superloadedcat Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 today my 00 vfr800 didnt start. it tried to, but it was the symptoms of a dead/dying battery. lights came on, starter motor cranked slightly, then slowly stopped. just like a car with a dead battery. tried it again and it didnt get as far. so i bumped started it. no problem. started riding down the road and i noticed after a few miles that my tach was at 0 rpms at low rpms/idle, and then would JUMP to say 5k when it hit 5k. anything above around 5k the tach worked fine. durring the ride home, it just felt like it wanted to die. i actually ended up revving the engine at stop lights just to keep it ruinning. once home, i pulled in the clutch, and the engine died on my driveway. hit the ignition switch and no start, although i had the dash and headlights on and working. so i left it alone for about 30 mins, tried to start it again, and although i felt i had more 'juice', it still wasnt enough to start it up. starter motor tries but quickly dies. voltmeter shows just under 11 volts directly from the battery. if i leave it alone, it climbs a bit, but not really more than 11.5 or so. battery is the stock original, and has been re-charged once about a year ago. it is 6 years old, 24,000 miles on it. should i buy a batter tender/charger, or just go for a new battery? help, im poor. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fretka Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I've owned motorcycles of one kind or another since 1969 and I don't remember EVER getting 6 years out of a battery, usually more like 3 or 4. You have all the classic symptoms of a dead battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 It's too bad that our bikes lack a voltmeter. With a voltmeter, one can monitor the voltage every time the starter is operated and, if the voltage begins to be lower and lower every time the bike is started, one knows that the battery is beginning to fail. Also, one can use it to monitor the charging voltage to head off potential problems before they become major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 You need a new battery, and possibly a new reg/rec too. Get the battery then check to see that voltages are within normal range: 12.8v at rest/off 13.5v at idle 14.5v at a steady 5k rpm Motorcycle batteries don't charge very well off the stator - you should always tricklecharge using a charger that can be set to 1amp or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 You need a new battery, and possibly a new reg/rec too. Get the battery then check to see that voltages are within normal range:12.8v at rest/off 13.5v at idle 14.5v at a steady 5k rpm Motorcycle batteries don't charge very well off the stator - you should always tricklecharge using a charger that can be set to 1amp or less. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have a question here. You say battery voltage should be "12.8v at rest/off". I have charged my battery for a few days now. Directly after I take off the charger I have 13+ V in the battery, but after a while it drops down to 12,6V and stays there. Is my battery fried? I have had some charging problem on the bike (R/R trouble). Is it possible that my 1 year old battery have been damaged...and therefor I only get 12,6V?? It?s on ordinary Yusa-battery I'm talking about...if it matters. //KaliZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Unfortunately the reg/rec, when it starts to fail, usually does damage the battery. 12.6v is not too bad, but the fact that you're getting voltage drop at all is worrying. I assume these figures are with the battery out of the bike, so there's no open circuit drain causing the battery to drop. The battery brand does matter - and Yuasa is a good brand, not known for manufacturing defects. The best Yuasa are the Japanese-made ones, but they are pricier than the Taiwanese-made ones. However, it's money well spent. There's nothing more likely to strand you on a VFR as the electrical system - so don't scrimp, or you might pay for it later. I'd suggest you have the battery tested by an autoelectrician or a battery vendor. The battery and reg/rec enjoy a symbiotic relationship, and when one goes bad so does the other. If the battery checks out ok, do something about your reg/rec, otherwise it will probably take the battery out with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Unfortunately the reg/rec, when it starts to fail, usually does damage the battery. 12.6v is not too bad, but the fact that you're getting voltage drop at all is worrying. I assume these figures are with the battery out of the bike, so there's no open circuit drain causing the battery to drop.The battery brand does matter - and Yuasa is a good brand, not known for manufacturing defects. The best Yuasa are the Japanese-made ones, but they are pricier than the Taiwanese-made ones. However, it's money well spent. There's nothing more likely to strand you on a VFR as the electrical system - so don't scrimp, or you might pay for it later. I'd suggest you have the battery tested by an autoelectrician or a battery vendor. The battery and reg/rec enjoy a symbiotic relationship, and when one goes bad so does the other. If the battery checks out ok, do something about your reg/rec, otherwise it will probably take the battery out with it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great...fast answer! You're right...this is when the battery is out of the bike. After havin the battery standing for about 3 days, the voltaget won?t continue dropping. Never goes under 12,6V (about 12,65V to be more specific). I've bought a new R/R...scary thought if the battery needs to bee replaced as well. :o I shall make some calls tomorrow and see if I can do this battery-test, you talking about, somewhere around here. //KaliZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 The normal voltage for a fully charged battery is 12.6 volts when it is idle. However, immediately after it has been charged, the voltage is somewhat higher because of a surface charge. If a fully charged battery is lightly loaded briefly (such as by turning on the lights for a minute or so) or sits for a while after being charged, the voltage should drop to 12.6. If it drops lower, then either it is not fully charged or it is defective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WaterMan Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 As others have mentioned, a voltmeter is nice. I just installed the i4C LED voltmeter. It's got a 4 digit readout, each number is about 1" high. I mounted it in the dash, and I am really happy with it. At $60 it was a little spendy, but the finished product looks slick. Now, at least I'll have some warning before the ole Viffer won't start. I'll try to post photos. And, yes, a batteryminder is a great friend to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard France Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Hello, I'm french so my english is not perfect. Sometimes it's the regulating/ rectifier is broken. It's my case after 40000 miles. At the beginning I changed my battery but in fact it was the reg/rec. For check , the motor must run at 5000 rounds/minute and you must have between 13.5V to 16V at the battery. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Hello, I'm french so my english is not perfect. Don't worry about it. Most of us Americans know only English so we cannot complain if someone who's first language is not English has trouble with English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kerplode Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 My $0.02... You can't really learn anything interesting about a battery from a no-load voltage meaurement. Even a totally shagged battery will show ~12.5V under 0 load, so long as there are no internal shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 You can learn whether or not the battery is fully charged, although that's not the only important thing to know. If the battery is fully charged, then one can do a load test if one has the proper equipment and specifications; most of us don't. Done properly, a specified load is applied to the battery while monitoring the voltage to see whether it drops below the specified minimum. I have no idea where to get the relevent specifications for a motorcycle battery, but they should be available somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 My $0.02...You can't really learn anything interesting about a battery from a no-load voltage meaurement. Even a totally shagged battery will show ~12.5V under 0 load, so long as there are no internal shorts. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmm... I agree on you there. But then I have a silly question right back at ya! :salesman: I have been charging my battery again. And this time after standing over the night (about 8h) It drops down to 12,71-12,74V somewhere. It's not 12,8V or higher. Will I still bee able to perform the charging tests on the bike, to se wether or not it?s the battery or the R/R??? I mean.. will I be able to get some reliable measur results? Or do I really need to do a serious battery test at my local motorcycle dealer before. Sorry for using this topic to ask under...but it's not complely :wheel: I think... And to the french guy... my english sux as well... but I'm still one happy biker!!! :goofy: //KaliZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 KaliZ, I agree with the comments from FRE and Kerplode - it would appear that your battery is relatively normal. Superloadedcat, Did you get any further with your diagnosis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Hmm... I agree on you there. But then I have a silly question right back at ya! I have been charging my battery again. And this time after standing over the night (about 8h) It drops down to 12,71-12,74V somewhere. It's not 12,8V or higher. Will I still bee able to perform the charging tests on the bike, to se wether or not it?s the battery or the R/R??? I mean.. will I be able to get some reliable measur results? Or do I really need to do a serious battery test at my local motorcycle dealer before. I'm not sure that I understand the problem well enough to give an unequivocal answer. Probably 8 hours should be more than sufficient to charge the battery fully, assuming that you were using a charger intended for charging motorcycle batteries and not a trickle charger. While under charge, the emf should be approximately 14.5 volts, the exact reading depending on the state of charge and the charger. When the charger is disconnected, the emf should drop, eventually dropping to 12.6 volts as the surface charge dissipates. If you were to turn on the headlights immediately after disconnecting the charger and leave the lights on for a minute or so, the surface charge should be dissipated and then, with the lights off, the emf should be 12.6 volts unless the battery is in really bad condition in which case it could be lower. A really thorough and accurate test of the battery condition would require equipment which you probably don't have. It is possible for a bad battery to have a no-load emf of 12.6 volts but because of high internal resistance, still be unable to start the engine. If you measure the battery voltage while operating the starter, it would be a good idea to connect the voltmeter directly to the battery terminals without letting the probes touch the cables. That way you will not get miselading results if there is excessive voltage drop between the terminals and the cables. I realize that that is not convenient to do and may well require two people. Before giving up on the battery, check all the connections, especially where the battery cables connect to the battery. If they are loose or corroded, there could be a considerable voltage drop there which could make the battery appear bad when it isn't. Although there are many places where there could be a loose connection, loose connections where the cables connect to the battery are by far the most common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Well... went to my local motorcycle dealer today. It shows up that I have a friend that?s working there, so he did a batterycheck for free. :thumbsup: He connected the battery to a little gadget. Pusched a button and after a few seconds (not long time at all) A lot of lamps indicated that the battery was good. Hmmm can't stop wondering if it's possible to do a fast check like this, GREAT gadget in that case. According to this test it's now time for me to eliminate the battery from my why-my-battery-dies-list. Tomorrow I will start measuring all the values on the bike...according to the tutorial that is posted. Wish me luck! //KaliZ Edit: Sorry for the hijack by the way!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superloadedcat Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 KaliZ,Superloadedcat, Did you get any further with your diagnosis? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well i went and bought a new battery. i asked the guy if he charged it and he said yeah, but i notice that the box had a charge date on it from a few weeks back... i wonder if he sold me a used battery? i measured the voltage after i put the new one in and it was in the 12v range. i dont remember exactly. well i took the bike out for an hour or so, made a few stops/starts, and let the fan run for no more than 5 minutes. on the way home it died a block from my house. luckily i was able to bump start it and get it home. i checked the voltage again and it was in the mid 11's. so i went out and bought a battery tender jr., and ill start testing the r/r tomarrow to see if it is even charging at all........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?art West-VL. Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 A did a test on 3 car battery's, they all had the same voltage afterwards, all being 12.6V after a week of just sitting in the garage. I'm sure any 12V lead-acid-battery will hold 12.6V after being charged. Not forever of course, will drop slowly when not used / trickle charged. Battery test is easy, just put a headlight on it, measure the voltage for about 5 minutes, voltage should be quite stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superloadedcat Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 So i hooked up my multimeter to my new battery and took it for a spin. Basically this is what happens, at idle i get a normal battery voltage. BUT as my RPMs increase, the voltage starts going WAY off scale as in 65v, 145v, 300v etc...... and actually goes off the scale of my meter... Does this represent a failed regulator? Im afraid to damage any electricals, so i stopped riding and ordered an electrosport r/r off ebay for about $130 after tax and overnight shipping. we will see in a day or two. i really hope i dont need a stator too or else i might not make it to laguna seca.. :< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 ...BUT as my RPMs increase, the voltage starts going WAY off scale as in 65v, 145v, 300v etc...... and actually goes off the scale of my meter... Does this represent a failed regulator? ... Sorry, but yes. These voltages are developed by the alternator. Sounds like they are not regulated (shorted to ground) at all and the voltage is being pumped directly into your system. You can see why a damaged R/R will fry a battery from those numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon28 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I would invest in a battery tender plus by (deltram?). Anyways I have one and it works great. They only cost about $35 and they are a solid investment. They also have a 10year warranty. Try this even if you buy a new battery. It keeps the battery at its peak. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superloadedcat Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 got a new battery at mission motorsports for under $60. also picked up a battery tender jr at pep boys for about $30. same problem. did all the tests just now and alternator looks fine. still no charging voltage. also, to add to my ride around meter testing, it did seem to get worse (extreme voltages) after about 20 mins, and heating up. ordered an electrosport r/r and it should arrive in a day or two... will post results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 How many miles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superloadedcat Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 im at about 24,000 miles............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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