It Is Now Time For Some Serious Modifications...

[toro1]

welded_intake.jpg

amazes me that there are no issues w/ clearance w/ the gas tank... can't wait to see the finished product!

Well, it looks big...until you compare it to that monster of a stock airbox:

intake_comparo.jpg

As you can see, the new intake is no higher than the old one -- plus, it's sticking up an extra 1/2" in the air due to the runner tubes that sit down inside the throttle body. You can imagine how much room there would be if I was able to go with the side feed entrance.

Just goes to show, size is all relative

[toro1]

Can I have a drumroll please?.........

TADA! <-- click here

It works folks, it works mighty well. The blower is extremely quiet, with just a slight whistle/whine while cruising around; it's actually quite complimentary sounding to the gear driven cams. I am completely blown away that the bike can run with the rudimentary fuel map I have loaded -- while riding, the air/fuel ratio dances all over the place from 11 to 15, but it idles great and runs strong.

Initial riding impressions: cruising below 5000 rpm (I have to keep the revs low until the blower breaks in) the bike feels just like stock, but keep it near that 4500 rpm mark, and even in 3rd gear, you can tell the bike just wants to start pulling. Like I said before, the blower is very quiet but you can hear it, especially on decel, and it sounds mighty fine. The exhaust is definitely a bit louder than I previously thought, but it sounds absolutely wicked (was that a MotoGP bike that just went by?) yet still streetable.

I have some serious tuning that needs to be done before the bike is good to go, but I've certainly crested the hill. The belt tracks straight and true, and I can't see it ever coming off. The intake and tubing clears the tank, I don't have any oil or coolant leaks, and my temp didn't get above 175 (granted, it was a short jaunt).

Here are some pics of the install and final assembly:

starting_shot.jpg

parts.jpg

drive1.jpg

drive2.jpg

drive3.jpg

intake1.jpg

intake2.jpg

intake3.jpg

back_together_again.jpg

Once I get it running better, I'll come up with a real video to demonstrate the bike in all its supercharged glory. Until then, enjoy what I have posted here.

[toro1]

Alright dudes, thought I'd give you some more ride reports. I had it out last night for the first time on public roads, and even with a less-than-optimized fuel map, it really runs sweet. For the first time, I really nailed the throttle (again, keeping it under 6000rpm), and to be honest, I was kinda disappointed with the power -- until I realized that I was in 4th gear and it was pulling like it used to from lower rpms in 2nd!

If just cruising around, the manifold pressure is in a constant state of vacuum, but as soon as you open up the throttle, the boost instantly jumps up -- I was seeing 2.5psi at ~5500rpm, which essentially is like a 12hp/12ft-lb gain at the wheel. The power delivery is electric smooth -- think of a subway taking off, that's what it feels like. The sound is absolutely intoxicating; between the new exhaust, the gear-driven cams, and the incredible whirl of supercharger under boost (which is far more pronounced than when cruising), I don't think there's a better sounding bike on the planet.

I recorded some good data with the wideband, so I'll be working on a new map today, but I can't wait to head out and feel the new power in 2nd or 1st gear. So far, everyhing is a-ok, though I think the oil cooler does indeed work too well. For the whole ride, I never saw temps rise above 175. When I take it out again, I'll keep an eye on that, but I can easily forsee adding an oil thermostat.

Okay, time for some glamour shots. Right now, I have the headlight, tailight, mirrors and turnsignals rigged up so that the bike is legal, but they are absent from the pictures here. Enjoy.

front_quarter.jpg

side_shot.jpg

rear_quarter.jpg

Some of you were interested in where the new cooler sits. Here ya go:

cooler_shot.jpg

blower_setup.jpg

rear_shot.jpg

Yeah, it's a fake novelty plate. Pretty subtle, huh? And yes, the opening of the pipe really is that big.

[toro1]

OH. MY. GOODNESS. GRACIOUS.

This is all I can say. VFRs were never supposed to have this much power, but boy-oh-boy does the chassis handle it well!!

I don't know if you guys can tell, but I'm quite pumped. I went out for a 35 mile ride on some nice smooth backroads with no traffic, and decided to test the upper rpm range out for the first time. WOOOHOOOO!

Let's just say that at 10000rpm the bike is pulling ~6.25psi, and at 11000 it jumps to 7.25psi, which is right where I wanted it to land. No pinging, no blown engine, no blown head gasket, just the sweet sweet sound of the rotrex spinning at full tilt and the short 'psst' of the BOV in-between shifts. The acceleration is remarkable. Breathtaking. Can you say 3rd gear power wheelies? On a VFR??

What does this all mean power-wise? Well Fixer, I think this bike is going to come very close to your gix's power numbers -- I'll find out tomorrow when I hopefully strap it on the dyno and get some preliminary runs in. I can't believe how good the fueling is in the upper rpm range. Actually, the fueling is quite good everywhere, except for a lower rpm 10% throttle stumble/surge that I still need to iron out, but beyond that, this bike runs terrific.

I was literally having a hard time keeping the front end on the ground in 2nd with the throttle pinned past 7 grand -- the thing just puuuullllllllllllls. I am seriously contemplating changing the gearing around since 6th gear now feels like 4th, and I find the bike tacked up quite often! Not to mention that 1-2 shift coming awfully quickly...

I weigh 220lbs -- a 150lb rider would not know what to do with themselves on this bike.

On a side note, whenever I take it up around 10000rpm, the FI light pops on. The bike still rides exactly the same, but the idle climbs up to 1400rpm from its normal 1200rpm. Once I turn the bike off & on again, it resets. I had previous error codes in the computer, so I can't gather much from that as of yet, but anyone have an idea what could be going on? The bike runs exactly the same, with the only difference being a slightly higher idle.

Okay, hopefully by tomorrow I'll have some numbers for you all, but until then, just try imagining almost 7psi right in the powerband of the engine. MMMMMMmmmmm.

[toro1]

Preliminary Dyno Testing

New vs. old (I only took the bike to ~11400rpm in this pull, while the original run was maxxed at 12500rpm, hence the discrepancy, but notice how similar the operating conditions are):

This one is in actual engine rpm:

As you might notice, the dyno has been fixed -- turned out to be some minor glitches with the Winpep software & a bad power supply. The torque curve is flat as a pancake from 8000 on, hovering at the 63-65lb-ft mark, with over 50lb-ft available from 5500 & up (note: I did not have a torque curve for the before run, so I cannot compare the two side by side without interpolation). The air/fuel curve looks pretty good for no dyno tuning -- I'll just richen it up some in the high r's.

I put the Staintune pipe back on for testing since my shorty is completely unproven in the power production department.

Also, my bike in the before run had the following things done: PCII with map dyno-optimized for 93 octane, K&N filter, Staintune slip-on, ceramic coated headers, intake snorkel removed.

My buddy's '99 has a K&N, Staintune, PCII with 87 octane map, and the intake snorkel removed, and his bike pulled 95hp on this same dyno.

With some extra tuning and a few more r's, I'm sure I can get a some more ponies out of it, but all in all, it runs very well at WOT and pulls incredibly hard. This bike is a great compromise between being able to commute at 45 mph with no drama, and being able to lift the front tire in 4th gear -- it's all in how much you twist your right wrist. No unwanted boost spikes, no 7psi when you're trying to manuever in the parking lot, it just feels like any other 800...until you want it to go faster, which it will with ease.

Videos still to come.

[toro1]

Last night I decided to test out a very basic camera mount on the bike. What results is a very poor quality video (but a video, nonetheless) with lots of wind noise, shaking, and youtube video artifacts. I'll try to upload it later with a higher quality file and see if it comes out clearer. Anyway, this is the last on-bike vid I'm going to take until I get the fairings back on.

This was simply a very slow roll on in 2nd gear (with full throttle from 7000rpm on up), full throttle in 3rd, then letting off shifting into 4th and cruising away through 6th. Watch the boost gauge in the lower right -- when it shoots up, you know I'm on the throttle. It actually hits ~9psi the first time I nail it, and just goes to show how the bike never stops pulling through the rev range. More to come, but for now, enjoy.

[toro1]

Alright everybody. It's been a little while since my last update, but I wanted to acquire some pictures before I added another post.

The bike is officially "done" (for now, anyway). The fairing fits perfectly and the bike is quite civilized. Take a gander at some completed pictures below:

DSCF5110small.jpg

DSCF5111small.jpg

DSCF5127small.jpg

DSCF5120small.jpg

DSCF5136small.jpg

DSCF5131small.jpg

DSCF5134small.jpg

OK, here's the good news: I am going to produce supercharger kits. The 5th gen will be first, followed shortly (I hope) by the 6th gens. You can rest assured that by the time these kits are released, they will be completely debugged and professional in every regard. I know what works and what doesn't, which leads me to the bad news.

After discussing this kit with others who have far more experience (and connections) than I, and from my own personal experience with the bike, some changes are going to be made to certain key components of the kit, mainly the drive, intake, and fueling systems. What this means is that until I get these things ironed out, production will be on hold.

However, I will of course keep you all posted with my progress, and when it's all said and done, expect even better ridability, fuel economy, and durability, with likely an extra 15 ponies to boot. This is the real deal folks. Anyone who wants to take it for a spin before I start breaking it down again, let me know. Maybe we can have a local meet some Saturday or Sunday this fall...

The bottom line: for anyone interested in taking their VFR to a whole 'nother level, now, more than ever, stay tuned (and stay patient :thumbsup:!).

[toro1]

I had a chance to pop the bike on the dyno today, as I was very curious to see how it would perform fully faired and with the new pipe installed (instead of the Staintune). What resulted is as follows:

per Speed...

per Engine RPM...

comparison vs. N/A bike #1 (my bike pre supercharger)...

comparison vs. N/A bike #2 (my buddy's '99)...

Just imagine if I can intercool this setup and turn up the boost another 2 psi...

By the way, my offer is still on if anyone wants to meet up Sunday.

[redmarque]

Not sure if any of you guy's read thekneeslider interesting article on a vfr over there! :D

The Kneeslider

[Baileyrock]

This Thread was purged down to Toro's actual modding post as per my contact with him.

He will start a new thread when he actually gets some kits ready to sell. :thumbsup:

[toro1]

Boy, this just keeps going, huh? I've read the kneeslider myself on numerous occasions.

Just thought I'd clarify some things. First, Bailey and I decided to trim the thread down to it's present size as it had grown to mammoth, gargantuan proportions (30 pages, 889 replies) and was taking up just a bit of space on the ole server. I have the entire thread backed up, so if any info is ever needed from it, I'm sure there's some way to make it accessible again.

As Dan has said, I am still very much involved in this process and would like nothing more than to make this supercharger kit a successful, realistic option for all '98-up VFR owners. Not a day goes by that I am not toiling away in the lab to make this kit better, faster, stronger. I have a few suprises in store as well, so anyone interested in adapting this to your bike and picking up 50 ponies along the way, be patient. When I have updates, you will absolutely know about them.

Also, as far as potential buyers are concerned, I'm very hesitiant to throw a price out there until I know for sure the final configuration of the kit, but take a look around the web at other supercharger/turbo kits for bikes and cars. Chances are that this one will end up priced somewhere in that ballpark, so if that's something you can financially manage, stay tuned.

Think about it this way: a supercharger system for a bike you know and love is going to be a whole lot cheaper than buying a new bike, and the bike you know and love will just end up giving you even more to love.

And who doesn't want some more love? :goofy:

--Dan

PS - You guys rock. You were a driving force behind getting this completed the first time, and you're the driving force behind getting this completed the second time (and hopefully, many times after that...)

:thumbsup:

[toro1]

I've been thinking about the best way to go about pricing this kit (at least initially) for a little while now. John is absolutely right in that the more kits I move, the cheaper I can sell them for -- machining costs and the superchargers themselves drop greatly in price as the number of kits sold goes up.

I think I might end up trying a modified group buy; that is, for 2 weeks or so, there would be a sign-up sheet, and depending on how many people have committed to it, a price break would follow. So if three people sign up, it would be full price. Ten people might drop it to 5% off, 50 people might make it 15% off, etc. etc. This is just an idea at this point -- I'll worry about the specifics later as I have slightly more pressing matters to worry about right now.

[toro1]

I'm wondering about difficulty or ease of install. I'm sure I'd need some help with some stuff.

Honestly, if you are able to change your own oil & spark plugs, or clean your air filter, you can do this install. You will need certain tools (like a torque wrench, metric allen wrenches, sockets of all sorts -- I will have a tool list), and a Honda shop manual is highly recommended, but this kit is truly nothing more than unbolting things and bolting new things back up. The only "fabrication" involved is the minor trimming of the fairing panel, and anybody with a steady hand and a file can do that job.

Just a thought, I'm not sure how you're planning on configuring the kit, but maybe set something up that doesn't include the actual supercharger. From a financing perspective, you won't be putting your cashflow into an inventory of actual blowers, you could just spec out the unit required. Then a group buy could potentially be set up with rotrex.

...it's likely that the largest expense would be the blower itself.

The blower is by far the most expensive component. While it is indeed true that I get a price break from Rotrex depending on the number of units sold, it's not that big of a discount. I was planning on doing something similar to what you have described, though.

[toro1]

The instructions provided with the kit will be super clear on what to do during the install. Like I said before, you will need certain tools and you will have to be able drain the fluids from the bike (including the gas) to do this job, and there is fairing clearancing required. If by glancing at the instructions you feel hesitant about any steps and you do not have someone to help you, I would suggest taking it to a shop to get it done properly. But really, it is quite easy to install the whole system by yourself.

Also, the modifications I spoke of serve to enhance the durability of the supercharger, to promote even greater rideability and fuel consumption, and improve manufacturability. I have been riding this bike since August, and there have been zero hiccups with the engine or supercharger, just insane amounts of power (as in, punch it from a cruise in 3rd gear and directly control how much sky you see, for as long as you like, by the twisting of your right hand).

I want this to be the highest quality kit possible, without any bugs, hassles, or problems for the user. The refinements I am making now will hopefully meet this goal, along with making the entire kit easier to produce (and easier to upgrade :salesman:).

[toro1]

eeerrrr... uummm... well?????? 5th gen kit please

Oh it's coming. Basically, I've ironed out the parts of the kit that needed redesign, and I'm working on some cool features that will put this thing over the top, so just wait my friends - just wait. I can assure you that you will like what you see.

I'm probably going to need another month to get all the details finalized -- after that, well, hopefully this will all turn to reality.

[toro1]

Okay. Alright.

I can tell some folks are getting anxious. I'm still very much involved in this project and quite honestly, the majority of the big design hurdles have been cleared. Machining of the updated parts should start quite soon, and once that's done, all there will be left to do is test the thing.

Speaking of parts, something showed up here the other day. Not quite sure what it is, but maybe it can be used in the kit somehow...

mystery_object1.jpg

mystery_object2.jpg

These things have a bunch of fins with holes in the center...who knows what they're used for.

I also found these files on my hard drive, not sure if they can be of any use, but they sure are interesting looking.

preview?.gif

Just a few more months guys...

[kaldek]

I know you are planning on a 98 + kit but I am hesitant about slapping on a kit designed for a 5th gen bike onto a VTEC setup. Will there be a 6th Gen test bike to make sure this will work? I am not the expert here but I do know that fuel mapping is VERY important in forced air setups.

I'm pretty sure a PowerCommander is a requirement for this setup, for various reasons:

- Bigger injectors

- Bigger fuel pump (as I recall)

- An airflow that the stock ECU map would probably have no calculation for

The biggest problem I see with the 6th-gen will be VTEC itself. Forced induction removes any of the so-called benefits of two-valves and better combustion swirl, so it would be best to switch the bike back to non-VTEC. This could be done either mechanically or electrically via a circuit which forces the oil solenoid on all the time. I'd prefer a mechanical solution personally, by replacing the VTEC valve componentry with the components (buckets & shims) from the other valves. Someone needs to make a project of it (until I have a spare bike, it's not likely to be me!).

[toro1]

Seb & Kev, your guesses might be closer than you realize...

The 6th-gen will have its very own kit developed for it. In no way, shape, or form will I try to just slap on a 5th-gen kit and market it for VTEC bikes. The success of this kit is attributed to thousandths of an inch (and in some cases, tenths) accuracy and I fully plan on obtaining a bike to design a kit around.

Many parts are the same, but far too many are different: obviously the fairing is changed, but did you know the throttle body is different? How about the valve covers? The frame is slightly tweaked and the big coils are gone. All this means that some of the parts I have already designed will need to be redesigned, though the majority of parts will interchange.

A Power Commander is an absolute necessity. If you do not already own one, you will have to buy one to use this kit. Also, I'm really not too concerned about VTEC. Remember this, for the majority of the time spent riding your bike (and especially while cruising), the engine sees only vacuum, thus the standard tune is only slightly modified to work with the supercharger. In the same way that tuning can smooth out the VTEC transition, so can tuning help nullify the VTEC effect with the blower.

With the purchase of a kit, a customer will receive a fuel map 90% optimized for their bike. Much like the predetermined fuel maps that come with a Power Commander, the fuel map I provide will be solid enough that further tuning is really more of an option. These fuel maps are tuned with real-world miles, not just strapped down to a dyno in a closed room. To do this, an actual 6th-gen bike will be used to fine-tune the fuel mapping and make sure that a bike with one of my kits will perform out of the box.

All this will come after I introduce the 5th-gen kit, however, but it should not be long after that.

[toro1]

Toro, I read recently that CBR1100XX injectors could be used. Did you look into this?

HP of the XX was 137 from the factory, seems close to what you are putting out.

Rob, the Blackbird injectors would be perfect for this application. The problem is that I can't get them at a realistic price unless I buy vast quantities of them directly from Keihin (basically acting as an OEM). I've figured out a great solution for the Stage 1 kit, and have a good idea of how to fuel the Stage 2 kit as well.

Now, if anyone has a connection/stockpile of Blackbird/S2000 injectors, we need to talk...

Compressor AND Turbo!!!! :thumbsup:

Well, considering a single Rotrex can support up to 600hp, how fast would you like to go?

[Guest moko]

I puchesd a supercharger kit form calisuperbikes.com for my zx10r. haveing vary hard time getting all of the parts from them my concern would be the crank outrigger ,and pully. I have the rotex part and bullshit airbox no bov ,fuel pump or drive belt. The rotex unit has a 70mm 7 rib pully. The zx10 crank cover and bering looks to be right, but the crank outrigger is to narrow for the opening in the bering . Maybe this outrigger belongs to dif type bike. DO NOT BUY FROM CALISUPERBIKES, memeber on gixxer.com had some issues with jason at calisuperbikes. I found out after my deal. if youl could help let me know thanks.

i would ...besides here....post this on zrxoa site theres a few guys building turbos and could help you on your supercharger....here's a link to the turbo section of the forum.

http://zrxoa.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=148

[toro1]

Holy WOW! So I've been away from the forum for a while and this is what happens when I'm gone!!! TORO how do I get on the list? 2004 VFR waiting for a Torosupercharger.... and the owner is a little stoked at the idea too. Has a price point been discussed? Time line for manufacturing? Let me know if you need my personal info to secure a kit.

Price point: Unsure of that right now (if I have to ballpark it, plan on price landing somewhere between $4-6k, with a possible discount for the initial run of kits)

Timeframe: I hope to have my bike up and running & the first 'experimental' kit out within the next 1-2 months -- production 5th-gen kits will follow shortly after that, and once I can get my hands on a 6th-gen, that kit will follow as well.

Just keep you eyes peeled here for more info regarding progress/pricing. This is going to be the ultimate bolt-on you can purchase for your VFR.

[toro1]

For anyone wondering about the price, remember this -- the supercharger itself is close to $2000, and there are over 25 different parts being CNC'd, with the total number of machined parts numbering at least twice that. Throw in the hardware, anodizing, filters, o-rings, etc. etc, and then a tiny bit for me, and you can start to see where the expense is coming from.

I could make this kit cheaper by outsourcing parts to China, but I personally don't believe in doing that and very much like to support the local shops. I can guarantee that you will never once have to worry about the quality of this kit, and I have invested far too many engineering hours for it to be anything but perfect.

Just remember that you get what you pay for, and in this case, that means a 50% power boost.

[VFR_Brandon]

Hmmm I would consider selling my new 08 Busa for this. About as much acceleration but in a smaller, lighter, more comfortable package. Not to mention my monthly payments would be MUCH less than they are now. :fing02:

01 VFR: 458.6/140=3.275 Horses per pound

08 Busa: 485/172=2.82 Horses per pound.

01 VFR Torque 458.6/60=7.64

08 Busa Torque 485/102=4.75

Should be pretty fun!

* these are dry weights and rear wheel horse power numbers not at the crank.

Did I do that right? Looking at the torque im not so sure.

Looking at these numbers a Torocharged VFR should be FASTER than a Busa on the low end?

[toro1]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't posted here lately (lotsa work + big decisions = lost time). I'll try to answer some questions for you...

The development period has been extended due to forces out of my control. While the kit has been completely designed & engineered, I'm still awaiting key components needed to get the bike running again. It's always been my intent to update progress once I had enough to show you all, and I still intend to do just that, so stay patient.

In terms of power, I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth here, but I expect the updated kit to put down an honest 150hp at the wheel (depending on exhaust choice & dyno, of course). Brandon, the Busa will kill this bike in the torque department, but the power-to-weight ratio should be quite close. In the real world, the bike never feels underpowered. Even lugging it in 6th gear, it feels like it's a gear down and power is at the ready. It will instantly loft the front wheel from any rpm in 2nd gear, and comes up with ease in 3rd (granted, I do have steeper than stock gearing, but I could never do the things I can do now with the stock setup).

John, the beefier clutch springs have been installed, and while the lever pull is tougher than stock, it's not too bad. I can't report yet on how much better it performs with them installed, though.

Nymbyss, believe me, I was not trying to pull a wheelie in that video as my camera was precariously mounted. Nevertheless, the huge bump in power caused the front end to rise like it did. Oh, and my speedometer has been calibrated with the speedohealer, so what you see is not fudged by gearing. The acceleration is so much fun to experience since the boost never stops building -- where with the stock setup the power plateaus and falls off, the supercharged setup gives the sensation of neverending power. It's addicting.

I really hope to have some nice new pictures to show in the upcoming weeks, so until then, everybody have fun riding (because I know I won't be...:rolleyes:)

[toro1]

Wow. 100,000 views.

:rolleyes:

Thanks everybody -- I promise some fun things in the next 3 weeks.