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Vf1000r Rebuild


vfrcapn

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It will get a good cleaning and maybe some new body panels if I can find them.


Why? The bodywork on that bike looks pretty darn good in the pictures.

The clear coat is peeling, the tabs on the side panels are gone and the front is cracked around the headlight, plus all the parts have spider web cracking throughout the paint. It's serviceable though.

The motor started right up, after I determined the fuel pump was dead, and settled immediately in to a nice idle. Jamie, do you route the fuel lines any particular way to gravity feed the bike? Do you run an inline fuel filter?

After a couple minutes I noticed a slow oil leak which I traced to this:

The front left motor mount/case is cracked. It looks like someone tried to repair it previously. Has anyone seen this before? I wonder if I can get away with some JBWeld... :fing02:
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Not an easy job to weld, the parts will need to be clean and preheated. Then there is still the fact that it's cast. It's doable, but will not be quick & easy. Might not be cheap either.

I wonder if it can be done in the bike? Or are we talking about a tear down to the bare case? If the header, filter and maybe frame rail are removed I think there's room to weld it, I don't know how clean you can get it.

Yes, to do it right, you would need to pull the motor and tear it down. I wouldn't trust the weld if I couldn't have a bare, clean part in my hands as a welder.

Cast aluminum has millions of tiny(sometimes not so tiny!) air pockets. The second you start an arc on it, the material starts to melt away(it has to for weld penetration), and the air bubbles out, creating new ones at the same time. this leads to a loss of structural integrity in both the new weld, and the area around it. In reality, the area immediately around the new weld will crack before the weld does.

I've seen this stuff in use, and it's pretty damn amazing. I would absolutely try it if it was my bike. The worst that can happen is it cracks out again and you have to pull it apart for TIG. You can get it cheaper on ePay. Just scroll down and select qty. You will still need to use solvent and a metal detailing brush to get the area really clean before brazing. I'd also rough up the surface as much as possible with sandpaper to assure a good bond.

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So, can this be welded? After removing the silicon and other goop there wasn't much holding it there...

:pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:

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IMG_5159Medium.jpg

IMG_5162Medium.jpg

Oooo, gnarly. Did Honda farm out work to Kawasaki during the 80's or what? :pissed:

I know I'm going to take all kinds of heat for this, but I stand by my earlier suggestion. Clean it, mount it, and use the aluminum brazing rod. When I saw the stuff demonstrated at the Seattle MC show, the guy brazed a glob on a piece of cast aluminum can and then pounded on the glob with a hammer to show how strong it was. It didn't separate, crack or do anything but deform a bit from the hammer blows. Incidentally, a broken case from an old Norton or something was on display, repaired with the brazing rod and polished out beautifully.

Why not try it?

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Oooo, gnarly. Did Honda farm out work to Kawasaki during the 80's or what? :pissed:

I know I'm going to take all kinds of heat for this, but I stand by my earlier suggestion. Clean it, mount it, and use the aluminum brazing rod. When I saw the stuff demonstrated at the Seattle MC show, the guy brazed a glob on a piece of cast aluminum can and then pounded on the glob with a hammer to show how strong it was. It didn't separate, crack or do anything but deform a bit from the hammer blows. Incidentally, a broken case from an old Norton or something was on display, repaired with the brazing rod and polished out beautifully.

Why not try it?

Yes, the whole casting in this area seems pretty light considering there are only two forward mounts, the weight of the motor, etc..

I saw the stuff demo'd at a woodworkers show and was pretty impressed. I'm also getting a suggestion from a friend to just JBWeld it back in place. My concern is that if either of those approaches don't work it may not be able to be welded after the metal has been contaminated. I want to give my local mc machinist/welder a shot at it first. If he won't or can't weld it (in the bike) I'm leaning towards trying the brazing. It sounds like you have to apply quite a lot of heat to get it to flow, also not sure about using it at that downward angle - I assume it must flow the same way as sweating a copper pipe..

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That may work or not, I can't say I'm an expert and that know for sure.

Forget the JB Weld. Just forget it.

I have no experience with the brazing rod, but beating it with a hammer and showing that it can fill a crack does not hold any water when you're talking about a stressed member subject to long periods of various frequencies of vibration, heat cycles, and hard knocks in general.

Your best, safest, and longest-lasting method will be to remove the damaged part and fix it outside of the bike.

- With the part out, and as clean as you can get it, use an oxy/ace torch to heat the pieces. Get it sooty with the acetylene, then heat it with both till the soot burns away.

- While it's hot, weld with 5356 filler rod(TIG).(not 4043!)

- If you really want to be safe, stick it in a box of vermiculite right after you weld it, so it cools down very slowly, this keeps it from cracking as it cools.

- If you get a nasty looking weld from all the crud that WILL cook out of the casting, grind the weld down some(not all of it), and repeat the process. Once you get a clean bead on top, build it up a bit.

- Once cooled, use a die grinder and some files, clean up the excess weld. Repaint & reinstall, and ride away happily with peace of mind.

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Got my 51 bars in today and they are much better than the 929's. Also got the indicator cluster mounted in the brake hose holes.

gallery_13847_3747_84625.jpg

indicator gauges

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I talked to my machinist today on welding up the F motor and the recommendation was no way. Maybe, possibly if the cases were split. The issue is it's broken out right at the seal between the top and bottom case, you can't weld all the way to the top or it won't seal, if you don't weld it all the way up it won't seal, plus getting it lined up, etc, etc. Time for new cases if I want to save it.

And the suspension shop told me they couldn't do anything with swapping the lower clevis from the RC shock to the VFR shock, so, I may be looking for Jaime's VFR shock extension also for the R bike.

On the good news side...oh wait, there wasn't any... :comp13:

Sitting bike..

IMG_5276Large.jpg

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First impressions on very short ride are... Steering lock is unacceptable! Almost to the point of dangerous. Unless I can move the radiator down to gain a few degrees of steering, I would say the rc51 swap is a no-no on older VF's. The difference is dramatic. It's one thing to turn a million times in the garage, it's quite another to not be able to avoid objects in the driveway! I'm going to put on the fairings and go for a ride but I'm not sure I'll be swayed. We'll see. As it stands, I wouldn't suggest anyone try this at home. Please correct me Tom.

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First impressions on very short ride are... Steering lock is unacceptable! Almost to the point of dangerous. Unless I can move the radiator down to gain a few degrees of steering, I would say the rc51 swap is a no-no on older VF's. The difference is dramatic. It's one thing to turn a million times in the garage, it's quite another to not be able to avoid objects in the driveway! I'm going to put on the fairings and go for a ride but I'm not sure I'll be swayed. We'll see. As it stands, I wouldn't suggest anyone try this at home. Please correct me Tom.

Kel, did you remove the grill off the front of the radiator? That gains you a few degrees. I'm at the same point now, got the front end and radiator mounted, and evaluating the situation. Moving the radiator down gains a few more degrees but the frame is final limiter, and I'm concerned the fender/wheel may impact the radiator if it's lowered? :rolleyes:

I'm going to try to take a few measurements on the lock to lock angle.

I not only removed the grill but I cut the back off of the rubber mount on the upper rad mount to gain a little. Well I went for a lengthy ride last night. Obviously you won't notice any difference at speed. But turning right at an intersection, you really do. It's unsettling to go to turn like you're used to only to have the steering suddenly stop well short. The new bars will take some getting use to. With the wider upper, they are wider and more upright. My palms are parallel to the ground instead of slightly turned in. Reminds me of the superbike bars on my Cb750F. There's alot more leverage and the reach is shorter so I think I'll like it. The bars themselves are shorter than stock so I can't put on the bar ends until I get some modern reservoirs but even with the stock kR reservoir, it stops like mad!

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As you can see, the stance is very close to stock, even feels a little higher? Tom, can you shoot me a measurement from the ground up to something like the bottom of the radiator? I never cared much for the stock 51 rotor pattern so I went with a pair of 929's PLUS they're 330mm! Huge! Because they are larger, I had to make a caliper bracket to raise the calipers slightly. Love the look now. I trimmed up the bulbous front fender and now just need to paint it white. Got my dual headlight in and you'll notice it uses a cut down '85 headlight surround which I think looks better, gives it more of an intake look than the stock dual trim piece.

gallery_13847_3747_99693.jpg

new front.jpg

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First impressions on very short ride are... Steering lock is unacceptable! Almost to the point of dangerous. Unless I can move the radiator down to gain a few degrees of steering, I would say the rc51 swap is a no-no on older VF's. The difference is dramatic. It's one thing to turn a million times in the garage, it's quite another to not be able to avoid objects in the driveway! I'm going to put on the fairings and go for a ride but I'm not sure I'll be swayed. We'll see. As it stands, I wouldn't suggest anyone try this at home. Please correct me Tom.

Kelly,

You are using the 929 bottom triple?

Is the triple hitting the rad?

The RC51 bottom triple clears the rad due to the dogleg and gives you that much more steering lock. Still less than stock, but better.

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First impressions on very short ride are... Steering lock is unacceptable! Almost to the point of dangerous. Unless I can move the radiator down to gain a few degrees of steering, I would say the rc51 swap is a no-no on older VF's. The difference is dramatic. It's one thing to turn a million times in the garage, it's quite another to not be able to avoid objects in the driveway! I'm going to put on the fairings and go for a ride but I'm not sure I'll be swayed. We'll see. As it stands, I wouldn't suggest anyone try this at home. Please correct me Tom.

Kelly,

You are using the 929 bottom triple?

Is the triple hitting the rad?

The RC51 bottom triple clears the rad due to the dogleg and gives you that much more steering lock. Still less than stock, but better.

Yes, I'm using the 929 bottom but even if I could completely clear the rad, the fork tube is already very close to the frame so I can't gain much.

That`s the only limiting factor I can think of. On mine, the fork leg touches the frame on full lock and after removing the rad grill, the bottom triple clears the rad. Every bit is needed.

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Yes, I'm using the 929 bottom but even if I could completely clear the rad, the fork tube is already very close to the frame so I can't gain much.

That`s the only limiting factor I can think of. On mine, the fork leg touches the frame on full lock and after removing the rad grill, the bottom triple clears the rad. Every bit is needed.

I must say, it is growing on me. Do I miss full range of steering? Yes. Do I think it looks cool as hell? Yes. The thing that stinks now is it looks like I need seals. I haven't done a set of USD's before so...I may farm this one out. I guess now I'll jump on the backend and get my 5.5 on. How did you make out? Happy? What offset did you end up with? Shoot me a measurement from the R factory so I can see how close to stock she's sitting. Maybe bottom of the front fairing under the headlight.

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I must say, it is growing on me. Do I miss full range of steering? Yes. Do I think it looks cool as hell? Yes. The thing that stinks now is it looks like I need seals. I haven't done a set of USD's before so...I may farm this one out. I guess now I'll jump on the backend and get my 5.5 on. How did you make out? Happy? What offset did you end up with? Shoot me a measurement from the R factory so I can see how close to stock she's sitting. Maybe bottom of the front fairing under the headlight.

The steering lock is never going to be the same. It`s the single biggest drawback in my opinion. I don`t notice it anymore since I`ve probably adjusted to the bike. Until someone makes a set of upper and lower trees specifically for this, I`m happy.

You can do the seals, I`ve done a couple sets now, not much different than regular right way up forks.

Back end is complete except for the rear shock I`m waiting on. I used a single 3mm spacer on the left with the chain adjuster spacer turned to the inside for an extra 1.5mm, had a 900RR sprocket carrier milled so the sprocket is now closer to the wheel(26mm from wheelside of carrier to the sprocket face). I used a 5mm offset countershaft sprocket but I have a spacer to bring it to 6mm, that gives close to perfect chain alignment although I may have to accept just the 5mm sprocket since I have a small drip of oil I can`t seem to get rid of with the extra 1mm spacer behind the sprocket. Either that or get a 7mm offset sprocket and carefully grind down the frame weld that the bottom chain run will hit. I`d much rather have the chain chew into the tire than the frame...if it`s going to chew through anything. (Joke, it`s not going to chew into anything!)

I`ll get some measurementas tonight.

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Kelly,

OK, with the bike on the sidestand, right side, from the center of the right side phillips head fairing bolt under the nose just in front of the turnsignal "opening" straight down to the floor is 27". Let me know if you want any more.

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Kelly,

OK, with the bike on the sidestand, right side, from the center of the right side phillips head fairing bolt under the nose just in front of the turnsignal "opening" straight down to the floor is 27". Let me know if you want any more.

Wow, I'm 27 1/4. I'm actually tall? I can actually slide them up a little! Guess the upper did it's job.

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gallery_13847_3747_99693.jpg

I often wonder why people do not remove the pic from quotes, but here is an exception. What a beauty, really like the paintjob & mods. Well done :fing02:

Though it would look even better without the rothmans decal

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I often wonder why people do not remove the pic from quotes, but here is an exception. What a beauty, really like the paintjob & mods. Well done :fing02:

Though it would look even better without the rothmans decal

Yes I agree. It's so out of place. I got rearended by a Harley and the oil door got scraped up so I had to cover it with the only stickers I had till it gets a repaint, which is soon. The paint idea really came about from wanting to cut up the large areas. If you see a kR painted one solid color, the bulkiness of the fairings is clear so I thought some stripes at different angles would break it up. My buddies kR that is all red looks like a completely different beast, short and squat. These lines going front to back really help stretch it out.

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I must say, it is growing on me. Do I miss full range of steering? Yes. Do I think it looks cool as hell? Yes. The thing that stinks now is it looks like I need seals. I haven't done a set of USD's before so...I may farm this one out. I guess now I'll jump on the backend and get my 5.5 on. How did you make out? Happy? What offset did you end up with? Shoot me a measurement from the R factory so I can see how close to stock she's sitting. Maybe bottom of the front fairing under the headlight.

The steering lock is never going to be the same. It`s the single biggest drawback in my opinion. I don`t notice it anymore since I`ve probably adjusted to the bike. Until someone makes a set of upper and lower trees specifically for this, I`m happy.

You can do the seals, I`ve done a couple sets now, not much different than regular right way up forks.

Back end is complete except for the rear shock I`m waiting on. I used a single 3mm spacer on the left with the chain adjuster spacer turned to the inside for an extra 1.5mm, had a 900RR sprocket carrier milled so the sprocket is now closer to the wheel(26mm from wheelside of carrier to the sprocket face). I used a 5mm offset countershaft sprocket but I have a spacer to bring it to 6mm, that gives close to perfect chain alignment although I may have to accept just the 5mm sprocket since I have a small drip of oil I can`t seem to get rid of with the extra 1mm spacer behind the sprocket. Either that or get a 7mm offset sprocket and carefully grind down the frame weld that the bottom chain run will hit. I`d much rather have the chain chew into the tire than the frame...if it`s going to chew through anything. (Joke, it`s not going to chew into anything!)

I`ll get some measurementas tonight.

In my quest to find more steering lock, I found that the stock front can turn more to the left than the right. Don't know why other than maybe it helps load the kickstand? I made some hash marks on the bottom steering nut flange. One at center and then one at each lock as a stock base line. Then again with the 51 front on. It now gives me something to shoot for. I have found some mm's to play with. 1st, I swapped the R rad for an F's. The F's is just over one cooling row narrower. I had to flip the F rad and make some brackets for fans and frame mounting. This gets the rad out of the equation. Now the forks hit the frame at the steering neck bracing. The area of the fork that hits the frame is 54mm but right above that, it quickly tapers to 50. If the fork tube maintains a consistent ID, I should be able to take a few mm's from the 54mm spot there without losing strength. After looking at the steering neck bracing, I know I can carve a few mm's out of there with no concerns. This should get me close. I refuse to ride this thing with the limited lock it has.

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In my quest to find more steering lock, I found that the stock front can turn more to the left than the right. Don't know why other than maybe it helps load the kickstand? I made some hash marks on the bottom steering nut flange. One at center and then one at each lock as a stock base line. Then again with the 51 front on. It now gives me something to shoot for. I have found some mm's to play with. 1st, I swapped the R rad for an F's. The F's is just over one cooling row narrower. I had to flip the F rad and make some brackets for fans and frame mounting. This gets the rad out of the equation. Now the forks hit the frame at the steering neck bracing. The area of the fork that hits the frame is 54mm but right above that, it quickly tapers to 50. If the fork tube maintains a consistent ID, I should be able to take a few mm's from the 54mm spot there without losing strength. After looking at the steering neck bracing, I know I can carve a few mm's out of there with no concerns. This should get me close. I refuse to ride this thing with the limited lock it has.

Good idea on the F radiator, I went to mount an R rad to the F bike and didn't think to flip it and went off to source a F rad which I eventually did.

I took some measurements (rough). I'm getting almost 20 degrees each way with the stock R radiator mounted without the upper rubber mounts. On my VFR with the RC front end I get 24-25 degrees each way. I can check the stock F lock-lock...but this feels to me like it's ok.

I'm not sure you can shave down the RC fork tubes. I've got some spares torn down, I can try to measure the wall thickness. I'd have to go look but I think the wall thickness is consistently tapered. Shaping the frame at those two points may be a much better option. :unsure:

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In my quest to find more steering lock, I found that the stock front can turn more to the left than the right. Don't know why other than maybe it helps load the kickstand? I made some hash marks on the bottom steering nut flange. One at center and then one at each lock as a stock base line. Then again with the 51 front on. It now gives me something to shoot for. I have found some mm's to play with. 1st, I swapped the R rad for an F's. The F's is just over one cooling row narrower. I had to flip the F rad and make some brackets for fans and frame mounting. This gets the rad out of the equation. Now the forks hit the frame at the steering neck bracing. The area of the fork that hits the frame is 54mm but right above that, it quickly tapers to 50. If the fork tube maintains a consistent ID, I should be able to take a few mm's from the 54mm spot there without losing strength. After looking at the steering neck bracing, I know I can carve a few mm's out of there with no concerns. This should get me close. I refuse to ride this thing with the limited lock it has.

Good idea on the F radiator, I went to mount an R rad to the F bike and didn't think to flip it and went off to source a F rad which I eventually did.

I took some measurements (rough). I'm getting almost 20 degrees each way with the stock R radiator mounted without the upper rubber mounts. On my VFR with the RC front end I get 24-25 degrees each way. I can check the stock F lock-lock...but this feels to me like it's ok.

I'm not sure you can shave down the RC fork tubes. I've got some spares torn down, I can try to measure the wall thickness. I'd have to go look but I think the wall thickness is consistently tapered. Shaping the frame at those two points may be a much better option. :unsure:

Yea, check the thickness for me. You don't need to measure, just peek inside and see if it's smooth all the way up, doesn't follow the outside contours. It SEEMS like the inside should be consistent, one smooth tube. Depends on how they are made. If they're turned, then I should have plenty. I don't know how you're measuring but your numbers seem to say you have MORE steering travel with the RC?

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Yea, check the thickness for me. You don't need to measure, just peek inside and see if it's smooth all the way up, doesn't follow the outside contours. It SEEMS like the inside should be consistent, one smooth tube. Depends on how they are made. If they're turned, then I should have plenty. I don't know how you're measuring but your numbers seem to say you have MORE steering travel with the RC?

You're right obviously, same ID all the way. Would be kind of hard to seal it otherwise. I haven't had enough caffeine today. :unsure: Still, I'd hack the frame before touching the forks...probably better to get BLS to machine up some of those custom magnesium triples to give some more offset. :fing02:

I didn't measure the turning angle with the stock front end, I'm not sure what it is. I'm measuring the angle the RC front end will turn left or right from center, it's a rough measurement but 19-20 degrees each way on the R, 24-25 degrees on my VFR. I doubt I have any more than 20 on my CB750, it doesn't do tight u-turns but it's no problem on the road.

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Yea, check the thickness for me. You don't need to measure, just peek inside and see if it's smooth all the way up, doesn't follow the outside contours. It SEEMS like the inside should be consistent, one smooth tube. Depends on how they are made. If they're turned, then I should have plenty. I don't know how you're measuring but your numbers seem to say you have MORE steering travel with the RC?

You're right obviously, same ID all the way. Would be kind of hard to seal it otherwise. I haven't had enough caffeine today. :unsure: Still, I'd hack the frame before touching the forks...probably better to get BLS to machine up some of those custom magnesium triples to give some more offset. :fing02:

I didn't measure the turning angle with the stock front end, I'm not sure what it is. I'm measuring the angle the RC front end will turn left or right from center, it's a rough measurement but 19-20 degrees each way on the R, 24-25 degrees on my VFR. I doubt I have any more than 20 on my CB750, it doesn't do tight u-turns but it's no problem on the road.

Just what I thought. Thanks. I am after every degree I can get. If you don't have 23 years on your R, you probably won't care, but I want it to turn like it has the whole 23 years I've had mine. Silly? Not to me. I went to alot of trouble to get it to sit right with the 51 forks so I'm not about to compromise the slow speed handling now. I know I could "get used to it" but I don't want to. I could get used to my toaster only browning one side but it's just not right. Old dog, new trick sort of thing I guess. At any rate, since I'm tearing into it, I decided to paint the whole thing again. Will put my RC45 tail on it this time. There's been some things naggin me that I can finally get to. Still have to get the 5.5 on the rear but don't really want to spend $100 for a front sprocket yet.

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