Member Contributer toro1 Posted July 12, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 As many of you know, I'm trying to get my bike up and running ASAP. So, to make sure everything would go smoothly prior to final assembly, I decided to test my fuel pump out the other night just for kicks. Now keep in mind, when I first wired in the Walbro pump, I tested it and it functioned perfectly. This time, however, I flip the kill switch to run and nothing happens. I try it again. Nothing. I flip it on and off a few more times and what do you know, the pump works like a charm. I flip it on and off 3 more times to make sure everything is okay, but on the 3rd time, it stops working, and has not come on since. By now I'm thinking that either the pump is bad or a fuse is blown, but closer inspection with the voltmeter lets me discover that the pump isn't receiving any voltage. Nada. I open the Honda manual and, believe it or not, there's actually a checklist of what to do if the pump isn't receiving any voltage: check the main fuse -- it's fine check the other fuses -- they're fine too check the fuel cut relay, the fuel pump relay, and the bank angle sensor -- they all work great check the kill switch -- I see the Power Commander turn on & off everytime I flip the switch, so that's fine as well This leaves only one aspect left to check - and I can't even check it -- the ECM. According to the wiring diagram, the fuel pump relay only activates when sent a signal from the ECM, so right now I'm thinking that my computer took a dump. Also, for some reason, the power commander & knock light no longer light up at all when flipping the kill switch, when just a few minutes before they were working fine. Has anybody ever encountered a problem like this before? Has anybody's ECM ever gone bad? This is so incredibly frustrating to be oh-so-close to starting this bike up, and now having the most important part of the electrical system crap out on me. By the way, I unplugged all the gauges and the problem persists, and yes, the battery voltage is fine. Any help/input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 disconnect the battery - then reconnect and try it again? I'm no whiz - but maybe something needs to reset? wish I could help more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer toro1 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 disconnect the battery - then reconnect and try it again? I'm no whiz - but maybe something needs to reset? wish I could help more. I'll try that Ken, I already did reset the fault codes (quite a few come up when no sensors or injectors are connected). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CrazyInNYC Posted July 12, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 As many of you know, I'm trying to get my bike up and running ASAP. So, to make sure everything would go smoothly prior to final assembly, I decided to test my fuel pump out the other night just for kicks. Now keep in mind, when I first wired in the Walbro pump, I tested it and it functioned perfectly. This time, however, I flip the kill switch to run and nothing happens.I try it again. Nothing. I flip it on and off a few more times and what do you know, the pump works like a charm. I flip it on and off 3 more times to make sure everything is okay, but on the 3rd time, it stops working, and has not come on since. By now I'm thinking that either the pump is bad or a fuse is blown, but closer inspection with the voltmeter lets me discover that the pump isn't receiving any voltage. Nada. I open the Honda manual and, believe it or not, there's actually a checklist of what to do if the pump isn't receiving any voltage: check the main fuse -- it's fine check the other fuses -- they're fine too check the fuel cut relay, the fuel pump relay, and the bank angle sensor -- they all work great check the kill switch -- I see the Power Commander turn on & off everytime I flip the switch, so that's fine as well This leaves only one aspect left to check - and I can't even check it -- the ECM. According to the wiring diagram, the fuel pump relay only activates when sent a signal from the ECM, so right now I'm thinking that my computer took a dump. Also, for some reason, the power commander & knock light no longer light up at all when flipping the kill switch, when just a few minutes before they were working fine. Has anybody ever encountered a problem like this before? Has anybody's ECM ever gone bad? This is so incredibly frustrating to be oh-so-close to starting this bike up, and now having the most important part of the electrical system crap out on me. By the way, I unplugged all the gauges and the problem persists, and yes, the battery voltage is fine. Any help/input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! If your Power Commander took a dump, it will prevent the fuel pump relay from activating as well. I'd try unplugging it real quick... Happened to me, shortly after installing my used PC. Started up fine a few times, then I took it for a ride and it died 1/2 mile down the road and wouldn't light up anymore. :pissed: Unplugged it and she fired right up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer toro1 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 I just reset the computer and unplugged the power commander -- nothing. I'm not even getting voltage to the fuel pump relay anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlecreek Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 i know your kill switch DID work, but now it sounds like it isnt. you need to start from the batter and go through the basic checks of relays to see where power is getting and where it isnt. it might have been an intermittent relay issue that has finally given up the ghost completely. doesn't really sound like ecm to me at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted July 12, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 I vote kill switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Stéphane Posted July 12, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 I'd check the connections. Maybe a loose connector, or a ground not well grounded. Double check everything electrical you've done so far. I'm a bit surprised that the oem pump would not supply you with enough gas, maybe try it if you're problem persists. SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jstanwood Posted July 12, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 I'd check the connections. Maybe a loose connector, or a ground not well grounded. Double check everything electrical you've done so far. I'm a bit surprised that the oem pump would not supply you with enough gas, maybe try it if you're problem persists.SG I would try the OEM pump, too. Does the Walbro draw more current? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 SG Does the Walbro draw more current? Needs heavier wires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer toro1 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 The pump is fine -- the problem is that I'm not getting any voltage to the pump. As per the manual, I checked the voltage across the pump connector pins which, for the first few seconds after you flip the kill switch, should read 12V. I see nothing. Zero. The furthest I could trace it to is the fuel pump relay. I'd also like to point out that I have checked the operation of said relay and it works fine; in fact, I even tried replacing it with another relay and still got nothing. From looking at the wiring diagram, the ECM sends a signal directly to the relay to energize the relay coil, which is why I'm concerned that internally, something might be wrong with that black box. I can't check if it's passing proper voltage since I don't have a fancy Honda-tech pin-box jumper-connector-thingie. I'm stumped and completely frustrated. Anybody have an extra ECM laying around?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gswanson Posted July 12, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 If you think the signal voltage to the relay is not being sent by the ECM, can you isolate (disconnect) the signal wire from the ECM to the pump relay and supply an alternate source of energizing power to the relay? That might shed more light on whether the ECM is really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlecreek Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 good idea for sure gswanson. that does not answer the question of why his pciii is no longer getting power though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer toro1 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 If you think the signal voltage to the relay is not being sent by the ECM, can you isolate (disconnect) the signal wire from the ECM to the pump relay and supply an alternate source of energizing power to the relay? That might shed more light on whether the ECM is really bad. I'll have to try that when I get home today. I also want to check my kill switch out and make sure I didn't blow any fuses since I first started testing, because like I said, initially the power commander would power up every time I flipped the switch, and now it does nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Elec-"tricks" are my least favorite aspect of bike work! :pissed: Good luck getting her buttoned up(and running soon!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer AZrider Posted July 12, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 I know someone who installed an alarm onto a cbr600f4i by tapping off of the (pink?) power lead to the ecm. The bike wouldn't start and several people were stumped for weeks, checking every relay and safety switch, removing the alarm system and even swapping out the ecm with a known good - all to no avail. It turned out that the cbr's ecm requires a specific resistance on that circuit and the bike wouldn't fire up, even after the alarm power tap was removed, because the resistance was "wrong". A shop had to replace that part of the wiring harness entirely. I can't remember if the symptoms were the same (no voltage to fuel pump) and I don't know if the VFR's are the same or if you've tapped into the ecm voltage, but I figured I toss it out there as something to consider. good luck, -Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer toro1 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 I know someone who installed an alarm onto a cbr600f4i by tapping off of the (pink?) power lead to the ecm. The bike wouldn't start and several people were stumped for weeks, checking every relay and safety switch, removing the alarm system and even swapping out the ecm with a known good - all to no avail. It turned out that the cbr's ecm requires a specific resistance on that circuit and the bike wouldn't fire up, even after the alarm power tap was removed, because the resistance was "wrong". A shop had to replace that part of the wiring harness entirely.I can't remember if the symptoms were the same (no voltage to fuel pump) and I don't know if the VFR's are the same or if you've tapped into the ecm voltage, but I figured I toss it out there as something to consider. good luck, -Steve Very, very interesting Steve. When I got the bike, it had a Gorilla alarm on it -- looks like I have to double check where they tapped into the power. It sure sounds like a similar situation in certain regards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Still sounds like the Kill switch or possibly the Tip Over relay, I very much doubt the ECM is the problem unless the case is cracked or broken. Did this bike ever run or did you buy it wrecked, I don't remember ? :pissed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer toro1 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 Still sounds like the Kill switch or possibly the Tip Over relay, I very much doubt the ECM is the problem unless the case is cracked or broken. Did this bike ever run or did you buy it wrecked, I don't remember ? :pissed: Okay, I double checked the kill switch, and it's perfectly fine, and as far as I can tell, the bank angle sensor is good too. This bike used to run like a champ, which makes this problem all the more mysterious. This just in: I think I found out why the kill switch seemed like it wasn't working -- I blew a 20A fuse. I'll run out to the store and pick some up, and report the findings in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer toro1 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 UPDATE: After a vast amount of worrying, time lost, fuses blown, voltages checked, components swapped, switches taken apart, and wiring diagrams read, the problem folks was that the throttle body wiring harness was not plugged in. That's it. What confuses me now is why the pump turned over before when I had it unhooked. Who knows, but I guess this goes to show just how interconnected this bike really is. The moral of this story is before you get all tied up in a what you think is a terrible electrical problem, be sure to have the stupid plugs plugged in. :pissed: Okay, back to finishing this bike up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dude Posted July 12, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2007 UPDATE: After a vast amount of worrying, time lost, fuses blown, voltages checked, components swapped, switches taken apart, and wiring diagrams read, the problem folks was that the throttle body wiring harness was not plugged in. That's it. What confuses me now is why the pump turned over before when I had it unhooked. Who knows, but I guess this goes to show just how interconnected this bike really is.The moral of this story is before you get all tied up in a what you think is a terrible electrical problem, be sure to have the stupid plugs plugged in. :pissed: Okay, back to finishing this bike up! The old KISS analogy applies once again. Glad it was a simple fix Toro :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 UPDATE: After a vast amount of worrying, time lost, fuses blown, voltages checked, components swapped, switches taken apart, and wiring diagrams read, the problem folks was that the throttle body wiring harness was not plugged in. That's it. What confuses me now is why the pump turned over before when I had it unhooked. Who knows, but I guess this goes to show just how interconnected this bike really is.The moral of this story is before you get all tied up in a what you think is a terrible electrical problem, be sure to have the stupid plugs plugged in. :pissed: Okay, back to finishing this bike up! Sheesh! and here I thought the world was ending... :rolleyes: :goofy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Now at least we get to see/hear the beastie run? :pissed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer toro1 Posted July 13, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2007 Now at least we get to see/hear the beastie run? :pissed: Soon my man, very very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Stéphane Posted July 13, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2007 UPDATE: After a vast amount of worrying, time lost, fuses blown, voltages checked, components swapped, switches taken apart, and wiring diagrams read, the problem folks was that the throttle body wiring harness was not plugged in. That's it. What confuses me now is why the pump turned over before when I had it unhooked. Who knows, but I guess this goes to show just how interconnected this bike really is.The moral of this story is before you get all tied up in a what you think is a terrible electrical problem, be sure to have the stupid plugs plugged in. :pissed: Okay, back to finishing this bike up! I knew it was something simple. It had to be. That's why I said to check all the connectors. I have done the same thing too, I think everything is back on properly, then this is that little connector that was hiding underneath everything and missed it a few times. Electrical can very frustrating and misleading. Glad you can get back to the project, I can't wait to see/hear that thing. SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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