Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted December 4, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2015 If we had a CAD or equivalent drawing could these be printed on a 3D printer with carbon fiber PLA? It was a while ago, but I did print these out on a 3D printer and even posted about it. I used the CAD file Greg has to print them. mostly as a proof of concept, rather than for actual use. My business partner is the one who knows more about the different 3D printing materials and was the one who printed them. If I remember correctly, PLA was better than ABS, especially if it was going to be exposed to the Sun quite a bit, as it is more UV resistant. How did the printed versions work? Any issues or call outs? Other than seeing if the CAD file was viable, I never did a test fit, as I do not have the GSXR mirrors, nor am I planning on using them. My partner advised against it as he did not do a lot of "fill", meaning their density wasn't going to be capable of much support. Theoretically, we can still try making some, I'd just have to buy the right material and confirm with my partner he has time to do them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk3dub Posted December 4, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2015 If someone sends me the cad file, I can make the changes and talk with some of our suppliers to get a price quote. Send me an email at salesatstoltecmotodotcom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I do not have an updated CAD file. I am working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk3dub Posted December 4, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2015 I can assist with the updating if you do not have the cability. We have a couple different CAD systems we can use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 PM sending now... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marooncobra Posted December 4, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2015 Gents, Once again many thanks for all your efforts in getting these mounts produced. If I was local to you I would be bringing round a six pack and blowing the froth off a few! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted December 7, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted December 7, 2015 Can't wait for this to happen! Keep up the good work gang! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellabroke Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 You have a lurker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Feel free to lurk. Right now, I'm in communication with a list member here about other options on these, all with the grand goal of trying to reduce the costs in getting such a small batch made. Because of the holidays and the travel and work schedule around them, I'm told it will be early January for the next steps, which is surely understandable. I'll get back to you guys when I know more. Thanks for hanging in there, and thanks for your patience again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted December 8, 2015 Thanks for the update . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk3dub Posted January 7, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 7, 2016 FOREWARNING: LONG POST - BEAR WITH ME. OK, I have a minor update. Well, it might not look like an update to the casual observer, but we've come a long way. Unfortunately, Greg's original model was being held hostage and we didn't have anything to work from. Fortunately, he did have the a printed part that was based on the original design. He sent this to me along with the GSXR mirror and base. I set to work and spent a few hours here and there getting us back to the starting line. I then added the detents and made a few improvements (from my perspective). I'd like to hear your thoughts. My seat of the pants thoughts: There is no way this wasn't going to be an expensive part. Although nicely designed/styled, it was clearly never best suited to being machined. The complex curves require CNC operation with multiple setups. In an ideal world, this part would be die cast - as the GSXR mirror base was. Of course, there is no way we could justify the tooling expense on such a small production run for jokers like us with an obsolete bike. So, machining it is! The detents will add some cost, but I agree that adding them is the right thing to do for strength and adjustment. If we're going to spend good money, we may as well get our money's worth. I know there has been discussion about some original owners cracking their mounts - forgive me for not looking through all 56+ pages, but what broke? The machined adapter base or the cast GSXR mirror stalk? Reference the three images attached to this post - two isometric views and one cross section. The changes I've made: As mentioned above, I added the detents. These still need to be clocked properly so the mirror sits in the right position on the bike. But, they're in the model ready to be properly oriented. I removed the radii that were shown a few pages back on the edges. Careful review of the parts indicate that the detents are chamfered, not rounded. This makes sense given how they work, and also saves some cost. Machining those little rounds on the outside corners is no small feat. No pun intended. I've enlarged the central hole to incorporate a threaded Keensert. This was done to improve durability and strength to ensure that the threads don't pull out if over-torqued. The original design didn't leave many threads engaged, especially over the wire pass-thru hole. Another advantage of the Keensert is that we'll avoid direct contact between the aluminum (though it is anodized) and the stainless steel bolt. This will reduce any chance of galling or galvanic corrosion. For those who aren't familiar with Keenserts (there are other trade names), do a Google search - neat product. Also, I added the standard drill bit angle on the bottom of the hole. This allows the machinist to use a standard sized drill instead of a flat bottom end mill. Should reduce cost a bit, but also helps with wire routing. I moved the wire pass thru hole off-center so that the wire now passes under the Keensert. This was done to give more thread engagement and improve the lead-in angle on the wiring. Should make snaking it through a bit easier. Moving the wire hole off center could make installing on the bike tricky - getting the hole drilled in the proper location so as not to pinch the wire. So, I added a pocket that will allow some flexibility in hole placement. Chamfered the hole to ensure that the wires don't get pinched and short out. As you can see, I've abandoned the thru-bolt concept that you guys came up with earlier. Not that I particularly disliked the idea, but I was hoping to keep the final design as clean as possible without any exposed fasteners or wires. Also, this shape requires less material and contour machining. If this is a show-stopper for some reason that I'm not privy to, let me know. I'm open to suggestions since I'm new to this party. Things that need to be done before quoting the design: Determine proper detent orientation. My plan was to install the printed part on the bike, paint the detents on the mirror, and 'stamp' the part with the wet-painted stalk in the position that makes sense. This would then be measured and transferred to the model. Review the original features - holes, bores, etc. for producibility - i.e. ensuring we didn't pick some off the wall non-standard tooling. Fix accordingly. Print a new part, install, and hope that the mirror is oriented properly. If not, adjust, rinse, repeat. Once we have the detents figured out, we can begin shopping the part with suppliers. Some will want a fully dimensioned/toleranced drawing, but others can work with the CAD model. So...a drawing may need to be created. We'll need to finalize the center-drilled bolt and bellville washers. My current design calls for a 10 mm bolt (IIRC) and a 5 mm thru hole. Anyway, sorry for the novel...I just wanted to ensure everyone who has been patiently waiting for so long is aware of the status. We're getting closer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 7, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 7, 2016 Thanks for the update . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marooncobra Posted January 7, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 7, 2016 Once again, many thanks for continuing to keep these mounts progressing to fruition. I look forward to when I can pay for them and get them fitted to my bike. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk3dub Posted January 11, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 11, 2016 Another update to better show you guys what I've done. I updated the assembly to included the threaded insert (red), the threaded insert stakes to lock in place (blue), the center drilled bolt (yellow), and a washer to capture the Bellville springs (orange). The mirror base is not shown here. I can use a set of the springs before settling on the bolt length and washer diameter. Anyone have them? Also, does anyone know the exact bolt size used on the original design? I do not have that. Still need to: 1. Verify mounting fastener size and update model accordingly. I'll have the bike up on the lift to fix CCTs and a leaky Scottoiler, so I'll do this then. 2. Assembly plastic piece to bike to figure out the detent clocking/orientation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rhoderage Posted January 14, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 14, 2016 This kind of stuff is a big part of why I'm so into my VFR - its a 15 y/o bike, and long after Honda moved on the enthusiasts are not only transplanting parts from other bikes on to ours, but actually engineering and creating new parts! Thanks for all the hard work, very awesome, and fun to follow the thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Just as an FYI folks: The images I posted earlier of the design have been deleted. Apparently, me posting them here solely in order to gain insight to the like-ability of the design, insight as to possible design failure flaws (esp. since the previous version broke on a few of you), and insight as to potential pricing (trying to judge at which point these become viable to you guys price-wise) has been seen (by non-forum members) as some sort of unwritten/unmentioned "breech" of a non-contract. So, we'll continue on with the latest design instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer deltaboxii Posted January 25, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 25, 2016 Maybe we will see this in 2016!!! I would have never imagined that this part would be so difficult to produce, even with my background working with factories/ manufacturing. Thanks for sticking with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Oy. If you only knew the half of it... It's not hard to make, it's hard to get the cost down for such a small number. Originally these COST (not what they sold for) was about $35 or so per set. That includes the drilled hardware. Shipping was not added to this. The latest proposal I got on the new design was about $120/set. This does not include the drilled hardware, which would add about $7 - $10 to it. Shipping was not added to this. To me, that's too much. Still trying to get some new CAD drawings I can shop around to get the price down. Stay with me, folks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer deltaboxii Posted January 25, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 25, 2016 Yes, $140 after hardware and shipping would not work even for those that REALLY wanted them... like me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I'll grab an oar b/c we're in the very same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 26, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 26, 2016 I know there is little gratitude BUT i and many here thank you for your efforts . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk3dub Posted January 26, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 26, 2016 Sadly, I can confirm that there is absolutely no way this design can be made for $35 per set. MAYBE if we outsourced to China, but even then, there is a lot of machining. The only way to bring the cost down is if one of us owned a machine shop w/ a CNC, did the programming for free, and only charged for the materials. Sadly, that won't happen. That said, all is not lost. I received the Belleville washers from Greg last week, but was out of town on business for a couple days and dealt with the homestead when I returned - which included 22 inches of snow. I'll have some time this week to wrap up a couple details before heading out on another trip. I'm working on this stuff as quickly as I can! Between two jobs and a family, there is only so much time left... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGREGT Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 No hurry. I prefer they be right vs. fast anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer deltaboxii Posted January 26, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 26, 2016 Absolutely. Gotta pay the bills and machining VFR parts certainly won't do that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Polarbear Posted January 26, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 26, 2016 Soooooooo, for argument's sake, is there another mirror brand and or design that might require a less complicated adapter base??? Would anyone have a suggestion about this? How about the new 8th gen? Just trying to look at it from a different angle... C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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