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1986 Vfr700 Conversion To Electric


frodus

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I figure its about time that I start putting my VFR EV project out there. I was recently featured on Autobloggreen, and I guess I didn't think that many people were interested. But then My website stats jumped quite dramatically... so there's interest. Thought you VFR guys might like to follow the progress, I'm a few weeks away from having it running.

My website is: http://www.evfr.net and there are plenty of pictures, and a blog or two a week since I started last year.

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About the project:

The bike is a 1986 Honda VFR700F that I found in Florida for $400 with no title, in like new condition. Brand new tires, been stored for 10 years with $4270 miles on it. I got it shipped to Oregon for $675, and parted out the engine, exhaust and electrical and just about broke even. The bike was essentially free. The title was lost, but it checked out, so I found another frame for $150 and swapped it after engine removal.

I'm currently working with a company in Portland on building a very robust 600A 156V fully programmable series motor controller. Its in test right now, and we're finalizing the design. We've got a PDA communicating with it for my display. It will display MPH (tach input to controller), motor rpm, battery side voltage and current, motor side current and voltage. It will display each battery voltage in the future. We're also working on battery balancing and charging designs.

A couple months ago I found an Advanced DC K99-4007 motor on a surplus website, and bought 2 of them. They are equivalent to the ADC K91-4003. They max out at around 50 or so ftlbs or torque and 18hp. Its 56lbs and has plenty of thermal mass. max RPM is around 5500. Just need to machine the shaft for a keyway and shorten the shaft.

I also scored 12 18Ah batteries (will do series parallel to get 72V) from another EV Motorcycle guy. They're about 13lbs a piece, for about a 36Ah pack at 72V, and 54Ah at 48V. Still working on how I want to charge and balance them.

Just picked up a Vicor 200W 48V to 12V DC DC converter for my accessories/lights/contactor for $20... score.

So I've got batteries, DC-DC, motor, controller, contactor, rolling chassis. I need to fabricate the motor mount (the Portland guys are helping me), make a battery cage and some battery/motor cables. I'm trying to pick sprockets and think I'll go with a 4:1 ratio. Some guys with eteks/perm132 go 5:1 up to 7:1. Other guys with smaller ADC motors go anywhere from 3.5:1 to 4.5:1. My motor is larger with more power, so 4:1 should be just right. I'm changing from 530 chain (#50) to #40 chain to make it more quiet. Sprocketspecialists have sprockets for me for under $100, and surpluscenter.com has sprockets and nickel chain. I need to start looking for a charger for short term, we're working on distributed charging right now, and its being tested.

So thats about where I am. Comments, critiques appreciated.

Travis Gintz

1986 eVFR

Edited by HispanicSlammer
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Guest grdutchie

Ouch, Sounds like you had a real nice bike there. I am not a big believer in the vehicle emissions caused global debate. I'm all for alternative and better use of resouces but I think motocycles are already more "eco-friendly" than say semi tractors. I guess good luck on one side and on the other I think you ruined a perfectly good bike. No offense meant.

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Cool. Quick. Finish it. :thumbsup: When do you start production?

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The original engine wasn't in good shape, it had been sitting with fuel, the gas tank was rusted, carbs were dry and cracked, and the oil gummed up. it hadn't been run in 10 years. It wasn't a perfectly good bike, plus, no title. there was no way this thing was going to run legally ever again until I bought it.

It would have cost the 150 plus the cost of rebuilding the carbs and couplers, rebuilding the engine. Plus, it was in FL, near the beach, and it was a little corroded inside and out, because he would turn it over every now and then, pull in the salty air, and let it sit for a few months.

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Cool. Quick. Finish it. :thumbsup: When do you start production?

Well, since i've got 2 identical bikes (other one was a 90k+ miles, blown engine for free), 2 motors and time, I'm going to fab both motor mounts, both battery cages, and get them both working.

If anyone is interested, I might be selling the second one when i'm done to pay for another project.

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This sounds like a fun project. Will you be coupling a transmission to take advantage of the incredible torque, and turn it into RPMs?

It will have no transmission (original was integrated too much into the engine to use). it will be a direct drive, with 4:1 ratio, but allow me to change lower or higher (3.5-4.5) if I change the front sprocket. Custom rear sprocket, standard #40 front, with #40 chain. Going smaller to cut down on noise since the front sprocket is going smaller, and rear is going larger. Plus, replacement sprockets are cheaper at #40, as well as the chain.

Electric motors have max torque at 0RPM, and the torque curve is alot more flat, the power band is pretty wide. I'll still have around 20ftlbs at 4-5k rpm, but 50 or 60+ ftlbs at a standing start. Even with the gear ratio being 4:1 (the original has around a 15:1 in first because of the primary reduction, 1st gear ratio and final drive ratio, but has low torque when starting). Hoping to accelerate similar to the original, the motor is huge, 500A capability. Speed = Voltage, Torque = Amps.

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More power to you. I live in Portland too and own a 1994 US Electricar Prism. I've thought a great deal about electric drive for motorcycles. I even bought a Honda Elite scooter to convert before I bought the car. There are definitely great things to come with electric vehicles. If I had a clean sheet of paper for a motorcycle design I'd be going diesel-electric hybrid with the diesel serving solely as a generator. Think of the range!

There are so many engineers here at VFRD I would think your project should generate at least some excitement. Definitely limited in range though, so I'm sure you won't stray much beyond city limits. Why not go with L-Ion?

BTW, for those who believe vehicle emissions are are insignificant contributors to global warming, I suppose it's your right to deliberately mislead yourself, but please read this before commenting here.

EDIT: Just checked out your site. Should have known you were working with Synkromotive :thumbsup:

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Sounds like a great project, but too much electrical mumbo jumbo for my simple mind to comprehend though ! :unsure:

I'm sure all the engineeres around here are playing with themselfs as I type this. :unsure:

That is one sweet looking 86 you found there BTW! :thumbsup:

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Hey there. I wish you luck with your project, although it does not interest me much. When you finish this project, maybe you can help the world switch from diesel trucks and ships to electric. That's the real problem here, not the poor little 700cc bike that just got molested.

Sorry if I said too much, I do wish you a successful end to your bike.

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Good luck, but "WAAAAY" out of my league.................. :unsure:

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step one: getting it to work at 48V

step 2: getting the 72V controller and reconfiguring the battery pack.

step 3: Once this is all dialed in, I will begin looking at LiFePo batteries (Lithium Iron Phosphate) but right now, they're too expensive, but the prices are coming down. They really need off the shelf Battery management systems. Once its lithium, I'll basically be done, but I might tweak here and there with the rest of the bike (like MAYBE a diff rear shock/front forks)... we'll see.

The thing is, this is bike one, bike two will be a similar setup, but with regen capabilities. More or less going to be a test bike, but we may make a track bike out of it, we're still deciding.

So this isn't all that we're doing to this bike, its going to have some pretty cool stuff added to it...

And we're tossing ideas around about propane/gas 1kV generators that can be strapped on the back for charging/extended range.

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you're an engineer, so mathematically calculate the new spring rates you will need at front and rear to compensate for the increased weight. Show your formulae and work.

tyres, too may be inadequate for extra pounds?

may need to drastically change sprocket sizes also.

Edited by squirrelman
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The original engine wasn't in good shape, it had been sitting with fuel, the gas tank was rusted, carbs were dry and cracked, and the oil gummed up. it hadn't been run in 10 years. It wasn't a perfectly good bike, plus, no title. there was no way this thing was going to run legally ever again until I bought it.

I'm so glad you explained this. I'm all about experimentation and electric power but that looked too much like a great copy of my old bike.

Other than that I think an '86 VFR is a great choice for your project. It was ahead of its time when it came out and if you are successful you'll do the VFR proud.

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Guest slowf2337

I think your bike sounds like a very interesting project and an electric track bike would be sweet! I wonder if you could run it in clubman class in Wera! lol The regen system certainly would be very helpful on a sport/city bike. How much of a weight difference is there going to be between the gas version and the electric version?

To the people who don't like the idea. Wouldn't the idea of a nearly silent, smooth, rocket of a bike scare the crap out of the busa types? :salesman:

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<snip>

So thats about where I am. Comments, critiques appreciated.

Travis Gintz

1986 eVFR

Cool project, and ambitious :thumbsup: Not my cup of tea, but it should make for an interesting ride. Since the tank was rusty inside, did you gut the bottom piece for some packaging space? Seems like using just the top stamping would give you some room for...stuff. And shave a bit of weight.

Can you program your PDA to pipe V4 exhaust and cam gear sounds to a set of headphones? :unsure:

Oh, one last thing: Would a VTR-250 be a good place to start? Seems like that would be a lighter bike to start with, and the rear wheel would be set up for a smaller (ie, more efficient) chain drive. What are you doing for final drive, btw? Stock-type sprocket? Toothed belt? Toothed belt would be the cat's azz.

Good luck! And I can't wait to see youtube videos of this thing!

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To the people who don't like the idea. Wouldn't the idea of a nearly silent, smooth, rocket of a bike scare the crap out of the busa types? :salesman:

I thought that I was the only guy around who wanted a quiet bike. I thought that I was the last guy around who has the stock pipe by choice. While I love the growl of our V-4s (and for some of us the whirr of our gear driven cams) the idea of a near silent bike is damn cool. It must be because I've been a bicycle racer for a long time.

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Guest Gap Trash

I think what you are doing is amazing. Although I comprehend very little of it myself. Good luck, can't wait to see the finished product!

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you're an engineer, so mathematically calculate the new spring rates you will need at front and rear to compensate for the increased weight. Show your formulae and work.

tyres, too may be inadequate for extra pounds?

may need to drastically change sprocket sizes also.

just as you replied on VFRworld, I'll explain again

I don't know where I said it was going to be heavier... I just said it wasn't going to have a weight savings.... there's a difference.

Even with lead batteries, its going to be ~75bs LIGHTER than stock dry weight.

Edited by frodus
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<snip>

So thats about where I am. Comments, critiques appreciated.

Travis Gintz

1986 eVFR

Cool project, and ambitious :thumbsup: Not my cup of tea, but it should make for an interesting ride. Since the tank was rusty inside, did you gut the bottom piece for some packaging space? Seems like using just the top stamping would give you some room for...stuff. And shave a bit of weight.

Can you program your PDA to pipe V4 exhaust and cam gear sounds to a set of headphones? :unsure:

Oh, one last thing: Would a VTR-250 be a good place to start? Seems like that would be a lighter bike to start with, and the rear wheel would be set up for a smaller (ie, more efficient) chain drive. What are you doing for final drive, btw? Stock-type sprocket? Toothed belt? Toothed belt would be the cat's azz.

Good luck! And I can't wait to see youtube videos of this thing!

I'm going to guy the bottom of the tank, and let it be a hinged cover for the controller.... thats the plan.

I think the VTR would have been good, but it doesn't have as much room, harder to get parts for, and I didn't see many around.

Final drive will be somewhere around 4:1 maybe closer to 4.5:1 Can't do toothed belt, if I had to replace it, the whole swingarm has to come off....

I went downtown today, we'll start mocking up some motormounts for the new DC motor. I'll at least have 4 of the batteries hooked up to stroll around the parking lot within the next few weeks if all the parts get ordered and shipped on time.

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I went downtown today, we'll start mocking up some motormounts for the new DC motor. I'll at least have 4 of the batteries hooked up to stroll around the parking lot within the next few weeks if all the parts get ordered and shipped on time.

I'll try not to step on Travis' toes here. This project is all his, but I met him down at the shop last night and checked out the bike. It looks like I get to come down and 'hand him wrenches' while he mocks up packaging and builds brackets and racks for the motor, batteries, controller, and charger. He even has an idea for a generator in one "saddlebag" and fuel in another for a range-extending hybrid. The cool thing is that much of the technology is out there already. It just needs to be put together. Vectrix is getting close with this.

Give the industry 5 more years and you'll see a bike with some sort of electric drive that we'd all enjoy riding.

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I went downtown today, we'll start mocking up some motormounts for the new DC motor. I'll at least have 4 of the batteries hooked up to stroll around the parking lot within the next few weeks if all the parts get ordered and shipped on time.

I'll try not to step on Travis' toes here. This project is all his, but I met him down at the shop last night and checked out the bike. It looks like I get to come down and 'hand him wrenches' while he mocks up packaging and builds brackets and racks for the motor, batteries, controller, and charger. He even has an idea for a generator in one "saddlebag" and fuel in another for a range-extending hybrid. The cool thing is that much of the technology is out there already. It just needs to be put together. Vectrix is getting close with this.

Give the industry 5 more years and you'll see a bike with some sort of electric drive that we'd all enjoy riding.

Thanks for coming down last night, it was good finally meeting a member of the VFR community.

hopefully we can get the motor mounted after a couple days of hanging out at the shop. Then we'll throw 4 batteries in and wire it up to test.

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