Vfr1 :-)

[zRoYz]

The way I have changed my mind about what I’m doing with my VTEC has been a saga in itself, a while back some might remember my bike with a RC51 front end. Well that was removed & sold off due to my intent to sell off my VTEC. Mr Honda hasn’t done there later model customers any favors by discounting the VFR to a point you would be silly to by one secondhand. I do like my VTEC (except for the VTEC valves for service but not what they do) so because I didn’t feel the need to give it away I decided to tinker with it instead AGAIN.

I just happened to have a 2005 R1 front end that I had started to gather parts for to install on my VFR750 (thats now has a F4I front end but is being sold). Now with what I had learnt from my RC51 install I knew the geometry I needed to setup the R1 forks & this is where I changed a few things & found out some things which you do when you can’t find anybody that has done same thing. I used a lower triple clamp from a CBR929/954 because there easier to obtain & if you do need in a hurry new due to mishap there $390AU new from Honda where the SP1 is a mind blowing $690AU. I then matched this with the normal CBR929/954 upper triple.

This is where I made a mistake because I’m using Convertibars which mount under top triple clamp because R1 forks are allot shorter than RC51 & I knew there wouldn’t be enough fork to mount clipons above top triple. Well due to fork height I new works from RC51 install I couldn’t slide forks up through triple claps far enough due to Convertibar clamp fouled on fork leg where it starts to tapper thicker. I was able to solve this problem by using the SP1 upper triple clamp which is flat not gullwing & allowed for forks to move up to required length.

Now because I can & bike was off the road I decided full service was needed due to 45000kms on the dial so valve inspection (this is a story in itself but the things I found & the time it took make me laugh when I read complaints about bills, this job is as bad as changing plugs on a V12 Jag). I also took the time out to do some housekeeping so just for the record bellow is list.

Pair valve complete removal (was just blocked off before)

Valves shims 5x VTEC, 3x NORM

Balance starter valves (I did this not that long ago with a borrowed set of gauges which I think were out because I bought my own set of quality ones & starter valves were way out & for the record bike was set to 1200rpm when I started & increased to 3000rpm when finished so had to back off idle big time)

New plugs

R1 front end install

Delink brakes, braided lines front/rear

Fit Motad catless headers

Paint wheels

Paint duct tail (hard to tell 2nd pic, top is black with VFR1 stickers under clear coat)

Fit billet fuel cap, oil cap, foot pegs

With everything I have removed I would est I have saved 10-15kgs weight off the bike but will go to weigh bridge to find out very soon as bike is ready to rock after 2 months mainly waiting for parts. Only thing left to do is dyno remap & I'll be a happy camper.

As far as handling I can't say anything except :thumbsup: better than the RC51 front you bet it is & for the performance the bike now has with all above work & Motard headers which removed the biggest problem a VTEC has. My mate on his Blackbird calls me a bastard when we ride because I just pull away under anything bellow 160kph. He even said I have been leaving faint black lines just on straight line acceleration & can change line mid corner like the thing is on rails & he has my old RC51 front on his Blackbird. Do you think I'm happy well lets just say I don't smile as much having sex as riding this bike at the moment (wife slapped me when I told her she needed an update but I was brave & didn't cry)

Enjoy :thumbsup:

Edited February 25, 2008 by HispanicSlammer

[Guest toplesSV]

wow thats a great looking bike.

Awesome mods.

Im not a fan of the tank pads and corbin seat.

but still looks great.

[Guest vfrrider]

Now I remember why I used the 2000 R1 forks, same length as VFR to the triple clamp. No worries on where to put the bars, etc. I hope you upped the spring rate a little.

Another vote for the forks from the tuning fork people. :thumbsup:

Nice job, I guess the blue wheels will grow on us, maybe?

Larry

VFRrider

[VFR4Lee]

Four barrel shotgun at the rear, and bitchin blue wheels. :idea3:

[zRoYz]

Tank pad & corbin are for touring, standard seat solo cowl has also been resprayed black.

The R1 forks are specials as I do work for a suspension tuner (he does the valving etc, I strip out the shocks forks etc when he needs a hand) the valving is nothing like standard R1 valving & has been specifically designed for road use as I'm the test monkey.

I'm a blue freak sorry all my cars are blue, well even my new tool box that was my xmas gift to myself.

Edited January 5, 2008 by zRoYz

[AussieinUSA]

Looks and sounds great Roy, nice upgrades :thumbsup:

[zRoYz]

thanks :thumbsup:

things couldn't get better at the moment as my VFRD shirts & sticker just turned up in the mail as well.

[turtlecreek]

VERY nice. love the blue. wish i had the talent to do this to mine.

[TimC]

Nice. And nice to know such things can be done. I'm not planning to do this myself, but for folks who want the VFR to ride more like a supersport, this is a good (but not easy) option.

[vfrcapn]

Great work there!

Care to expand on the comparison between the R1 and RC front ends? I have the RC on my '99 currently, would appreciate feedback on the differences.

Bike looks great, blue color, wheels and all. :thumbsup:

[Guest Goanna]

Very nice work Roy, I wish I had your mechanical skills.

Given your work for a suspension tuner, what would you recommend to improve the standard front forks on a fifth gen?

[SAFE-T]

Now put a Ducati final drive in the rear swingarm :idea3:

[zRoYz]

#vfrcapn I will try, the R1 forks can be upgraded internally buy someone that knows there stuff better than most to a point you can get 60 compression settings if you wanted (me thats just way to many but the point is you can) the RC51 fork compression is controlled by the bolt on part on front of fork which means the oil has to travel in a U configuration which does slow response time. So what tends to happen is you find a good compression setting on the RC51 fork that works well but go 1 click up it suddenly feels to hard or 1 click down it feels to soft. The RC51 don't get me wrong is a bloody good simple design fork but it's not cutting edge & with suspension response time for compression & rebound is everything. Now when a suspension tuner (I'm not one I just help out) starts playing with the RC51 forks they have to make a compromise between better compression or better rebound because the design of the fork doesn't lend to valving them both to be great (thats my understanding of what he has told me). Both the RC51 forks & R1 forks have .9 springs.

Now when test riding both I found on the RC51 forks I needed to get my settings spot on to get the best out of them & was always just adding 1 click up/down when the road surface changed allot (like smooth hot mix to bumpy) but not for just general cruising, mainly for spirited riding which is about all I do (my RC51 forks also had valving modifications). The R1 forks perform better over a wider range of settings but I'm still playing with them but already my riding buddy has said my corner entry etc is way faster than before but it doesn't feel any faster. The main thing I have noticed is change of direction mid corner leaned over is pin point & can catch you out with how fast it does it. Example 25kph corner I came in hot, so hot the guy in front that I thought I gave lots of room was about to be part of my front wheel & I was close to #full lean angle. I was able to cut off corner & go the outside (there was room no cars & this guy is my main ride buddy).

Brakes well the RC51 are good but radial are better, hope above sort of made sense.

#Goanna to get the best out of any forks you have to have correct springs for your weight & valving to suit those springs, to many people do springs but forget the valving needs changing to suit, it's all about flow rates. The VFR forks for an extremely simple design are good but they tend to wear out the internal bush the rod slides through which then lets oil leak past the valving (the main rod that looks like bright steel). The standard forks are better setup a little stiffer than normal in the valving as there is no adjustment on the fly & when you start pushing them hard you need that.

#SAFE-T I wish :idea3:

NOTE: I only know what I like from suspension so my comments are based on that & as we are all individuals others may like things much differently, I also know nothing about the modifications to all the valving as thats my friends lot & he don't share his trade secrets with anyone or he would be out of a job.

Edited January 5, 2008 by zRoYz

[Guest TnMts]

Beautiful bike!

Absolutely fantastic sir!!!! :idea3:

[Rivcyko]

Very cool. That seat looks comfy as he!!, too.

[V4 Rosso]

Looks great, well done :thumbsup:

[vfrjim2002]

Very impressive work there Roy. The bike looks great. I've always harbored latent desires to do something like this and always talk myself out of it. (Almost certainly will do so again :pissed: ) Regardless, if you don't mind expanding a little, how did you set up the front wheel? I'm assuming you used an R1 unit, did you encounter any issues with spacing and the like and what did it take to get that sorted?

thanks.

[Baileyrock]

Nicely done, looks great. I love blue too! :thumbsup:

[SEBSPEED]

Very impressive work there Roy. The bike looks great. I've always harbored latent desires to do something like this and always talk myself out of it. (Almost certainly will do so again :pissed: ) Regardless, if you don't mind expanding a little, how did you set up the front wheel? I'm assuming you used an R1 unit, did you encounter any issues with spacing and the like and what did it take to get that sorted?

thanks.

I wanna know too! :pissed:

The bike looks excellent Roy! I like it a lot! How much of Ohlin's technology do you think was incorporated into Yamaha's parts while Yamaha owned them? When you open the forks, are there any similarities with the Ohlins R&T forks?

[zRoYz]

Very impressive work there Roy. The bike looks great. I've always harbored latent desires to do something like this and always talk myself out of it. (Almost certainly will do so again :pissed: ) Regardless, if you don't mind expanding a little, how did you set up the front wheel? I'm assuming you used an R1 unit, did you encounter any issues with spacing and the like and what did it take to get that sorted?

thanks.

I wanna know too! :pissed:

The bike looks excellent Roy! I like it a lot! How much of Ohlin's technology do you think was incorporated into Yamaha's parts while Yamaha owned them? When you open the forks, are there any similarities with the Ohlins R&T forks?

I will post up exactly the parts I used & what I did soon, but the main problem was rotor spacing on the R1 wheel because the R1 rotors are dead flat no off set at all & they locate on wheel sort of 2 ways. 1st is the small tabs on wheel & the 2nd is the rotor bolts are a thread dowel configuration but once you space the rotors out the required distance for the difference CBR triple clamps are to R1 triple clamps (2mm spacer between wheel & rotor) the R1 wheel tabs can't be used & the standard R1 bolts wont locate into wheel on the dowel part of bolts.

Ohlin's technology isn't specific to Ohlins as they all copy each other in some way because there are only so many ways to build forks that work, so it's hard to say if there is a direct relation ship but I'm sure there is as far as flow rates & what they already new works. You would be suprized how many times even Ohlins gets it wrong & just like any other fork/shock can be improved on by someone with the skill & time to do there own R&D. Everything can be improved to suit an individuals taste so just because it's a Ohlins/Penske/Wilbers/WP/etc doesn't mean there the bees knees, there just a upgrade out of the box for a factory installed cost effective suspension.

My CBR1000RR track bike forks (rebuilt as well) are just as good as the R1 units I have on the VFR but there not standard & have completely different Showa valving installed from stock so you can make anything work well you just have to know what your doing & I'm lucky my friend does as he seems to spend more time testing than making money. Even the latest & greatest Ohlins rear shock which costs a packet can be improved upon as he is testing one at the moment on a 07 R1 which he is also playing with (who gets a brand new $2500AU shock & pulls it apart almost straight away it's madness to me) & if you rode the bike with that shock out of the box to how it rides after he tinkered with it you wouldn't think it was the same shock. He wants to start his own line of valving for sports bikes that is aimed mainly for road use & my R1 forks have a prototype in them but I have no clue what the difference is because thats his science & he spends days calculating & playing with all these little round things that I have trouble even seeing.

What is forgotten about suspension even the good stuff like Ohlins is everything is machined with a tolerance +/- whatever so no 2 parts put together wil be exactly the same & as flow rates through valving are the main thing that keep your tyre firmly planted on the road you can have identical bikes with identical suspension & same rider & he will notice a difference in them both. Motogp at the cutting edge is a perfect example of this with each rider having 2 bikes that they will be setup the exact same but if rider crashes his prirary bike they will always say the 2nd bike felt different.

Edited January 5, 2008 by zRoYz

[The Phantom]

Missed this due to moving house at the time (although I knew you'd gotten it all together), what can I say, another excellent job!

I love the blue on blue combo and the blue front wheel really sets off the hardware. Normally it's lost in the black front wheel.

Good to hear it rides so well too :thumbsup:

Some questions, of course.

I take it you still have the Convertibars on it?

Are 929 bars an option with the SP1 top triple?

With the SP1 top triple (and the forks correspondingly raised), have you got the same front ride height as with the SP1 forks?

[NYMBYSS]

again you have outdone yourself the bike looks splendid !!!!!!!!!!!! your red twin in chicago salutes you :thumbsup:

[zRoYz]

Missed this due to moving house at the time (although I knew you'd gotten it all together), what can I say, another excellent job!

I love the blue on blue combo and the blue front wheel really sets off the hardware. Normally it's lost in the black front wheel.

Good to hear it rides so well too :thumbsup:

Some questions, of course.

I take it you still have the Convertibars on it?

Are 929 bars an option with the SP1 top triple?

With the SP1 top triple (and the forks correspondingly raised), have you got the same front ride height as with the SP1 forks?

Yes I used Convertibars, they did cause a small problem with ride height I wanted as the clamp fouled on fork as they start to tapper out to a larger dia. That was with original 954 top triple, which is reason I changed to the SP1 top triple which allowed forks with Convertibar clamp to slide up to height I required.

I have same ride height I used with SP1 setup with 5mm of fork showing above SP1 top triple, 954 bars I think would be to low & if you used 954 top triple you still would only have about 20mm of fork to mount clipons above top triple so with R1 forks you need to mount clipons bellow top triple & use a SP1 top triple due to problem I ran into with fork tapper (this depends on thickness of clipon clamp of course).

Edited February 5, 2008 by zRoYz

[UFO]

Nice! Another mod to add to the list. Gah.

[SGVridgerunner]

Wow! Nice job. Hearing you talk about the handling of the R1 front end gets me thinking about my bike. Very cool.

Although, to call it a VFR1, you need to get my adapter pipe and run a Yoshimura R1 exhaust. That way, you have both ends covered.

:thumbsup: