Is this amount of hub play normal?

[Divilus]

Noticed it when I was changing the chain (I'll change the sprockets in a bit just needed the chain cos it was on its last legs ((there was no more adjusting and it was already out of spec at that point)) but the shop I'm getting my parts from didn't have the sprockets in stock)

[Terry]

That looks pretty normal to me; there are rubber dampers in the cush drive and over time they get packed down and loose their elasticity, allowing a bit more slop in the driveline. If funds allow, you could replace them but getting access requires some disassembly (big axle nut needs to be removed, mucho torque!) so unless you had other plans (e.g. greasing the axle bearings or cleaning the eccentric) I'd leave that one for another day. 

[Divilus]

Rubber dampers but it feels like metal contact (no give after reaching the end + metal sounding clunks) could they be old to the point of being this brittle? And if so is that an issue or we ball if the wheel is turning smoothly still

 

Cleaning the eccentric does sound like a good idea as when I was adjusting the old chain the crunch of dirt immediately put it on my radar.

 

Torquing the nut might be a problem though, my wrench goes to 110nm but the yuge socket is another story

 

Overall I'm trying to get this bike totally cleaned up mechanically as in 2027 I want to take it for a big spin around europe so ideally all things mechanical are squared away before spring of next year

 

Next big job is checking the valve clearance but I need to get some feeler gauges and a micrometer + shims? No idea if that's a part number or what considering the different sizes, plus tools and stuff for lapping the valve seats if they're dirty + might as well if I'm down there 

 

I got this bike at 74000km and I'm approaching 80k now and have no idea what's been done to it so I want to at least take a look at everything myself

(Picture attached of the gunk I cleaned out from the driving sprocket this morning (this was after I sweeped it out real quick when examining if I was able to replace the chain myself so the original state the previous owner passed it off to me in was even worse) still needs more cleaning but I ran out of time before work this morning (I have to drive to work on it) but I'll give it another go around when the new sprockets come on)

 

Also actually in the (pre-state) picture there's a rubber ring that sat between the shaft and the sprocket, it's fairly cooked at this point but when I looked at the parts diagram for the transmission there wasn't anything between the main seal and sprocket (did I miss it or is this someone put on that isn't actually necessary?)

[Terry]

You sound a bit like me; if there's no maintenance history, I go all-in and check the basics including the valve clearances. Years ago I bought a 7.48mm HotCams shim kit which had 5 of every size, as I have consumed those I have replenished as needed, and you can buy shims very cheaply from Aliexpress. I have checked those by micrometer and they are spot-on. 

 

The shim-under-bucket system is very robust and normally only changes very slowly, as the valves recede into the head the clearances reduce and you need thinner shims to correct that. Pulling the cams out on a gear-driven bike is very simple, I work on one head at a time and mark the gears with a paint pen before I start so I can drop them back into the exact same spot which keeps the timing correct (but easily checked from the gear markings). You will want a decent torque wrench for the cam covers and the cam saddle bolts. 

 

I prefer an imperial set of feelers as the clearances round up nicely; intakes are 6 thou +/- 1 thou, and exhausts 10 thou +/-1 thou. You just need a little maths (1 thou = 0.025mm) to figure out any shims. All the shims I've removed have had visible thickness markings so you may not need a micrometer (or digital calliper). Setting the clearances to the upper end makes sense.

 

Not sure about your random rubber ring but you can get rubber-backed sprockets that are meant to be quieter, maybe that was left over from the last one?

[Divilus]

11 hours ago, Terry said:

You sound a bit like me; if there's no maintenance history, I go all-in and check the basics including the valve clearances. 

It's also fun to go in and do stuff so if there's a reason to spend time in there and learn/fix something I don't think twice

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

I bought a 7.48mm HotCams shim kit which had 5 of every size

So they're 7.48mm wide (vfr spec I take it) with varying levels of thickness depending on what you need for your current state?

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

I have checked those by micrometer and they are spot-on. 

I kinda wanna get one just to have the peace of mind of seeing that myself on each one too

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

The shim-under-bucket system is very robust and normally only changes very slowly, as the valves recede into the head the clearances reduce and you need thinner shims to correct that. 

The valves receding is a result of them wearing out + seat wearing out and thus being lifted further up by the spring right?

What is the likelihood of carbon deposits on that mating surface counteracting that rise and making them go lower instead?

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

I work on one head at a time and mark the gears with a paint pen before I start so I can drop them back into the exact same spot which keeps the timing correct

Haven't cracked it open yet so it's hard to imagine exactly where the mark would go but I assume it's on the gear mating surface between whatever you're taking out and what's staying in

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

You will want a decent torque wrench for the cam covers and the cam saddle bolts. 

I heard this was decent so I got it when I started my Virago 535 restoration, good enough for the job?

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

I prefer an imperial set of feelers as the clearances round up nicely

Any specific recommendations or will any old imperial set within that thickness range do

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

 (1 thou = 0.025mm)

So it's metric but with a funny new name x)

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

All the shims I've removed have had visible thickness markings so you may not need a micrometer (or digital calliper).

Yeah it's the "may" that is steering me towards getting one, considering I want to open up a workshop one day I'll definitely need it later on anyway

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

Setting the clearances to the upper end makes sense.

This is assuming the valves go into the seat so it leaves you more wear until they go out of spec again right? Aka if the spec is 6+/-1 for the intake aka 5-7, then set them to 7 and have 2 thou more legroom?

 

11 hours ago, Terry said:

Not sure about your random rubber ring but you can get rubber-backed sprockets that are meant to be quieter, maybe that was left over from the last one?

Sounds like it's not necessary so it's going in the bin

 

 

Thanks for your response on this, I'll leave diving into the hub until I get the big nut just to clean the eccentric at least, I'll check on the state of the rubbers when I'm in there and order new ones if they look and feel horrid since they don't seem too expensive (30 bucks for 5)

 

The valves will wait until I can get the tools and shims and I assume new gaskets are in order too; now that I think about it to remove the potential carbon deposits I'd have to open up the piston side of the head which probably also has a gasket of sorts + the paste for the spinnytappy manoeuvre.

I'll have a good look in the service manual and a refresher on a thread on it I saw in here before, before I dive in with ordering and wrenching on this.

 

[Terry]

Yes shims are a standard diameter of 7.48mm across many bikes and brands, the only exception I have come across was for my VTR1000F which used a bigger diameter.

 

OEM shims come in finer 0.025mm gradations (1 thou), whereas aftermarket shims are in 0.05mm (2 thou) increments, so you may not have too much choice when it comes to getting into spec. For example if your intakes are at 4 thou and should be between 5 and 7, then dropping 2 thou (0.05mm) on a shim will get to 6 (in spec), but you won't be able to get to 7 unless you had an OEM shim. It's been a while since I reshimmed my 5th gen but shims around 1.65-2.10mm come to mind.

 

I have both digital callipers and and a micrometer but honestly the callipers are a lot more idiot proof and perfect for shims. 

 

That torque wrench ( I own the same one, and its bigger brother) is too manly for the torque needed in the head which is just 10 or 12 N-m. I have a 1/4" drive torque wrench which covers that range nicel (I think it does 6-25 or something). Be especially careful torquing the cam cover bolts as if you over do those, you snap the casting in the head. 

 

Any old imperial feeler gauge set will do; this isn't NASA.

 

I wouldn't even consider taking the head off unless there was low compression. Then that level of investigation would be warranted. 

 

The picture shows the rear head on my 5th gen, and the paint mark on the gear teeth and adjacent saddle. But there are really good marks on the sides of the gears that make lining it all up easy enough with the crank in the correct position. Always rotate the engine by hand after reassembly and don't force anything, that is a good check for mechanical happiness, along with an extra check on the timing marks. 

[Divilus]

20 hours ago, Terry said:

OEM shims come in finer 0.025mm gradations (1 thou), whereas aftermarket shims are in 0.05mm (2 thou) increments, so you may not have too much choice when it comes to getting into spec.

Is there much of a difference in price between the two?

 

20 hours ago, Terry said:

I have both digital callipers and and a micrometer but honestly the callipers are a lot more idiot proof and perfect for shims.

Micrometer is cooler though x)

 

20 hours ago, Terry said:

That torque wrench ( I own the same one, and its bigger brother) is too manly for the torque needed in the head which is just 10 or 12 N-m.

Ah fair thought it was the opposite, a lower range torque wrench is already on the shopping list so 

 

20 hours ago, Terry said:

Be especially careful torquing the cam cover bolts as if you over do those, you snap the casting in the head. 

Noted

 

20 hours ago, Terry said:

Any old imperial feeler gauge set will do; this isn't NASA.

Bet

 

20 hours ago, Terry said:

I wouldn't even consider taking the head off unless there was low compression. Then that level of investigation would be warranted. 

Yeah it's running fine as it is so it should be fine, I suppose if I have the covers off and the clearance is way outta wack in the loose direction then the further dive is warranted

 

20 hours ago, Terry said:

The picture shows the rear head on my 5th gen, and the paint mark on the gear teeth and adjacent saddle.

Ah so you mark, take out, check shims and stuff and put it back in without moving the crankshaft?

 

20 hours ago, Terry said:

But there are really good marks on the sides of the gears that make lining it all up easy enough with the crank in the correct position.

Aye the paint is just another guide eh

 

20 hours ago, Terry said:

Always rotate the engine by hand after reassembly and don't force anything, that is a good check for mechanical happiness, along with an extra check on the timing marks.

That's fair yeah

[Terry]

I just priced up a single OEM shim at USD9.48 each. Or you can buy a complete set 141 pieces, 3 of each thickness, for USD64 from Aliexpress.

2 hours ago, Divilus said:

Ah so you mark, take out, check shims and stuff and put it back in without moving the crankshaft?

That's how I do it.

[Divilus]

On 3/3/2026 at 6:55 PM, Terry said:

I just priced up a single OEM shim at USD9.48 each. Or you can buy a complete set 141 pieces, 3 of each thickness, for USD64 from Aliexpress.

That's how I do it.

Do be quite the difference!