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Darth Bling

Gsxr Mirrors On 6th Gen

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Amen! Thanks for staying on it Greg.

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Greg -- not sure if this will be helpful or not, but I have a set of the original production run of the GSXR mirror adapter mounts installed on my '02. One of the problems that I've had with them over the years was the approach of using a flat head phillips bolt for attaching the mirror to the new mount. The problem with a flat head bolt is that it puts outward (not downward) pressure on the cast aluminum GSXR mirror stalk. A bit of over-tightening and . . . . .snap!! The mirror stalk will split or break in a couple places at the mounting hole, rendering it useless (which has happened to me). I was also not a fan of the fact that the aluminum adapter mounts did not include detents in the recess where the GSXR mirror stalk actually mates up with the mount. There is essentially nothing keeping the mirror stalk from rotating on the base with the exception of the friction created between the stalk and the mount by the flat head bolt. . . . .and I already pointed out the problem with that design above. When you try to tighten the bolt to ensure no rotation, the hole in the mirror stalk cracks. So, in short, you might consider utilizing a different type of bolt that won't put outward pressure on the cast aluminum stalk, and ideally, adding detents in the new adapter mount to mate up with the mirror stalk. Just my $.02. I can take some photos tonight if that would be helpful. . . .not trying to be a downer AT ALL (I love the GSXR mirrors on my bike) but I think that these minor changes would make a significant difference.

-Nate

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Sure, I'd love to see some photos.

When I got the CAD drawings and info from Darth, he gave me suggestions on just about everything, which was helpful. When I got them, he spec'd the bolt as a phillips countersunk, 3/8” coarse, 16 TPI screw. So maybe he changed it after your production run? Also, the design I have has circular detents for the mirrors (shown.) Did your design have them?

PS these ABS samples don't show the threads cut into the mirror mount hole in the middle of the detent. Hard to do that in ABS.

post-8118-0-96043200-1442426316.jpg

post-8118-0-73920000-1442426329.jpg

Edited by wgregt

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I'll have to be more specific. . . .I'll try to get some photos tonight. Yes, mine were just like that, and yes, mine had the phillips countersunk screw / bolt. That was the problem. Pictures will speak 1,000 words. . . .

The detents I'm recommending would be at third points in the bottom of the circular recess already milled into the mount. The stock GSXR mirror stalks have protrusions that keep them in a relative position. . . .like I said, more when I have some pictures.

-Nate

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Your comment of "flat head phillips bolt" has thrown me off as well. I thought you said/meant "flat head bolt", which I initially thought meant you had an early version, 'cause the plan now calls for a phillips head bolt. So you'll have to explain that one again.

I know the 3 small male bumps on the bottom of the GSXR mirror arm you are talking about. You're suggesting 3 small female indentions in the new base I'm making? Those things are really small on the GSXR arm...not sure they'd make any difference on the base I'm making.


You can see the small black marks on the first foto of the ABS mounts on the round detent in one of the fotos...this is where the 3 male bumps touch/rub on the mount.

I actually like the fact that the GSXR mirrors will fold in/swivel on the base to fold them in (while lane splitting out here in CA.) I think if we had 3 small corresponding female indentions to match up it would prevent the ability to fold them in.


As far as the bolt itself, I'm not sure the head on the bolt makes any difference on the too-much-tightening thing. The flat head was chosen so it can be easily drilled for the wire to pass thru, and it sits flat in the mirror housing when tight, allowing you to install the black Suzuki OEM cover cap. And you say the pressure is outward instead of downward? Huh? It's all in line with the bolt. You'll have to fill me in on that too.


Another thing I just thought about: What if someone wanted signal mirrors that were not GSXR mirrors?

Edited by wgregt

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Greg -- not sure if this will be helpful or not, but I have a set of the original production run of the GSXR mirror adapter mounts installed on my '02. One of the problems that I've had with them over the years was the approach of using a flat head phillips bolt for attaching the mirror to the new mount. The problem with a flat head bolt is that it puts outward (not downward) pressure on the cast aluminum GSXR mirror stalk. A bit of over-tightening and . . . . .snap!! The mirror stalk will split or break in a couple places at the mounting hole, rendering it useless (which has happened to me). I was also not a fan of the fact that the aluminum adapter mounts did not include detents in the recess where the GSXR mirror stalk actually mates up with the mount. There is essentially nothing keeping the mirror stalk from rotating on the base with the exception of the friction created between the stalk and the mount by the flat head bolt. . . . .and I already pointed out the problem with that design above. When you try to tighten the bolt to ensure no rotation, the hole in the mirror stalk cracks. So, in short, you might consider utilizing a different type of bolt that won't put outward pressure on the cast aluminum stalk, and ideally, adding detents in the new adapter mount to mate up with the mirror stalk. Just my $.02. I can take some photos tonight if that would be helpful. . . .not trying to be a downer AT ALL (I love the GSXR mirrors on my bike) but I think that these minor changes would make a significant difference.

-Nate

Good points Nate. Now that I have my bike back together and the GSXR mirrors installed, I have noticed the same issue. The mirrors actually fall forward! One would think that they would move back with wind/ acceleration, but they flop forward. I have been tightening them down as much as I can but I am scared of the mount (which is a Ninja 6R of some year) snapping. Today I installed a pressure washer hoping that this would add the correct amount of friction.

If the 8th Gen VFR or even CBR mirrors can be used instead, that might be worth looking at. So far I can say that here are the pro's/ cons of the Gixxer mirrors:

Pros:

Better rear view/ wider and sit higher

Turn signal integration is nice- was able to "de dumbo" the 5th gen that they are on

Clear

Cons:

Still somewhat dated looking even after installing LED bulbs vs. the stock bulbs

not that much adjustability

Dont fold in easily like the standard VFR mirrors

difficult to tighten down- might snap the mount

The mirrors proved to be one of the more difficult mods on my project bike. I was hoping that these mounts will work better than the Ninja mounts that I am currently using and solve most of the "cons" above!

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I'm not versed on the Ninja 6R mounts. Would love to see some fotos close up. How are they different/similar to the GSXR mounts? Maybe shoot a little Youtube video of them on the bike, showing what you mean about flopping forward?

Edited by wgregt

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I will try to get some video of them. The mods have already been done so I am not sure what the differences are from stock. I don't think I ever had the Gixxer mirror mounts anyways just the mirrors themselves.

I believe that we discussed this before. One other downside that I forgot to mention, and why I think ultimately some did not like the Ninja mounts, was that the wire for the signal had to be routed through the fairing (tiny hole drilled). Its really not that noticeable, and doesn't bother me. But I think it would some, not quite as sano as the darth bling mounts.

So far the pressure washer seems to be working...crossing fingers... more "quality Indiana road" riding needed to know for sure :goofy:

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Wow, there are two threads on this forum that seem to never want to come to completion, this one and the 2Bros Headers thread...The anticipation is killing me and I'm not even planning on doing either mod! :biggrin:

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This your first time here?

That's how we do things...we string them out forever, often thru no fault of our own. Gives Kanadiens something to talk about in the off-season from July-May.


I will try to get some video of them. The mods have already been done so I am not sure what the differences are from stock. I don't think I ever had the Gixxer mirror mounts anyways just the mirrors themselves.

I believe that we discussed this before. One other downside that I forgot to mention, and why I think ultimately some did not like the Ninja mounts, was that the wire for the signal had to be routed through the fairing (tiny hole drilled). Its really not that noticeable, and doesn't bother me. But I think it would some, not quite as sano as the darth bling mounts.

So far the pressure washer seems to be working...crossing fingers... more "quality Indiana road" riding needed to know for sure :goofy:

Yep. I remember the bit about the shrink wrap on the outside of the stalk. But I don't think I ever saw good fotos of the mount itself, or the stalk itself. The ones I'm (still) working on will also need a small 1/8" hole drilled, but it will be UNDER the mount, between the mounting bolts, and unseen. So you can go back to stock when you sell the bastard...


I will say that since this thread started I've talked to a few members here who have the mounts from Darth originally, have the GSXR mirrors, and haven't mentioned anything about cracking or the mirrors flopping forward, for what that's worth.

Edited by wgregt

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Taking the hybrid 5.5 back to stock stopped being an option about the time the old subframe came off and I put the 6th gen on!

I will try to get some good pics of the mirrors and mounts so you can see what I did to mount them.

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Taking the hybrid 5.5 back to stock stopped being an option about the time the old subframe came off and I put the 6th gen on!

I will try to get some good pics of the mirrors and mounts so you can see what I did to mount them.

Update ..

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Ok guys. . . here are the photos that should help.

First image: snapped off stock GSXR mirror stalk at the base. . . .note the flat head Phillips bolt. If you google 'flat head phillips' you will see that this type of bolt or screw actually has a flared bottom. It's not flat on the bottom. . . .it's flat on the top!!!! You have to know your bolts. . . .you should be able to see how tightening the bolt further, essentially results in you forcing a funnel shape into a cylindrical hole. . . .the tighter you make it, the more outward pressure on the cast metal until. . . .SNAP. And then you are left with this:

GSXR Mirror mount 1

Next image: bolt unscrewed so that you can see the flare on the bottom of the bolt, and the detents on the bottom of the GSXR mirror stalk. . . more on that in a minute.

GSXR Mirror mount 2

Last image: a clearer shot of the detents. Yes, they are rather small. But, when you take apart the stock GSXR mirror base you will see how these are intended to work. There are actually spring washers in the factory assembly which apply pressure into the joint. The detents mate up, and keep the mirror stalk from spinning, falling either forward or backward. The true beauty of this is that you CAN intentionally fold the mirrors back without fear of either over-tightening or loosening the bolt in the process. If I were recreating these mounts, I'd find a way to incorporate the detents in the newly machined base, and find a more suitable bolt which would not create outward pressure and would allow for the incorporation of the spring washers. . . .

GSXR Mirror mount 3

One more thing. . . .don't be thrown off by the fact that I have the Lobstender mirror extenders too. I wanted to get the mirrors farther out since I installed the top-mount luggage as well. Those have held up well over the years. . . .
Edited by N8sVFR

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I understand what you are talking about with the shape of the bolt, but the bolt was chosen b/c 1) the flat head allows ease of drilling for the hole for the wire to pass thru, and 2) it allows room at the top, once inserted and tightened, for the black OEM mirror cap to snap in and cover the hole. I *guess* there are other screws that might work that are flat on the top and not conical on the bottom. I'll go back to the email I originally got fir the CAD drawings and see what else might be on that list, if any.

You're calling those detents "spring washers" like they compress or move like a spring? I'm not sure where the spring action is coming from....?

Found it just now. Here's the link and the email about picking the bolt he did (third row, third from left):

"The top hole that secures the mirror stem to the mount is tapped with 3/8" course thread (16 tpi). You can of course pick a different size if you want/need to. The screws I bought were Philips countersunk , just like in this picture:

http://www-mdp.eng.cam.ac.uk/web/library/enginfo/textbooks_dvd_only/DAN/threads/intro/heads.jpg

I drilled a hole straight down though the screw to allow the wires to pass through the center of the screw. I also choose a Philips head which allows me to tighten the screws if they ever become loose without having to worry about the wires (just use a regular flat head screwdriver instead of a Philips)."


As far as changing the bolt, once I get the finished part in hand I have no problem trying something else that is not countersunk (no conical shape on the bottom) that still allows room to install the cap cover, and yet still tighten the bolt with the wire going thru it if need be.\

Edited by wgregt

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Take apart the OEM GSXR mirrors. You will find the spring washers that I am talking about. The detents aren't the spring washers. They just provide the engagement for the mount and the arm (obviously). I must not be explaining the assembly of the OEM mirrors very well. . . .

Anyway, just my suggestions for some potential improvements . . .if no one else is having any problems with the adapters, then maybe it was just my issue.

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I just went out and looked at all of the parts on my GSXR mirrors after I pulled them apart, and all I have are a couple shiny flat washers. So I'm guessing that ain't the spring washers. I'm guessing spring washers must be thinner washers? Still got yours somewhere?

If I can improve them, I gladly will. Just trying to get a handle on it to relay it to the guy doing the work.

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Believe it or not, sadly, I DO have the original parts from the first set of GSXR mirrors I pulled apart!! I looked at them this morning. The spring washers are black; they look like a regular flat washer at first, but if you look closely, they are actually slightly conical -- if you set them on a flat surface, the center of the washer is about 1/64" higher than the edge. I believe that there were 4 in the OEM assembly, but I'm not sure where they were located relative to the OEM 'rivit' that attached the stalk to the base. When my left mirror broke, I managed to find another set or GSXR OEM mirrors on EBay that I have laying around somewhere. I'll try to find them, drill them apart, and take photos, or let you know where the spring washers were originally. Then you can do as you wish with the new batch of adapter mounts. . . .who knows. It might not even be feasible to incorporate them. But I think it would be great if you could.

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I understand what you are talking about with the shape of the bolt, but the bolt was chosen b/c 1) the flat head allows ease of drilling for the hole for the wire to pass thru, and 2) it allows room at the top, once inserted and tightened, for the black OEM mirror cap to snap in and cover the hole. I *guess* there are other screws that might work that are flat on the top and not conical on the bottom. I'll go back to the email I originally got fir the CAD drawings and see what else might be on that list, if any.

You're calling those detents "spring washers" like they compress or move like a spring? I'm not sure where the spring action is coming from....?

Found it just now. Here's the link and the email about picking the bolt he did (third row, third from left):

"The top hole that secures the mirror stem to the mount is tapped with 3/8" course thread (16 tpi). You can of course pick a different size if you want/need to. The screws I bought were Philips countersunk , just like in this picture:

http://www-mdp.eng.cam.ac.uk/web/library/enginfo/textbooks_dvd_only/DAN/threads/intro/heads.jpg

I drilled a hole straight down though the screw to allow the wires to pass through the center of the screw. I also choose a Philips head which allows me to tighten the screws if they ever become loose without having to worry about the wires (just use a regular flat head screwdriver instead of a Philips)."

As far as changing the bolt, once I get the finished part in hand I have no problem trying something else that is not countersunk (no conical shape on the bottom) that still allows room to install the cap cover, and yet still tighten the bolt with the wire going thru it if need be.\

It's all about terminology folks... flat head philips is appropriate when referencing a machine screw.

I'm guessing that by "spring washer", he means a split lock washer?

92147a035p2-b01-ms-land.png?ver=13585071

Lastly, I'll offer 2 cents on the design... I would include a hollow threaded stud in the adapter. Then secure the mirror with a split lock washer and a nut instead of a hollow bolt. The nut can be tightened with a wrench, with the wires in place.

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OK. Hollow threaded stud sounds good to me if I can find 'em. Let me see about that. Never having used those before, I'm assuming the shaft doesn't spin when putting the nut on the one end...what's holding the other end tight since there isn't a head on it?

I think I do remember those flat black washers coming off, and I do remember thinking "Just regular washers...trash 'em."

Edited by wgregt

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Ideally, the stud would bottom out in the threaded hole when tightened, and be held in place with permanent thread lock to prevent it from backing out when removing the nut.

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Believe it or not, sadly, I DO have the original parts from the first set of GSXR mirrors I pulled apart!! I looked at them this morning. The spring washers are black; they look like a regular flat washer at first, but if you look closely, they are actually slightly conical -- if you set them on a flat surface, the center of the washer is about 1/64" higher than the edge. I believe that there were 4 in the OEM assembly, but I'm not sure where they were located relative to the OEM 'rivit' that attached the stalk to the base. When my left mirror broke, I managed to find another set or GSXR OEM mirrors on EBay that I have laying around somewhere. I'll try to find them, drill them apart, and take photos, or let you know where the spring washers were originally. Then you can do as you wish with the new batch of adapter mounts. . . .who knows. It might not even be feasible to incorporate them. But I think it would be great if you could.

I'd be interested to find out where they originally were. I'm sure they were not between the mating sets of notches between the end of the mirror and the GSXR base, so....where else would they even make sense and be able to put any pressure on the point of contact?

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I should ask... anyone else who has a set of these original GSXR mirror mounts from DBling: ever have any issues with cracking/splitting or even the mirrors flopping forward? Would love to hear about it if so.

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