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Need Battery Charging Help


Nozz

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Fellow VFR'er's,

After my triumphant return from the Middle East, my bike's battery is dead. I mean, really really dead. Nothing lights up when I turn the key. It sat for about a year, so I'm trying to return it to service. Here's my dilemma: I borrowed a friend's battery charger, but it has several settings, and I'm not too sure which one to use, or how long will it take to return the battery to its full charge, if possible. The battery could be dead, with no hope of survival, but I want to at least try it first before I chunk down the greenbacks.

The batter charger has this for settings: 6v / 12v and 2 / 6 amp. I think I should use the 6v setting, but which amperage? Also, there's a gauge that reads DC amperes. What should my battery be reading?

Here are my questions:

  1. Which voltage to use on the battery charger?
  2. Which amperage to use on the battery charger?
  3. How long to fully recharge?
  4. What should the "DC ampere" gauge read when charged?
  5. Should I just get a new battery?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Nozz

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Use the 12v setting. 6amp/h is ok for larger batteries or if you keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn't get hot. 2amp/h if you want to turn it on and go to work or bed. The meter should read somewhere above 12v when charged (noticed your guage is amperage...not sure what it would read). I wouldn't doubt if your battery is weakend or damaged, but give it a shot and see what happens. I'm not sure how long it will take to charge. There's a formula based on the charge rate and capacity, but I don't know the capacity of your battery.

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Yeah, what he said.

If the battery is pretty sad, then it may need the higher amperage initially, then trickle-charged at the lower rate, which is what auto chargers do.

Is this a car battery charger? M/C batteries are essentially the same, but being smaller with thinner plates and what not, it's easy to wreck them completely by zapping them with too many amps as they may overheat, buckle the plates (which shorts the cells out and therefore drops the output voltage).

Anyway - it's worth giving it a shot, to see if it recovers. If it's sealed, it shouldn't have dried out, so it's just discharged completely and should respond to charging OK. That's assuming it hasn't done something naughty like got sedimented up with sulphates at the bottom of the cells, which also shorts the cells out, and is what usually happens when batteries get old and tired. Especially bike batteries, which are subject to more heat and vibration than a car battery, and are less robust anyway as the plates are so little and puny.

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no to the battery buy

when first turned on with the 12V/2Ah setting, you should see the meter peg out at 2 amps. after several hours, it should begin dropping. leave it on overnight and in the morning, it should have dropped close to 0 amps (aka the battery is charged (full) and no more energy can be put into it). also, keep your battery off the concrete floor. put it on some wood or carpet or...

and thanks for serving!

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If the bike has been stored for a year the battery is probably toast. It'll be so sulfated, it'll never be right. Just bite the bullet and buy a new one.

Charge it at 10% of it's capacity for 12 hours and you'll have the peace of mind of no problems for thr next 3-4 years.

You might want to check the charging voltage to assure the system is up to snuff. 13.7 - 14.5 VDC @ 3000 RPM's

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You can try charging it, but it'll probably never be quite the same again.

Bike might run, but any little drain is going to kill the battery very quickly.

Try the 12V, 2A setting and ignore it for 24 hours. Then try it in the bike and see what happens.

You may see it's OK for a few rides, but find that the battery tires easily and won't start the bike more than once in a row.

If you do need to buy a new battery, try an absorbed glass mat type, native to the ST1300 with greater amp/hour capacity.

Yuasa YTZ-14S

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.asp?...79&vID=1791

Need a 3/4" spacer underneath it as it is shorter than the stock YTX-12BS. Other than that, fits right in.

I made a spacer out of 3/4" plywood and dropped it to the bottom of the battery box. Done.

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Great stuff! Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming. I jumped start it once from my car, and after a while, it ran, but died after 10 min at idle. I hope the alternator isn't shot. Do you think it's dead? How do I check the alternator?

Also, how much does a new VFR motorcycle battery run me? Any good deals out there? Local Honda shop? Sears? Walmart?

Nozz

P.S. I'm quite happy to serve in our armed forces! Thanks for your support. This board is the best.

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If you do need to buy a new battery, try an absorbed glass mat type, native to the ST1300 with greater amp/hour capacity.

Yuasa YTZ-14S

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.asp?...79&vID=1791

What are the benefits of this kind of battery versus the OEM VFR one?

Nozz

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After you charge the batt, get it fired up and take it for a good long ride, but I'd stay close to home in case if dies and you can't restart it.

When you get home and everything is warmed right up, check the battery voltage with a digital voltmeter and you should see 13+ volts at idle, and when you rev it to 5000 RPM, the voltage should rise up a bit and settle out.

I'd invest in a permanent voltmeter to have on the bike at all times so you can watch the health of your charging system.

Like the I4C waterproof voltmeter. http://i4cproducts.com/12%20Volt%20Applications.htm

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If you do need to buy a new battery, try an absorbed glass mat type, native to the ST1300 with greater amp/hour capacity.

Yuasa YTZ-14S

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.asp?...79&vID=1791

What are the benefits of this kind of battery versus the OEM VFR one?

Nozz

Longer self-discharge rate, greater cranking amps and longer battery life due to the AGM type construction which is more resistant to vibration.

CCA for the AGM YTZ-14S is 230A Vs 180 for the standard VFR YTX-12BS battery.

And no liquid acid sloshing about in the AGM battery so it's a safer design.

FAQ swiped off the net, they are refering to specific brand name batteries for wind power generation/storage, but the basic principles apply to an automotive application as well:

AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries

A newer type of sealed battery uses "Absorbed Glass Mats", or AGM between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. We sell the Concorde (and Lifeline, made by Concorde) AGM batteries. These are also called "starved electrolyte", as the mat is about 95% saturated rather than fully soaked. That also means that they will not leak acid even if broken.

AGM batteries have several advantages over both gelled and flooded, at about the same cost as gelled:

Since all the electrolyte (acid) is contained in the glass mats, they cannot spill, even if broken. This also means that since they are non-hazardous, the shipping costs are lower. In addition, since there is no liquid to freeze and expand, they are practically immune from freezing damage.

Nearly all AGM batteries are "recombinant" - what that means is that the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine INSIDE the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost.

The charging voltages are the same as for any standard battery - no need for any special adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. And, since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents. The Concorde (and most AGM) batteries have no charge or discharge current limits.

AGM's have a very low self-discharge - from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. The Concorde batteries can be almost fully recharged (95% or better) even after 30 days of being totally discharged.

AGM's do not have any liquid to spill, and even under severe overcharge conditions hydrogen emission is far below the 4% max specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. The plates in AGM's are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

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$104 from these guys, genuine Yuasa:

http://www.motorcyclebatteriesusa.com/batt...asp?battery=750

Enter special holiday code in shopping cart for an additional 2% off (big whoopie) MBUSA545

Free free standard ground UPS or DHL shipping too, apparently.

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:offtopic:

Congrats on getting home again.

and thx for having looked after our (wo)men on the ground (there aren't that many out there, but still)

Donot forget to lay down a celebratory donut before replacing the tires.... :biggrin:

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If the bike has been stored for a year the battery is probably toast. It'll be so sulfated, it'll never be right. Just bite the bullet and buy a new one.

Charging it with high voltage (20) and low amps can sometimes rid the plates of the sulfates. Could take several hours, after which you see the current increase and you have to lwer the voltage to normal. A good battery tender will do this automaticaly.

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I hope the alternator isn't shot. Do you think it's dead? How do I check the alternator?

Alternators vary output with rpm's. You probably weren't charging any more than the bike was drawing while at idle. Charge it for a while, and ride it close to home to see what happens. I've also heard that you can remove sulfates with a hard charge liked V4 Rosso mentioned, but I've never tried it. You have nothing to lose if a regular charge doesn't get the battery back in shape, so give it a shot.

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Alternators vary output with rpm's. You probably weren't charging any more than the bike was drawing while at idle.

I think you might be supprised. I have an amp meter on my bike, and at idle it is charging at around 2-3 amps. Buzzing down the road I see anywhere from 5 to 15 amps, usually somewhere around 9 or so.

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Alternators vary output with rpm's. You probably weren't charging any more than the bike was drawing while at idle.

I think you might be supprised. I have an amp meter on my bike, and at idle it is charging at around 2-3 amps. Buzzing down the road I see anywhere from 5 to 15 amps, usually somewhere around 9 or so.

2-3 amps....how many amps does the headlights, tail lights, instrument cluster, ignition system, etc. draw? You are confirming exactly what I said. Charging 2-3 amps vs. 5-15 when when the rpms rise.

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My amp meter reads what is used and what is charging voltage. Turn the bike on and the meter reads around -18 amps. Thus the bike is using 18 amps to prime the fuel pump and turn the headlights on. Then start the motor and the meter reads around 2-3 amps. Thus the bike is charging at 2-3 amps. But the altenator is producing 20-21 amps. The terminals for my meter are installed inline just infront of the main fuse block between it and the battery. This is so that the meter doesn't see the starter when you crank it.

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also, keep your battery off the concrete floor. put it on some wood or carpet or...

I recently heard on an auto repair TV show that this is not true and found this on the interweb:

http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm

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My amp meter reads what is used and what is charging voltage. Turn the bike on and the meter reads around -18 amps. Thus the bike is using 18 amps to prime the fuel pump and turn the headlights on. Then start the motor and the meter reads around 2-3 amps. Thus the bike is charging at 2-3 amps. But the altenator is producing 20-21 amps. The terminals for my meter are installed inline just infront of the main fuse block between it and the battery. This is so that the meter doesn't see the starter when you crank it.

That's still in the spirit of what I was talking about. The guy has a completely dead battery, most likely a damaged one. 2 amps probably won't be enough to overcome it from a completely dead state.

I'm actually surprised that the VFR puts out as much as it does on the battery side at idle considering all the loss to undersized wires, weak connectors, etc. that have been reported the last few years. I guess the wiring is more robust from the stator to the battery. IIRC, yours is a 5th gen, so you may be getting more out of it than a 6th gen. I don't recall reading about wiring and stator troubles in 5th gens.

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I doubt that it would do any good either, I was just stating that the vfr's charging at idle is much stronger than you might think. It supprised me for sure. I expected to see a negative number at idle, and somewhere around 4-5 amps at speed. Made me feel much better about adding farkles knowing that there was some avaliable juice to use.

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I doubt that it would do any good either, I was just stating that the vfr's charging at idle is much stronger than you might think. It supprised me for sure. I expected to see a negative number at idle, and somewhere around 4-5 amps at speed. Made me feel much better about adding farkles knowing that there was some avaliable juice to use.

Same here. Now that I think about it my VFR's lights don't brighten when it comes off idle like my old bikes did. I'm sure it's due to a combination of more efficient lighting, better batteries, and positive amps at idle.

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also, keep your battery off the concrete floor. put it on some wood or carpet or...

I recently heard on an auto repair TV show that this is not true and found this on the interweb:

http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm

cool..thanks. this is one of those "daddy told me to do it this way" things. it never cost me anything, so i just always kept doing it. doh! :offtopic:

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