Fed up with R/R

[Guest remy]

I replaced my R/R with a new one, from Electrosport (could be my first mistake), and the bike is still killing the battery. I put a brand new battery in it, so it wasn't that. I've read about other people on here having problems with the Elctrosport R/R's. It's only putting out about 11.5 volts. I can only ride it for about 15 minutes, then it starts to get ridiculously hot, and sucks the battery dry. I put a volt meter on, and I can watch it as I ride, and it just drops like a rock after about 15 minutes, and eventually the bike stops running. But once it cools, the bike can be bumpstarted, and ridden again for a little while, (this is how I had to get home, had to stop 3 times). I soldered all the connections, so I know it's not that. The grounds are all clean. I don't really know where else to go. Do you guys recommend just going to an OEM Honda R/R? These electrosport POS definitely aren't working. I've read all the R/R threads on here already, so any new ideas would be very helpful. Thanks in advance.

[Guest Cajunvfr]

Go buy an Yamaha R1 R/R for a 2000 model. It is big robust and I haven't had any troubles, also it is damn cheap as compared to the

Honda part.

[Guest]

Just a thought, have you checked the stator? My hunch is that the stator is the problem. If you aren't getting power, you'll just drain the battery. If the stator is outputting on two of the three phases, it will still get hot.

I tried two different R/R's thinking they were the problem. Turns out it was the stator. It was only outputting on two of the three windings. That made the R/R put out way less than 12V. Pull the connector that goes from the R/R to the battery and measure the voltage coming off it. If it's 0, your R/R is shot, if it's somewhere in between 3V and 11V, your stator might be toast. Check for continuity between each stator winding and ground, and between each stator winding. IIRC, you should get 0.1-1.0 Ohms between each winding, and NO continuity to ground.

The stator is pretty easy to replace.

Let me know what you find out. Good luck!

[Guest]

stator

[Guest Cajunvfr]

Yeah!!!, what they said. Sorry I left out the main part.

Yes check the stator before anything else. The ElectroSport trouble tree is real good, follow it and let us know what your readings are.

[Guest]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not too familiar with the VFR yet, only had it a few months. The stator wires are the 3 yellow wires, correct? B/C during my initial troubleshooting, I checked these wires, and only 2 of the three were putting anything out. But I'm going to go through the fault finding tree and doublecheck everything. Thanks again.

[Guest Viffed]

Yes, the yellow wires are the stator wires. The aforementioned values for resistance are what you want to look for with the bike off and the R/R disconnected from the stator. If all three readings aren't reasonably the same or any are shorted, chances are good your stator is toast.

Don't get a new stator from Electrex, IIRC they havent's sorted out the problem of their replacement stators being the wrong size (physically smaller and less output) than the OEM Honda parts.

The OEM stator for your bike is part #31120-MBG-D01 and is $153 from Service Honda.

Chris

[Guest]

I went ahead and took the stator out. To me, this doesn't look right. It was only putting out voltage on 2 of the 3 phases. Looks like I'm going to be ordering a new stator.

[Guest]

I went ahead and took the stator out. To me, this doesn't look right. It was only putting out voltage on 2 of the 3 phases. Looks like I'm going to be ordering a new stator

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old stator

[Misspent Youth]

Yes, the yellow wires are the stator wires.  The aforementioned values for resistance are what you want to look for with the bike off and the R/R disconnected from the stator.  If all three readings aren't reasonably the same or any are shorted, chances are good your stator is toast.

Don't get a new stator from Electrex, IIRC they havent's sorted out the problem of their replacement stators being the wrong size (physically smaller and less output) than the OEM Honda parts.

The OEM stator for your bike is part #31120-MBG-D01 and is $153 from Service Honda.

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I heard from JoeW that the correct part for the '98 is the 003, not the D01, which is for a later model, so double check before ordering/installing.

Also, just fyi, I checked the vac coming off my stator at 5K and got 59.6 on all three legs so I conclude my stator is OK (static checks passed, as well). On to grounds.

[Guest]

Does anyone have a definitive answer for which is the correct stator for a 1998 VFR? I'm gonna do some more searching around, but I need to clear this up. Thanks.

[Guest]

Yup, that stator is fried! That's about what mine looked like too.

Mine put out voltage on all three pairs, but was shorting to ground. The net effect of that short is that the wires had fused together, so that when the pairs were measured they were in spec, and when the resistance was measured it was also in spec. The test that showed the failure was the short to ground.

As for the part number, I remember hearing that for the 6th gen there was an updated stator. If this one fits a 5th gen as well, then perhaps it's the one to get if it has more output than the 5th gen one. OTOH, more output means more that the R/R has to dissipate, so maybe it's not such a good idea afterall! :-(

Glad you found the problem! I bought a replacement off ebay a few months back.

[Misspent Youth]

Yup, that stator is fried! That's about what mine looked like too.

Mine put out voltage on all three pairs, but was shorting to ground. The net effect of that short is that the wires had fused together, so that when the pairs were measured they were in spec, and when the resistance was measured it was also in spec. The test that showed the failure was the short to ground.

As for the part number, I remember hearing that for the 6th gen there was an updated stator. If this one fits a 5th gen as well, then perhaps it's the one to get if it has more output than the 5th gen one. OTOH, more output means more that the R/R has to dissipate, so maybe it's not such a good idea afterall! :-(

Glad you found the problem! I bought a replacement off ebay a few months back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If there's a short, do you know if it shows every time? Or just when the stator is in a particular position?

[HispanicSlammer]

Yea Electosport used to be called Electotex and they cant seem to get it right concerning the VFR, they gave my freind bill the wrong stator and he couldnt get any more than 11.5 volts out of it, luckly another member came through for him with an OEM unit for his VTEC. Electrosport/Electotex does not have a good reputaion perhaps thats why they changed thier name? I dont know but Bills wasn't the only case when getting an improper stator.

On a side note after owning an XR for a few months I have learned how to rewire my own stator - albeit a much smaller stator I just rewound my XR stator for better headlight output. Its a dual phase stator One for the spark and one for the lights. It was easy actually

[BOBINOTTAWA]

.

On a side note after owning an XR for a few months I have learned how to rewire my own stator - albeit a much smaller stator I just rewound my XR stator for better headlight output.  Its a dual phase stator One for the spark and one for the lights.  It was easy actually

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, you are opening the door with a future how-to, claiming how easy it is. :beer:

I know, I know, I am welcome for suggesting that.

[Guest]

I finally went to the source, and called Service Honda, to get the right part # stator. The correct one for a '98 is 31120-MBG-003, in case anyone needs this in the future. The online microfiche shows 2 P/N's, of course. The guy on the phone said the -D01 is for 2002. Unfortunately, they don't ship overseas, so I have to have it mailed to family, then forwarded on to me. Looks like the viffer is gonna be AWP for awhile. (That's AWaiting Parts, for the non-Air Force types).

[Guest Viffed]

Eh, I thought I had the right number in my notes. Oh well. That pic definately shows a fried one though!

Chris

[Misspent Youth]

I heard from JoeW that the correct part for the '98 is the 003, not the D01, which is for a later model, so double check before ordering/installing.

Also, just fyi, I checked the vac coming off my stator at 5K and got 59.6 on all three legs so I conclude my stator is OK (static checks passed, as well).  On to grounds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Checked/cleaned grounds and moved harness ground wires to same ground as neg batt terminal. Cleaned checked all wiring for continuity and resistance (none), both positive and negative. Pulled starter relay and cleaned all contacts. Stator checks for resistance (.2 ohm) and no (apparent) grounding, while putting out 59.6 volts ac on all three legs. I put on a new r/r (OEM upgraded part) and it passes all static checks (sees battery voltage, etc.). Even checked the r/r diodes using the Electrex fault chart. Everything, and I mean everything, checks out per the chart and the factory manual, and still my 5k volts are 13.48 (popping to high 13s at lover rpm, but not holding) w/high beam on, warm, etc.

Battery was new in October and has 600 miles on the OLD r/r that never charged more than the mid-13s and was falling to upper 12s when I replaced it. Battery holds excellent static charge (13+) and no non-start, clock reset issues, etc. By the way, the OLD r/r passed all static/dynamic tests, including diode check, as well.

I sure hate to spend the money on a new stator when the old one seems to check out, especially when I've read elsewhere that others have replaced EVERYTHING in the system, including the stator, only to end up with the same charging voltage as before the new equipment.

Any ideas for checks/tests I haven't done before I spend/waste more money/time?

[dr.toto]

My 5th gen is about the same. I don't have any advice for you. I'm still riding mine.

[navyhelodrvr]

If everything works and your battery is staying charged I don't think you have a prob. Ride, ride, ride...

[Misspent Youth]

If everything works and your battery is staying charged I don't think you have a prob. Ride, ride, ride...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish I could. Unfortunately, maintenance free batteries need 14 volts to recharge. Given the voltage reduction as rpms increase, and the grounds being good, it seems the problem is voltage drop caused by under-sized wiring throughout the charging system. I'm in the process of running supplemental wiring from r/r to battery and ground. Aprilias have a similar problem and the fix is the same.

Incidentally, I suspect a byproduct of the wiring's inability to properly feed the battery results in the voltage seeking a positive ground back through the r/r, which is what is causing our r/rs to get hot and melt. Fans only cure problem partially, and temporarily, from what I gather.

[Misspent Youth]

Update for those who care:

Previous - 1 year old battery (but well-maintained since purchased new in Oct, holds charge well, etc.), plus NEW Honda r/r running through '98 harness and w/stator checked (continuity, ground, etc, and putting out 59.6 vac on all three) was only clocking 13.48 v at 5k. Actually put out 14 v at 1.5k-2k, then went down as rpm rose. Manual calls for a minimum of 14.2 v at 5k, so something is wrong.

Note - went through everything mentioned in any book re: checking charging system and found clutch diode no continuity either way, so order another (not arrived). Don't know if that impacts anything re: charging, though it does eliminate continuity to the starter relay ground.

New - Having read the VFR wiring harness charging wires were too small/long and that some have had success bypassing the stock harness and using larger gauge wires to tie the r/r directly to the battery, I did that. I tied both r/r output wires together w/10 gauge wire and ran that wire to the battery post via new 30 amp inline fuse holder. I tied the r/r grounds together and ran that 10 gauge wire to the negative battery ground on the brake block where the stock negative cable location was. Note that I didn't cut any r/r wire, rather, I exposed 1/4" of wire on each output wire and wrapped the take-off wires around the exposed portion, soldered/covered, etc. Note - I eliminated the factory charging wire from the harness and postive battery cable.

Results - Better, but still not at factory minimum or 14.2 v at 5 k. Using my C-Volt meter tied to the battery posts, it now shows 14.09-14.11 v at 3.5-6k, bright on or off. Rear plastic was off for the ride (so not representative of actual riding condition, but r/r was hardly warm at all (again, it was out in the wind).

Assuming my r/r, stator, battery, grounds and hookup are good, I'd be interested to hear any ideas as to why this bike can't hit even the 14.2 v minimum stated in the manual, even with a direct-wire to the battery.

I found it significant that it picked up .6 volt just from the harness wiring change. That result suggests the stock charging wiring is, indeed, undersized and/or overlength, thereby backing up some watts into the poor r/r, making it hot and causing it to fail prematurely.

Since all roads in the manuals lead back to the r/r, my next change (after installing a good clutch diode and retesting) is to secure a used r/r from a CBR 600 or similar bike and install it with the same direct-to-battery setup discussed above.

[Guest speedball30]

I run a C-volt on my bike after my RR went on me half way to the middle of nowhere.

At 5k and above it reads 14.3-14.5, any higher and you'll boil the battery. At regular idle it reads 12.5 -12.8. I am not convinced you have a problem, however, if your going to grab a used RR the GSXR RR's bolt holes match up with the VFR, you just have to solder the wiring harness from your old RR onto the GSXR's. Mine is still perfect.

Good luck.

[Misspent Youth]

I run a C-volt on my bike after my RR went on me half way to the middle of nowhere.

At 5k and above it reads 14.3-14.5, any higher and you'll boil the battery. At regular idle it reads 12.5 -12.8. I am not convinced you have a problem, however, if your going to grab a used RR the GSXR RR's bolt holes match up with the VFR, you just have to solder the wiring harness from your old RR onto the GSXR's. Mine is still perfect.

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks. I can live with it at 14.1 if that's the best I can do, but I'd like to try for your 14.3 (actually, my Radio Shack multimeter reads a solid half-volt below the C-Volt, so I don't know if I've even got the 14.1).

As for the GXSR - which one? 600? 750? 1000? Does it matter?

[Guest]

I finally got in my new stator, and all is well now. I also put on a new OEM honda R/R, instead of the electrosport POS. I also soldered all the connections. My volt readings are right where they are supposed to be. I'm one happy camper now. The only thing I did that was a little different, was I grounded the R/R straight to the battery. I soldered an 8 gauge cable onto the 2 green wires, and ran it to the battery. Does anyone else do this, or see a problem with it? I just wanted to make sure it had a good, solid ground. So far, so good. But I just want to say thanks to all for their input, and recommendations. You guys are awesome.