Jump to content
KanadianKen

6th Gen - Blue Connector Ground Fix - How To.

Recommended Posts

Hi Switchblade. I studied the wire diagram and stripped the harnass open. I found that the wire marked (E) coming out of the righthand fusebox (brouwn/Blue) somehow grounds somewhere even if everything is plugged out any advise?

Follow the wire and look for burnt wires touching .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks for this Knight, not many bike mechanics are based in Reunion island, and mine was recommended by a friend who has the red VFR (see my profile picture). He leads a team of mechanics from a Kawasaki, Yamaha dealership. The Honda dealer here has a (very) bad reputation... You are certainly right, he most probably does not have a short detector. I will check with him though. However, looking at this video on youtube (car wiring harness), it looks like you have to take out the wiring harness to find where the problem is with such tool, which is exactly what he told me. Is that right ? I'm an OK rider but a very very bad mechanic, my skills are very poor. What he told me was he did inspect the wires he could see, especially the fan ones... And did not see anything wrong... From what I understood, the connector was not melted, it's just the fuse that "went off". I will clarify the information I got from him and will give him your advice / ideas to and will feedback the forum

French 6th Gens VFRs did not get the recall. Is that because there is no such thing as class actions as you have in the US ? R/R problems are known by french 6th Gen VFR riders... Are the models "different" ? Who the fu.. knows. KanadianKen fix will be tried in 2 days... Will let you know.

I love my VFR, it's just an unreal bike. But next time she breaks down, I'm gone. I Had a 2002 CBR 600F before, only issue was a dead speedometer, that was it. It had more kms thought (50 000 kms) and had been really well maintained but the 2 previous owners.

That he looked but did not find anything.


Yes, because he does not own nor know how to use a SHORT DETECTOR which would tell HIM where the problem lies. This guy will never find anything. The old "wholesale swap" is used by such people.

The good news is you seem to have a link of the fan fuse and the fan. That's the same circuit. It is not like he has to check the entire bike yet. If you can inspect the fan wiring, perhaps you may find a damaged section, obvious bare wire or burnt area? An area near a previous repair which may have gotten nicked in the process? Hopefully he didn't just reconnect a melted connector to the fan, did he?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks for this Knight, not many bike mechanics are based in Reunion island, and mine was recommended by a friend who has the red VFR (see my profile picture). He leads a team of mechanics from a Kawasaki, Yamaha dealership. The Honda dealer here has a (very) bad reputation... You are certainly right, he most probably does not have a short detector. I will check with him though. However, looking at this video on youtube (car wiring harness), it looks like you have to take out the wiring harness to find where the problem is with such tool, which is exactly what he told me. Is that right ? I'm an OK rider but a very very bad mechanic, my skills are very poor. What he told me was he did inspect the wires he could see, especially the fan ones... And did not see anything wrong... From what I understood, the connector was not melted, it's just the fuse that "went off". I will clarify the information I got from him and will give him your advice / ideas to and will feedback the forum

French 6th Gens VFRs did not get the recall. Is that because there is no such thing as class actions as you have in the US ? R/R problems are known by french 6th Gen VFR riders... Are the models "different" ? Who the fu.. knows. KanadianKen fix will be tried in 2 days... Will let you know.

I love my VFR, it's just an unreal bike. But next time she breaks down, I'm gone. I Had a 2002 CBR 600F before, only issue was a dead speedometer, that was it. It had more kms thought (50 000 kms) and had been really well maintained but the 2 previous owners.

Others have to chime in with specific help. Do you have the factory service manual? It is available in the download section. Any members here near you?

Note that a fuse blowing always means a massive current flowed through the circuit. They never pop randomly but there is always a reason.

You have hit on something key and I think this is why used VFRs are reasonably priced despite being a superstars: It is an extraordinarily labor intensive bike. A lot of these VFR owners work on their own bikes. I rely on mechanics. I fix computer systems all day long, so working on my bike would probably kill me.

Do not put yourself down. You don't have to be a mechanic. The motorcycle fills different roles for different people. Some love tinkering but some, like me just want to turn the key and ride. I enjoy reading the Keith Code books, magazines, studying riding, then applying the lessons on the street. Someone else can fix it.

You should understand that given your bike's age, several electrical components will need attention. Someone Honda certified or who knows VFRs should proactively clean and inspect all of the switches, wiring, and connections. When the electrical is maintained, the bike will go many miles. As you can see from your CBR, good maintenance is extremely valuable. It is just that 7-10 years of age have corroded a lot of the switches and connectors, so they run hotter, and will cause problems if not inspected, and cleaned or repaired. While Honda takes a lot of criticism, I think problems are pretty universal and due to poor maintenance.

The other option is trading up to a newer bike. Also, inline 4's, and certain naked models can be much easier to maintain. But nothing truly compares to the VFR for overall fun, comfort, and performance. I am rooting for you to find a solution.

Edited by Knight
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again Knight. I'll give a few more info, that may be useful to others too.

After having my fan replaced, one morning, rides 15' to meet up with my buddy for a day ride... Turns ignition off, says hello, ... 5' later tries to start it, for ½ sec. or less all seems good, then she dies, with - if I remember well - a little noise. Then, nothing, she's dead. I turn the key but nothing is happening. As if there was 0 V, no battery at all in my VFR... 15' later II try another time, and miracle, she restarts, as if nothing happened.. This problem never reappeared since...

A bit of history, my silver VFR had at least 3 different owners. One of them had had a computer fan installed on the lower side (left) of the dashboard. This, I believe, to cool off the R/R. The girl I bought it from (who brought the bike back from France to Reunion island) told me she took it off because she thought it was useless.

One previous owner lived in the Alps, where winters are long and snow can be heavy... This may explain the low mileage, not necessarily a good thing a mechanic told me once (that is, better more mileage & better maintenance than the opposite).I don't have the bike history, nor the printed user manual, nor the tools (yet).

What you say is really useful (and clear). Also, we are alike, I take great joy in improving my riding skills, trying to ride better, faster, safer. And what I enjoy most : getting more pleasure, more emotions.

After my CBR 600 F, changed to a 2010 BMW R1200R. Once I tried my buddy's red VFR (with laser exhausts...), got hooked. My 1200 R seemed like flat (!). Felt less fun, less pleasure, having less emotions. Not 20% less, 60 % less... 1st time I sat on his VFR, I thought there was a fighter jet engine under me... And in the revs', my... Well, I felt like I was 25 again... Could not take the smile off my face. It's like, a bit, a nice cup of (smooooooth) champagne, compared to a glass of apple juice... Even if (before repairs...) I could have bought 2 VFRs and still have some change left in my pocket after selling the BM...

VFR is fun on roads like this one :cool:

Salazie

Life is strange. Did you bring me luck ? I met somebody through my work, a VFR 5th Gen owner, living in the same city. 1. He had the same message as yours : don't sell your bike, you'd make a mistake. 2. He was skilled and happy to help, and told me he'd do just that :

Someone (...) who knows VFRs should proactively clean and inspect all of the switches, wiring, and connections.

Will keep updates of progress towards a healthy bike (not the case now..)

This is a summary of possible solutions I found on the forum related to electrical problems (not necessarily mines) on VFR’s 6th Gen :

  • First verify the battery is good

  • Check all connectors and ground. Make sure the grounds are touching metal

  • Check the lower connector on the right side (post #74 on p.8 of « Vtec electrical problems info post »). if needed, rewire

  • Check if the harness does not rub through the protective cover (insulation) and short out against the bike

  • Clean everything with contact cleaner, and use dielectric grease. For the ground connections - especially those in the engine compartment where the ground leads are fastened to aluminum surfaces like the intake manifold, use one of the conductive greases like OxGuard (aim : sealing the terminals against oxidation which creates a high resistance barrier and moisture and dirt which can result in shorts and ground paths)

  • Check wires are not hot

  • Check your stator outputs on all three phases + check resistance as well as see if any of the 3 are "communicating" that is, short circuiting between them... the specs are in the workshop manual

  • Check if stator-R/R connector is OK. If yes, cut out the connector from the equation and hardwire stator to R/R

  • Replace stator & R/R

  • Install a new 30 amp fuse connection

  • Connector bypass with thicker wire (RE : Kanadian Ken fix) + likely improvement (see post #76 on p.8 of « Vtec electrical problems info post »)

  • Monitor Wire fix (also Kanadian Ken, name of the topic on the forum : « 6th Gen Monitor Wire Fix »)

  • 30amp Fuse Wires fix (1st page of « Vtec electrical problems info post » on the forum), to fix a wire going to the starter that is carrying too much current for its size

  • Do a mod/upgrade to fix any under or overcharging problems, and improve the Regulator/Rectifier (R/R) to battery charging wires and grounds

  • Rip the bike apart to rewire everything, so that your R/R is getting an accurate read on the voltage hitting your system so it doesn't overcharge and blow electronics

  • In the same vein, something similar (?), install « VFRness » with Accessory Fuse box

  • Also, set idle when warm at 1400-1500. (post 95)
Edited by AlainReunion
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, set idle when warm at 1400-1500. (post 95)

Great post! It is cool to hear that you enjoyed the VFR so much more than the BMW.

I found post #95 regarding idle, and I found some info that the bike tachometer might read too low. If you can borrow a tachometer or a Power Commander you can check the bike tachometer's accuracy.

You will want to tune the starter valves which involves setting the idle. This procedure sets the idle vacuum for 3 of the 4 cylinders. It requires a 4-column manometer or 4 separate gauges. This procedure assures the smoothest idle and throttle response.

Also, check the cold idle RPM and temperature against the manual to make sure the wax idle unit is warming the bike up properly.

Great news on finding a VFR friend. I don't know, I had a strong feeling there was someone right around you. Weird huh? :cool: I wonder if your new friend is on this forum? If not maybe he'll join!

I love paper manuals myself, so I picked up a used factory service manual on ebay and a Honda Common Service manual at HelmInc. The Common Service manual is general talk about Honda systems. I think it is very cool, but it is not bike specific.

Edited by Knight
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi found the culprit at last. The new stator was bad so i had my old one rewound and it works 100% ever with the old R/R. The new stator didn't give enough amps thru to charge when the lights was on

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi found the culprit at last. The new stator was bad so i had my old one rewound and it works 100% ever with the old R/R. The new stator didn't give enough amps thru to charge when the lights was on

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Wow that's crazy that a new VFR stator was bad!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jip and no return on elecrical parts is SA

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to feedback the forum. Since KanadianKen fix done more than 1 month ago, I rode more than 1300 km (800 + miles) and did not have one problem. I have yet to clean and inspect all of the switches, wiring, and connections (it is planned). But it seems, so far so good. Will let you guys know of any further issue linked to that should they arise. Thanks to all of you :happy:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi found the culprit at last. The new stator was bad so i had my old one rewound and it works 100% ever with the old R/R. The new stator didn't give enough amps thru to charge when the lights was on

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Sweet ah I guess at least now you can plan on a ride .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also did the bridge across the blue plug for the green wire , then decided to check voltage drops and all electrical issues ... O boy , was I in for a surprise....

 

 

My headlight voltage measured ON THE CONNECTOR was 9.5 Volts with all 4 headlight on.

The fuelpump fuse basically melted and the plug on that line  that goes to the battery also gets very hot and the plug that goes in vertically just behind the battery also has one connection that was getting so hot it melted the side of the plug.

I had a voltage drop of 0.8 volts to headlights just on earth side. I have now run 4 DECENT 20 Amp plus  wires from battery directly to EACH headlight earthside and also to the frame in front .

Also 2 DECENT 20 amp plus wires to the low beam and high beam into bottom of connector for those relays. Now headlight voltage is back to 13.4 Volts with battery at 13.5Volts , DECENT lights eventually.

 

REMEMBER to remove the headlight fuse from fusebox otherwise bike ignition stays on. cos it seems that all the positive wires runs via ignition . I am very sure it could have been done much different .

 

 

will do some more repairs on those weak fuse holders.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well... My bike "died" tonight. Just after refuelling, I started it. It worked for 3 seconds. Then turned off. Even the time shut down on the LCD, as if the bike had no battery was connected. Just like last time, except it stayed like that... I connected an external battery to my battery to start it. Nada. Nothing... So, I'll take it the garage and will let you know the verdict. Most probably he'll tell me I have a problem with the harness... Had I clean and inspect all of the switches, wiring, and connections... this would probably not have happened... :blush: Knight was certainly right...

On 8 mars 2016 at 9:53 PM, Knight said:

7-10 years of age have corroded a lot of the switches and connectors, so they run hotter, and will cause problems if not inspected, and cleaned or repaired

My mechanic is good. He'll find the problem. However, if it's the harness, he won't fix it... So I'll have to ask my buddy for help. But he told my finding the problem involves ripping the bike apart. So a few days work... Hum...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry to hear about this. Note that many of us have been stranded, and of course are rooting for you.


How many miles have you put on since the last repair?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Possibly cheaper and easier to just replace the entire harnesses and have peace of mind??

I swapped the front one out for a new one that I improved before installing it for ease or comfort of working on it on a bench instead of on the bike.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Knight, thanks to you and to Auspangglish. Mileage is 27 960. When my engine fan died (& shortly after the fuse linked to the new fan burnt), my bike was around 18 600 + miles. So, nearly 10 000 miles between. Will update when more info.:unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bike is up & running. Thanks guys. :happy: Short circuit was located under (& linked to) the « neiman » as we say in France, that is, the part in which you put the key in. Mechanic told me a connection was corroded. Took them 3 ½ hours of work to inspect, find & repair. (which translated into a 220 USD invoice...). Quite long I thought. He answered they had to take off the tank, etc. , and also try the bike & recheck during the work, hence the time. 

 

The thing is, they did not check every connection, switch and wiring, everywhere (this would take them much longer time wise ; 2 or 3 times as long ? I don't know).

 

What I'm thinking is that, as one of my connection was corroded, why another one, somewhere (where they did not look), would not be corroded (or starting to be…) ?  :unsure:

 

So, I asked him how long it could take them to change the entire harness ; he answered 7 / 8 hours. I would like to ask the forum for advice. Do you guys think I should get a new harness and invest the money to have it replaced ? Other solution, I can stay like that & hope all is going to remain fine. Until, maybe, another problem (like this I guess) appears...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do it all myself so it's just the cost of the parts... and my time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Disheartened... Got stranded, one more time, today. Nearly the same story as last time, just that it died just before engine ignition. Dead. Nothing. So, getting gasoline and a match is an option... :mad: Or,(e I can give it to somebody (better). Or maybe (even better, maybe) change the whole harness. Hum...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the VFR's weak point. If it is economically viable for you I would whack an entire new wiring harness in and enjoy the bike. Paying by the hour for mechanics to hunt for a needle in a haystack will surely cost you more, even if they are good with a multi-meter, which many aren't.

Of course this is just my modest, humble and amateur opinion. Not a guarantee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for your help. This is what I'm going to do : get a VFRness and have it installed (+ the Starter Relay Repair Kit, as my cables near the battery look like they heated up a little bit). I'll also ask my mechanic also to put some Ox Guard on all connexions etc. Any advice to help me have a bike that will not broke down again would be welcome ! Should I ask him to check or to check something else ? He told my my R/R was fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, this is how my story with Honda will end. I will not burn the bike. Just will get rid of it, the quicker the better.

Bike looks amazing. Feels amazing… But does not work. It’s a jewel outside, a diamond when you’re on it (when it works). But inside, it’s full of shit. 

 

After months of consulting and research, many thanks to Auspanglish, to Knight, to friends, to my mechanics, to the forum, to the Internet & to Honda dealers here and elsewhere… this is what I concluded :
 
- Wire harness is fucked up ; too complicated / impossible / too time consuming to fix. Bike works now, but is just waiting to fail. Not if. When.
 
- Solution 1.: change the wiring harness with a new one. 
But, Honda does not make it anymore. Of course, this is understandable, as this part did not have any recall, ever. It was flawless, perfect… (reality : some countries like the US and Canada got the recall for a harness problem. Others, like France, no). Being ironic again, it must be because the harness in bikes sold in France (and in other smaller countries) was perfect !
 
- Solution 2. : change the wiring harness with a second-hand one
Would be easy. Just that it looks nearly impossible to find, anywhere… (False, found one on Ebay, "2002-2009", specific year not specified, goes at 358 USD with shipping, a detail), And oh, version differs according to countries it seems... Why make things simple when you can make it otherwise. And of course, it’s a quick fix, changing a harness, just ½ hour work. Quick easy and cheap.
 
What I could end up with  : a bike with a « new » harness that (may) work. Until… the RR fucks up… the strator fucks up…
 
And oh, my bike makes a shit noise at idle ; been told it’s normal (and complicated to fix)
 
Bye Honda. I’m gone. Forever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences Alain. If you were still looking for a new wiring harness here is one for about US175 that is new.

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/electrics/auction-1166275868.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/09/2016 at 2:57 AM, AlainReunion said:

So, this is how my story with Honda will end. I will not burn the bike. Just will get rid of it, the quicker the better.

Bike looks amazing. Feels amazing… But does not work. It’s a jewel outside, a diamond when you’re on it (when it works). But inside, it’s full of shit. 

 

After months of consulting and research, many thanks to Auspanglish, to Knight, to friends, to my mechanics, to the forum, to the Internet & to Honda dealers here and elsewhere… this is what I concluded :
 
- Wire harness is fucked up ; too complicated / impossible / too time consuming to fix. Bike works now, but is just waiting to fail. Not if. When.
 
- Solution 1.: change the wiring harness with a new one. 
But, Honda does not make it anymore. Of course, this is understandable, as this part did not have any recall, ever. It was flawless, perfect… (reality : some countries like the US and Canada got the recall for a harness problem. Others, like France, no). Being ironic again, it must be because the harness in bikes sold in France (and in other smaller countries) was perfect !
 
- Solution 2. : change the wiring harness with a second-hand one
Would be easy. Just that it looks nearly impossible to find, anywhere… (False, found one on Ebay, "2002-2009", specific year not specified, goes at 358 USD with shipping, a detail), And oh, version differs according to countries it seems... Why make things simple when you can make it otherwise. And of course, it’s a quick fix, changing a harness, just ½ hour work. Quick easy and cheap.
 
What I could end up with  : a bike with a « new » harness that (may) work. Until… the RR fucks up… the strator fucks up…
 
And oh, my bike makes a shit noise at idle ; been told it’s normal (and complicated to fix)
 
Bye Honda. I’m gone. Forever

Hello I'm having similar issues but you can get the wiring much cheaper I bought one for 39£ in Ebay. I will use it to make the upgrades outside the bike like ground blue connection fix RR reading cable etc and keep my original wiring for spares. A VFRness will also be mounted. Here in Portugal Honda does not recognize recall issues for wiring only for the dual cbs issue. I guess the changed the wiring at the border right?!... Don't give up on this bike,  I had several Alfa Romeo trust me those had electrical mysteries. VFR the issues are known and we can solve them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The noise at idle: Search this site and youtube for audio of a bad vfr800 cam chain tensioner. Does the sound match what you are hearing? Or record your bike and post a Youtube video here for others to examine.

 

A 2002 needs cam chain tensioners periodically, right around your mileage of 28,000 miles. If that is the problem, it is standard maintenance and it is not the end of the world. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.