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Baileyrock

Vtec electrical problems info post

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OK guys, something of interest for those who bypassed the ground green wire around the blue connector because the latter can't be opened (fused plastic inner bits), you may be uncomfortable (as I was) knowing that any routine maintenance that requires this blue connector to be opened will require dealing with this stuck connector. The local Honda tech here in Montreal found a clever way to undo the blue box halves: there are 2 clips on the front side of the connection (towards the front of the bike) held in place by flexible plastic bits (in 'S' shape on picture, provided by a member here, thanks!), open these up and the individual connections will be exposed, undo the ground wire connection and a few others, use a flat screwdriver to push the terminal out of the socket (may require a bit of force) and voila. Put in generous amounts of grease, use the bypass and enjoy the peace of mind of knowing all connectors can be opened, as they should be, should need be.

gallery_11212_3027_224993.jpg

pic blue box copy.jpg

Interestingly, Honda acknowledges that this connection must be checked during any inspection (tech call) so they are aware of the problem. For any Montreal owners experiencing this problem, see Richard at Excel Honda, he's an ace.

Regards,

Bruckner

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I didn't look closely at current wire size but from the pic it looks like no more than 12 gauge max. In fact, the whole time I have been doing the wiring thing on my bike I haven't seen a wire larger than 12 gauge with the exception of the main ground and starter wires (cables actually).

And while doing some research on fuse sizes and wiring I found this website...

www.the12volt.com - targeted at auto electrical installers (ie stereo, alarms etc).

Anyway I found two little jems:

ONE

Realize that the "absolute ground" of the electrical system is not the battery negative terminal or the vehicle chassis, but is the case of the alternator itself. This is why perhaps the most important cable among the Big 3 is the engine ground strap, as this is what connects the alternator ground to the vehicle's chassis. Be certain the resistance between the alternator case (the engine block assuming the alternator is properly bolted to the engine) and the battery negative is minimized. (Thanks to the12volt for pointing this out!)

- makes me wonder if the Reg/Rec would be considered the alternator on a bike since the stator has no ground - I think?. Anyone???

and TWO

This is an old GM Technical Service Bulletin, but it should help anyone wanting to verify that their amp has a good ground:

METHOD OF VERIFYING ' GOOD ELECTRICAL SYSTEM GROUND ' #87-8-139 - (04/07/1987)

VEHICLES AFFECTED: ALL MODELS

When diagnosing electronic systems for incorrect operation, it is often necessary to verify that ground circuits are good. This article is intended to clarify what is meant by the term "good ground" and the preferred tools and methods for verifying it.

A "good ground" is a ground circuit that has a resistance of zero OHMS.

Ground circuit resistance can be measured in OHMS using a digital volt OHM meter (DVOM). When using a DVOM, it must be set on the 200 OHM scale to obtain an accurate measure of the circuit resistance. Many meters have both a 200 OHM scale and a 200 K scale. The 200 K scale will not measure zero OHMS accurately. If you are not sure how the meter is to be set for the 200 OHM scale, refer to the meter operating instructions for proper settings. If the meter is an autoranging or self-scaling meter, read the meter carefully to be sure which scale it is setting itself to.

Before measuring resistance in any circuit, the resistance of the meter should be measured by touching the leads together. A meter with a good battery and leads in good condition will read less than .2 OHMS usually zero. If the leads measure anything more, an accurate measure of the circuit resistance may not be possible.

Always remember - resistance cannot be measured accurately on a "live" circuit, All current flow through a circuit must be stopped by disconnecting its power source before measuring resistance.

Ground circuit resistance can also be checked by measuring the voltage drop across the circuit with a DVOM set on, the 2 volt scale. The voltage drop will be zero across a "good ground" circuit.

Remember, fully understand a meter's functions before using it!

To add to this, a good ground for car audio applications will have a return resistance reading of 1/2 ohm or less. I have yet to have a return reading of 0 ohms. If a ground return reading cannot be made to get below 1/2 ohm by means of the "BIG 3", then it is adviseable to ground direct to the battery. Electricity is an algebra equation, what you do to one side you must do to the other. Pay as much attention to the ground wire as you do the power wire.

The BIG 3 is a great place to start for a good ground, however it is the assumed proper method of grounding. What we are talking about here is the older and wiser 4th brother to the BIG 3 (the BIG 4).

So a proper ground wire will be as follows.

- clean of residue and paint.

- secure.

- have a resistance return of 1/2 ohm or less.

- be of adequate guage to carry the return as compared to the power wire.

To simplify the measuring of the return, use your meter as described. Disconnect the - battery terminal and disconnect the ground wire from you amp. If your dmm probes are not long enough, you will need to create a jumper extension out of some primary wire or whatever wire you have handy. Measure this wire for any resistance reading and subtract it from the total.

Many installers are not aware of this nor practice this method. It takes time and time = $ so don't get all pissy if you had a professional install done and this was not checked. A poor ground connection or high resistance reading may seem trivial under no load, but once you are pounding your nice new amp and it is drawing large amounts of current, this little reading has become a monster reading that has caused many an amp to fail for no apparent reason. It may be noticeable as a extremely hot running amplifier in a short time period, poor output levels or diminishing levels and of course a blown power supply or output section in the amplifier.

While the original article was written for the years gone by, it still is applicable to the newer generation of vehicles. A good ground is not about the amount or size of the metal in the return to the battery but about the resistance through it. Todays vehicles are a combination of metals, spot welds, glued together unibody panels and isolated chassis components. The return through these components is where the resistance reading comes into question and this is what we need people to understand, why the BIG 4 needs to be done if the BIG 3 does not solve the problem.

___________________________________________

Rob @ Forbidden Audio Ltd.

CFB Comox, BC, Canada

Oh - and according to these guys...

Power & Ground Cable Specs

Cable Size/Wire Gauge = Current Capacity/Amperage (amps)

2 = 225 amps

4 = 150 amps

8 = 100 amps

10 = 60 amps

12 = 40 amps

14 = 25 amps

16 = 15 amps

I'm sure that the little stock "red wire" that burns up is no bigger than 14 gauge (protected :beer: by a 30 amp fuse!). No wonder that sucker gets toasted.

Edited by talus

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My turn now. I just checked my 30A and it's getting worse looking as is the short section of red/white wire.

Obvious I need to make the change now, but with all the missing pics and data and what appears to my "un-educated electrical" brain, there seems to be differing ways of doing the fix so now I'm totally confused :goofy:

Ken's ex. on pg 1, Jeremy's explanation on pg 6 and Tinyminds on pg 7 I realize are all achieving the same fix but seem somewhat different in their methods??????

What I get is that we are essentially replacing the red wire coming from battery +, the 30 fuse holder, and here's the part that I'm unclear on....the red/white wire that has a connector in line. Are we replacing the entire red/white wire connector and all(and if not...why not) or just a section of it?

If BR or any one can help out with some pics that show exactly what's kept and what is removed, or some very simple verbage that my non-electrical brain can follow it would be much appreciated. Specific part #'s etc. would be great if anyone still has that info.

Much thanks,

Craig

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My turn now. I just checked my 30A and it's getting worse looking as is the short section of red/white wire.

Obvious I need to make the change now, but with all the missing pics and data and what appears to my "un-educated electrical" brain, there seems to be differing ways of doing the fix so now I'm totally confused :goofy:

Ken's ex. on pg 1, Jeremy's explanation on pg 6 and Tinyminds on pg 7 I realize are all achieving the same fix but seem somewhat different in their methods??????

What I get is that we are essentially replacing the red wire coming from battery +, the 30 fuse holder, and here's the part that I'm unclear on....the red/white wire that has a connector in line. Are we replacing the entire red/white wire connector and all(and if not...why not) or just a section of it?

If BR or any one can help out with some pics that show exactly what's kept and what is removed, or some very simple verbage that my non-electrical brain can follow it would be much appreciated. Specific part #'s etc. would be great if anyone still has that info.

Much thanks,

Craig

sounds like you are confusing 2 different fixes. this is the 30 amp fix post:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...7&hl=30+amp

and this is the r/r sensor fix:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...c=34762&hl=

the first one fixes a wire going to the starter that is carrying too much current for its size

the second one insures your r/r is getting an accurate read on the voltage hitting your system so it doesn't overcharge and blow electronics.

hope that helped.

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OK, so I went and got some parts(thanks Jeff/Last Chance)........10 gauge wire, shrink wrap and a new fuse holder. I didn't notice til I got home but the wires coming out of the new fuse holder are 12 gauge....will this be OK?

So, I guess what I'll be doing, again thanks to Jeff's help, is unhooking and removing the battery......cutting the large red wire leading to the OEM fuse holder at the OEM fuse holder, as well as cutting the red/white wire below the small connector(i.e. at the end farthest away from the OEM fuse holder)............splice/solder one side of the new fuse holder's wire to the large red OEM wire..........and the other wire from the new fuse holder will be spliced/soldered to the red/white wire minus the connector/smaller gauge OEM red/white wire.

So, I'm essentially getting rid of the OEM fuse holder and the OEM small connector/small gauge red/white wire(the one that seems to be causing all the problems).

So, does this sound right and am I OK with the new fuse holder's wire's being 12 gauge?

Thanks guys,

Craig

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OK, so I went and got some parts(thanks Jeff/Last Chance)........10 gauge wire, shrink wrap and a new fuse holder. I didn't notice til I got home but the wires coming out of the new fuse holder are 12 gauge....will this be OK?

So, I guess what I'll be doing, again thanks to Jeff's help, is unhooking and removing the battery......cutting the large red wire leading to the OEM fuse holder at the OEM fuse holder, as well as cutting the red/white wire below the small connector(i.e. at the end farthest away from the OEM fuse holder)............splice/solder one side of the new fuse holder's wire to the large red OEM wire..........and the other wire from the new fuse holder will be spliced/soldered to the red/white wire minus the connector/smaller gauge OEM red/white wire.

So, I'm essentially getting rid of the OEM fuse holder and the OEM small connector/small gauge red/white wire(the one that seems to be causing all the problems).

So, does this sound right and am I OK with the new fuse holder's wire's being 12 gauge?

Thanks guys,

Craig

Sounds good - 12 Gauge will be fine. I posted a how-to on this subject - rolling everyones ideas into one big article here... "Electrical Upgrade - How To With Pics"

Edited by talus

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ok ive double checked my 30a fuse and its looking toasty and the wire is brownish.

ive been reading as much as i can and think this is something i can do rather easily and id rather not buy the harness thats being offered.

but i highley suggest anyone who doesnt know this stuff enough buy it as it makes this issue alot easier to deal with.

so my 2 issues are this:

1.i need to replace the fuse holder and the wires leading into it.

fix= http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29737

2.fix the sensor wire thats causing the system to overcharge in the first place.

fix= http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34762

am i off base here or will doing these 2 things fix my issue as long as no other damage is found?

i admit im a bit confused as to why the fuse wires are overheating.

is it directly related to the R/R not getting a good signal from the sensor wire?

should i do just the fuse fix only or do both?

while looing at tightwads harness im seeing stuff that doesnt seem to match up with these 2 fixs.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads...3273_326816.jpg

can someone tell me what the black plug at the top left of the pic goes too? everything else follows the fixs im reffering to tho.

Edited by Deathstar13

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My initial fix, prior to developing the harness currently being offered, was to run a fused, relayed wire from the battery to the sensor wire going to the RR. I simply removed it from the plug, using a jewelers screwdrive(any small thing screwdriver works of course) and then used a female terminal to connect. Taped over the terminal so it wouldn't short out on anything and I was good to go. I also replaced the short piece of wire in the 30 amp fuse assembly with a 12 gauge wire and soldered the connection.

This steadied my voltage at 14.37 at 5k rpm, or 14.32 with high beams on. I was still worried about overloading the system, which is when I developed the harness. This brought the voltages to 14.45 at 5K rpm all the time.

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tightwad just dont answer my pm,it will save you from saying stuff 2x.i appoligise for the confusion as you answered this so fast i didnt even need to send the pm. smile.gif

jeremy- i take it i should pull the black wire out of its harness and tap it to the battery with a fuse and ill be good to go?

i just cant leave it connected in the harness and splice into it without a relay.

i seen the blue connector ground wire fix somewhere in all this reading so i know what your reffering too.

i think its in this thread so ill backtrack and find it.

found it: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...st&p=402525

this one?

also any connectors i use should i dab dielectric grease on them? im guessing i should to stop corrosion.

Edited by Deathstar13

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Easiest way to the monitor wire fix is to remove the wire from the connector on the R/R side with a small screw driver, then use an insulated female quick disconnect to connect to your fused wire from the battery.

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i seen the blue connector ground wire fix somewhere in all this reading so i know what your reffering too.

i think its in this thread so ill backtrack and find it.

found it: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...st&p=402525

this one?

Yep, that is it. I used some of those crimp on quick splices into the wire on each side of the connector and grounded it...

blueconnectorground.JPG

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wow,what a long day.

i just finished up the bike and test rode it to check for issues.

cost was $17 in parts alone so who ever buys the harness from TIGHTWAD is getting a great deal.

it wasnt hard work,just nerve racking a bit knowing i could be screwing up a perfectly good running bike as mine was just starting to show issues on the wire turning brown but it ran perfect.

i added all 12 guage wireing and 12 guage wired fuses.

a 30a on the fuse replacement and a 10a mini fuse on the RR sensor wire.

also i did the grounding mod,even tho im not even sure what it does but ive learned to not second guess people when it was so easy.

can you tell me why it needs done?

i could definetly seeing a shop charging $500 to do this work and mabey not even fix it correctly.

again ty guys for all the help and advice.

Edited by Deathstar13

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I know there are a lot of posts on this topic, but my experience was a little different and I wanted to throw it out for consideration. Over the past couple of months my 02 had developed some really serious drivability issues. Once she got over about 180deg she would start missing at constant throttle settings. In the mildest form it felt like the lean surge problem, and in its worst form you could hear individual cylinders dropping in and out and it felt like it was going to die. Moving the throttle a good bit would cause everything to pick back up but it was very annoying, and sometimes scary if you were in a corner. The problem didn’t exhibit itself constantly. Some times she would run smooth as butter for a couple of days. I had been watching the 30A B fuse for a while and it was starting to show the typical wiring insulation discoloration and signs of heat so I did one of the recommended repairs. This lowered the fuse wire temp, but it was still getting warm and the drivability problem was still there. I checked the main and front harness ground wires next – no signs of heat or discoloration, the connectors separated easily etcetera, so I didn’t implement any of the repairs suggested. I did apply some super duper Volvo electrical connector grease given to me by a friend to the blue and gray connectors. (Seems modern drive by wire Volvos occasionally develop electrical gremlins and the fix is to put this stuff on the connectors). Still no change. So, I got out the service manual and started to work my way through the wiring diagram and learned the following:

The B fuse (the one that melts) does not supply working circuits in the front harness. The power passes through the front harness to be switched by the control relays (fuel cut and I think one other), but no working circuits. This means the grounds from the front harness are not really associated with the B fuse, and the fact that both melt is a coincidence, not a cause and effect relationship. So when we fix the front grounding problem we are fixing problems related to accessory circuits and the A fuse.

This led me to start looking at the main harness. It appears the B fuse supplies all of the engine management circuits – ignition coils, injectors, TPS, O2s, etcetera. Loss of voltage in these circuits would logically seem to cause drivability problems, so I popped of the right fairing and pulled all of the engine management connectors apart. Nothing appeared to be wrong, no visible corrosion or anything, but I checked all of the female connectors and attempted to tighten any that looked to be too open, applied magical Volvo grease, and plugged everything back together. Viola! Drivability problem gone – smooth as glass at any steady throttle setting from 3500rpm up and now the B fuse is cool to the touch. Why did the problem seem heat sensitive? The only thing I can determine is a couple of the right side electrical connectors lay against the upper radiator hose, and once the coolant started to flow the connectors heated up and raised the resistance in already marginal connections.

The message here – when you’re working on your B fuse problems, check those engine management harness connectors!

I apologize for the long post, but I hope it helps someone else.

Quick Update. Two weeks, 1000+ miles, ambient temps from 47 - 94, and coolant temps from 170 - 223, still smooth. No surging, no missing, and the B fuse is staying cool. I've owned this bike for two years and 17,000 miles (had less than 2k on it when I bought it) and it has never ran this well at steady state cruise speeds. Now it's no not just fun to ride, but a pleasure to ride!! fing02.gif

Edited by Baileyrock
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Greetings. I've been lurking here for several years. Picking up tips and advice on the numerous problems that came along with my '02 VFR. I've become more familiar with electrical systems than I ever thought possible. Thanks for all the help.

Now though, I have something to add to the mix. Good news in fact.

I just got off the phone with my Honda service manager. He informed me that Honda has just issued a "stop selling" order on VFRs and that a recall for the electrical problems is immanent. He didn't have any details on what the recall will replace. He just was informed it was coming. So, after years of -investigating-, we may have a real solution soon.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Cheers

Yes, it's here. See "recall" post from 8-31-07.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...c=35937&hl=

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This problem does in fact affect 06's, mine is sitting at Dreyer Honda here in Indianapolis with these EXACT problems. Honda customer service has called me every day since I called them to give me the same update, but at least they called. My dealer has told me that they dont think Tech has a fix and cant find the reason for the problem. They asked the dealer for up close pics of everything and they still haven't called back yet {as of today}. The service manager seems to think that Honda is just going to replace the entire wiring harness because they are just scratching their heads. Honda itself cant just patch up bad spots like we have found here I guess, they will have to make a whole new harness I am informed. Tomorrow will be 2 weeks that my bike has been sitting there and my Jeep is costing me $25 a day in gas just to get to work and home. I did ask the dealer and made clear with them that they need to STOP right now if Honda is going to hose me. I dont have the money to pay them $80/hr. to fix what I think I could have at home with Tightwads fix.. BTW Tightwad, where is my harness I am so eagerly awaiting for, I went ahead and got the fuse box too. Dreyer Honda seems to be doing me right for all of you guys out there with the same problems if you are in Indy, they are nice people. (Been calling everyday).

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Its now Monday the 24th and I still dont have my bike back and Honda Tech doesn't seem to know how to fix the damn thing. Last I heard Sat. from the dealership was that "Honda" was deciding whether or not they were gonna warranty it since I added heated grips. Its freakin August, how many times this summer do you think I used the damn things. This is BS, the grips didn't F it up, Honda did when they "redesigned" the harness. Its funny how mine did the exact same things that the 02-05's did but they are in question about whether or not its a recall deal. You can bet your ass though that if that thing causes me to have an accident, because of the thing shutting off midride or in the middle of a corner, I'll file a suit so fast they'll wish they had just fixed the thing. As far as I know yet, they dont know how to fix it. I hope the guys at Honda are reading this because this may be the last Honda I buy. This was my first Honda streetbike but I have owned I think 8 Honda dirtbikes since I was about 7. Sorry for the rant guys but I am pissed.

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It melted the red and white wire and the fuse holder was brown next to the battery. The blue connector is fine, but the fuel pump would only work intermittently. Sometimes it would just crank over and over and not start, and then the next time it would fire right up. The dealer said they found the fuel pump relay upside down and that the rubber protective boot had water in it. My bike gets ridden every day, rain or shine, I've even been caught in snow coming home from work twice. I ordered the wire fix and fuse block from Tinyminds, but I want Honda to step up and fix what is wrong. This is my daily driver, 100+ miles a day, and I need it back. I talked to customer service tonight and they assured me that a descision would be made tomorrow as to what will happen now.

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i have an update to this thread concerning the 3 fix's i did on my 04.

today it wouldnt start,no fuel pump whine coming from teh tank so i at least knew what was being affected.

of course i went back and inspected all the wiring i had done for loose connections or more damage done.

after jiggling the wires it fired up,but more jiggling would couse it to die.

problem was the fuse holder on the 30A line i replaced was not holding the blade fuse securly.

after some tighting of the crimps all is fine again.

im just posting this as a reminder to people that even tho we fixed one problem it does give room for more issues to arrise.

anyhow if anyone is wondering the 30A fuse and the line its on are what feeds power to the fuel pump.

i could also see why people with a weak battery and possibly corroded and burnt 30A lines having issues with the bike running erradicaly.

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Some folks don't trust the dealer, or Honda's, (what I'm pretty sure will be the minimal), fix. Folks here had this figured out LONG before Honda owned up.

Except he took the bike to the dealer to get the harness fixed the first time (despite having the information available to fix it himself the first time as I recall.) Might as well just bite it and take it in for the recall.

I'll admit that I am probably not taking mine in. I did the 30A fuse cure three years ago and did the blue connector ground bypass and monitor wire fix this summer. I am curious about some of these guys finding burned connectors elsewhere and wondering if maybe I don't want that recall harness. Sure would like to put it in myself though.

Honda "fixed" my wiring harness last April with new parts, same part #s as the originals! :beer:

I found out for sure today. The recall parts are different #s. Honda is going to do the recall on my bike, parts are on order. They have already spent over $1300 on this problem with my machine alone. My dealer has been super, and has had plenty of practice with this recall with my buddies' bikes.

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Idle is set at about 900 RPM, is that correct?

No, it should be 1200-1500 when warmed up.

Set it closer to 1400-1500.

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I just put a deposit down on an 2007 w/ABS.

Didn't see any mention of these problems in the 2007 model year.

Has this been sorted out at the OEM?

Thanks,

Mike

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I just put a deposit down on an 2007 w/ABS.

Didn't see any mention of these problems in the 2007 model year.

Has this been sorted out at the OEM?

Thanks,

Mike

Either sorted or too new to see many issues....most Honda Electrical issues require some time before they show their head.

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Ok, Im a newbie here and purchased a used 2006 VFR800 ABS from a used motorcycle shop last saturday. Drove it 145 miles home, Sunday drove it to church and on the way home the head lights, gauges, and taillight quit working. Although the bike continued to run! It has a little over 7000 miles on it! And after seeing all these wiring issues and me not being to mechanically inclined I think im going to take it back. After reading these posts im not sure if this problem will ever go away? The problem also is that the dealer I bought it from is 145 miles away. They told me bring it back and we will fix it no problem which is good! but far away if this happens again! What do you guys think? if you had the oppratunity to get something different would you?

Thanks, Kelly

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Ok, Im a newbie here and purchased a used 2006 VFR800 ABS from a used motorcycle shop last saturday. Drove it 145 miles home, Sunday drove it to church and on the way home the head lights, gauges, and taillight quit working. Although the bike continued to run! It has a little over 7000 miles on it! And after seeing all these wiring issues and me not being to mechanically inclined I think im going to take it back. After reading these posts im not sure if this problem will ever go away? The problem also is that the dealer I bought it from is 145 miles away. They told me bring it back and we will fix it no problem which is good! but far away if this happens again! What do you guys think? if you had the oppratunity to get something different would you?

Thanks, Kelly

Hey Kelly, welcome to VFRD! :musik20:

Not sure if the 06 up were as affected as the earlier Vtec's with this issue, but I would just check your fuses first. If it is a blown fuse, it could be a simple case of a harness wire that has rubbed through the insulation on a single wire and shorting on something metal. This can happen from either the poor re-installation by a Dealer tech after a service or a drop repair.

I can't remember if the ABS model has the dues box in the same place as the standard model,which is under the right dash access panel.

If you don't have a shop manual you can download one right here in VFRD download section.

:laugh:

BR

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Ok, Im a newbie here and purchased a used 2006 VFR800 ABS from a used motorcycle shop last saturday. Drove it 145 miles home, Sunday drove it to church and on the way home the head lights, gauges, and taillight quit working. Although the bike continued to run! It has a little over 7000 miles on it! And after seeing all these wiring issues and me not being to mechanically inclined I think im going to take it back. After reading these posts im not sure if this problem will ever go away? The problem also is that the dealer I bought it from is 145 miles away. They told me bring it back and we will fix it no problem which is good! but far away if this happens again! What do you guys think? if you had the oppratunity to get something different would you?

Thanks, Kelly

Hey Kelly, welcome to VFRD! :goofy:

Not sure if the 06 up were as affected as the earlier Vtec's with this issue, but I would just check your fuses first. If it is a blown fuse, it could be a simple case of a harness wire that has rubbed through the insulation on a single wire and shorting on something metal. This can happen from either the poor re-installation by a Dealer tech after a service or a drop repair.

I can't remember if the ABS model has the dues box in the same place as the standard model,which is under the right dash access panel.

If you don't have a shop manual you can download one right here in VFRD download section.

:goofy:

BR

Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction. I had no owners manuel so didnt even know where the fuse box was. I downloaded the manuel and found out my bike has two fuse pannels on left and right side, luckly I toke your advise and started on the right once I figured out how to take fairing pannel cover off. Replaced the 10 amp fuse and ssshes up and working again, so my test ride for tomorrow is going to honda and getting some spare 10 amp fuses. Thanks for your help!

Kelly

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