, with higher current draw is definately going to help. This controller rocks! I got a jacket the other day, and am going to pick up a Helmet this weekend. Insurance won’t be that hard (My agent has been really cool about helping me). Registering it should be ok, but I’ll have to have someone make sure they see it doesn’t have an exhaust/was converted to electric so I can be excluded from DEQ. I’m also going to get a Motorcycle instruction permit… and keep my riding limited to daytime, with a friend. Just need to take the Knowledge test. Now I want another VFR... my friend might let me take his for a spin (another VFR700F).. once I get more experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 very cool to see it running, how is the braking without(I assume) and load braking from the motor? This is a general EV question I guess.... Why don't they use gear boxes to address the gearing issue? It would seem a better use of power, and would allow all available power to be channelled to turning the wheel. Anyone know the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Its not too bad without the engine braking. You can't downshift, but its doable. The v2.0 will be AC and have regen, so I'll get that back. This is just a test rig for now, with options to go AC and Lithium. As far as gearboxes, I can get to 60-70mph on one gear, 100% torque at 0rpm, and a fairly flat torque curve to 40mph, then it starts to fall off, as speed increases. In a car, you need the gearing for the electric motor. With a motorcycle, its not needed as much. I could do something like that for gearing, but thats just adding losses. Each mechanical "link" and electrical "link" adds inefficiency. Add that up, and you get less range. I won't be going much over 55 most of my driving, so I'll be fine. Torque drops off at higher RPM, but not very steeply. One gear reduction, no clutch, flat power curve (unlike an ICE which peaks at 4-6krpm). Comparing electric to ICE is apples and oranges. Consider that 1st gear reduction from the engine is 16.26:1 with the stock vfr700f (roughly) transmission/engine. My ratio is 4:1 right now. 4000rpm on my motor is 1000rpm on the wheel, and about 70mph (by calculations). 5000 is 89mph. In an ICE, at 5000rpm on the engine in 6th gear, you'd be going ~60mph. Stock VFR: Transmission: Six-speed, constant mesh, wet clutch Primary reduction: 2.031 Final reduction: 2.813 Gear Ratios: 1st: 2.846 2nd: 2.063 3rd: 1.632 4th: 1.333 5th: 1.154 6th: 1.036 6th gear final = 5.91:1 1st gear final = 16.26:1 Me: Final Reduction 4:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 So, I decided to work my butt off this last weekend, and prepare the electric motorcycle for its first official public apearance. the OEVA was sponsoring an EV Awareness day downtown Portland on Saturday. I put everything together, cleaned it up, and went down there. Had a blast. It was one of the more popular vehicles there, because it was the only motorcycle, and the only electric sportbike that I know of in this area! Read the blog article for details and some pictures! Just thought everyone would like to see the finished bike. Still have to get it registered and get the lights working, but thats pretty easy stuff. Thanks everyone for the support, its been a long time coming, but the payoff has been great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Its not too bad without the engine braking. You can't downshift, but its doable. The v2.0 will be AC and have regen, so I'll get that back. This is just a test rig for now, with options to go AC and Lithium.As far as gearboxes, I can get to 60-70mph on one gear, 100% torque at 0rpm, and a fairly flat torque curve to 40mph, then it starts to fall off, as speed increases. In a car, you need the gearing for the electric motor. With a motorcycle, its not needed as much. I could do something like that for gearing, but thats just adding losses. Each mechanical "link" and electrical "link" adds inefficiency. Add that up, and you get less range. I won't be going much over 55 most of my driving, so I'll be fine. Torque drops off at higher RPM, but not very steeply. One gear reduction, no clutch, flat power curve (unlike an ICE which peaks at 4-6krpm). Comparing electric to ICE is apples and oranges. Consider that 1st gear reduction from the engine is 16.26:1 with the stock vfr700f (roughly) transmission/engine. My ratio is 4:1 right now. 4000rpm on my motor is 1000rpm on the wheel, and about 70mph (by calculations). 5000 is 89mph. In an ICE, at 5000rpm on the engine in 6th gear, you'd be going ~60mph. Stock VFR: Transmission: Six-speed, constant mesh, wet clutch Primary reduction: 2.031 Final reduction: 2.813 Gear Ratios: 1st: 2.846 2nd: 2.063 3rd: 1.632 4th: 1.333 5th: 1.154 6th: 1.036 6th gear final = 5.91:1 1st gear final = 16.26:1 Me: Final Reduction 4:1 If RPM's mean more amp draw, wouldn't the bike be much easier on the batteries if you had say a two speed gear box? The weight wouldn't be much higher, and the extra mechanical link shouldn't account for much lost power....you certainly aren't at maximum effeciency as it is. I think it look great, and the Portland show must have been fun. I keep watching the blog to see what is changing next. Good luck getting it registered etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'm going to change the gearing, I don't need the top speed, I need it to run efficient at lower speeds. Plus a 2-speed is very expensive. Registering it is the next hurdle, but I've got it titled without an engine, and they said as long as its frame is based on a production vehicle, its no problem. They have to register it as an EV, and I might get discounts from insurance and the state for being emission free. Talked to my insurance person the other day.... shouldn't be too long! Thanks for reading the blog, leave a comment sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Bling Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 ...Registering it should be ok, but I’ll have to have someone make sure they see it doesn’t have an exhaust/was converted to electric so I can be excluded from DEQ. ... Motorcycle are excempt from DEQ testing in the Oregon. The only reason you would need to take a bike down to a DEQ testing center is to get the VIN inspected, but you can have that done at the DMV when you're getting plates for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Excellent results so far, congrats on everything you've achieved so far and hope to see the production models available soon! :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 ...Registering it should be ok, but I’ll have to have someone make sure they see it doesn’t have an exhaust/was converted to electric so I can be excluded from DEQ. ... Motorcycle are excempt from DEQ testing in the Oregon. The only reason you would need to take a bike down to a DEQ testing center is to get the VIN inspected, but you can have that done at the DMV when you're getting plates for it. Oh yeah! I just realized that. I still want to get EV cert, as it'l change insurance... since its no longer a 700cc. The VIN is inspected already, nothing else is really needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 Here's a video that my friend Jim and I shot earlier this week. We have all the fairings on it, and pretty much have the motor mount and battery pack design nailed. We'll be cleaning up the wiring, making some small changes to the mounts, and upgrading the rear sprocket to a 60tooth (ordered 7-18-08). Right now, I'm working on the custom charging system that will be installed as well as the 12V aux system for lighting. Real nice shot at the beginning and end of Jim hitting 50mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rbertalotto Posted July 19, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted July 19, 2008 FANTASTIC! And the work looks top rate! Hows about we start a collection to buy some real batteries. You should put a PayPal link on your site and ask for a few $$ to keep the project going. Lots or folks like to be involved with inquisitive minds such as yours........... Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rbertalotto Posted July 20, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted July 20, 2008 Have you folks seen this.. "How to build an Electric Motorcycle" http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-bui...ric-motorcycle/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rbertalotto Posted July 20, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted July 20, 2008 And a shaft drive Elec conversion http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-bui...ric-Motorcycle/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted July 20, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted July 20, 2008 Brilliant! Let me know when the production model is ready! :fing02: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tuck Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) :fing02: Nice to see people thinking outside the box. Can you call it an EVFR? Or would you even want to, that is the question. Edited July 20, 2008 by tuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer auggius Posted July 20, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted July 20, 2008 Cool! And very timely too as my wife said that she wanted her next bike to be electric. I guess that may be getting closer to reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Good job guys! Can't wait for the long term review with the larger sprocket and also the range... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 :biggrin: Nice to see people thinking outside the box. Can you call it an EVFR? Or would you even want to, that is the question. it actually is called the eVFR.... www.evfr.net EV/ VFR goes together quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 FANTASTIC! And the work looks top rate!Hows about we start a collection to buy some real batteries. You should put a PayPal link on your site and ask for a few $$ to keep the project going. Lots or folks like to be involved with inquisitive minds such as yours........... Good Luck! I'm getting everything legal and running while saving some extra cash for batteries. I could set something up... might not be a bad idea. every little bit helps. Anyone hear about Isle Of Mann TT races? Well someone set up a zero carbon IOM TT races called TTxGP... the founder emailed me and wants to talk.... so, there may be more investment opportunity if it goes that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tuck Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Seriously man, awesome project! :fing02: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dude Posted August 2, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted August 2, 2008 Friggin fantastic A concept put into practice and successful too!!!! Kudo's to you and your team :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFRedleg Posted August 2, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted August 2, 2008 Great project and love the ingenuity, especially using all of the off the shelf components. Any chance you might think about selling a kit once the design is final? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Anyone hear about Isle Of Mann TT races? Well someone set up a zero carbon IOM TT races called TTxGP... the founder emailed me and wants to talk....so, there may be more investment opportunity if it goes that far. I would be honored to race your bike in the TTxGP at the Isle Of Mann ! :fing02: A lighter rider maybe a better route to take though. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer spinalator Posted August 2, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted August 2, 2008 Great project, I am late to the thread as usual, and am happy you recycled the old VFR and did not send it to the crusher. People that are not amused should wake up and realize that we are going to be in a different world now, novel ideas and home inventors may offer solutions that rigid and large corporations may be slow to develop. This is interesting since I rode an electric scooter for the first time last week. Very light, very quiet, a little slow, but OK for puttering around town. The plus is that the city allows you to lock them up beside bicycles so you do not need to pay for parking. A few questions: Do you think you need to stick with a frame size that is similar to get decent motor size, and battery packs? Would a Ninja 250 or 500 be too small? I would think the light weight would help battery life, but the trade off is fewer of them. You may have covered this earlier, but are people giving up on laptop batteries as power sources? I saw a sportscar with laptop batteries on TV and it seemed awkward, but it was easy to swap bad cells in and out. Would small solar panels offer any resonable charging capabilites? Right now the small 2X2" solar lights are on sale ar garden shops, and you can likely stick about 30 of them on the cowling, dash, and top of the tank. Further, you could get a larger flexible solar panel and replace the stock windscreen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.