And so for my next trick...

[Skids]

Enjoy 👏

[eastbowl2]

Amazing!  Loved reading the story and hope you get lots of fun miles.

[Terry]

One more evening of work; the preload adjuster didn't seem to be doing a whole lot on the shock so I assumed (correctly) that it had the same issue as the ST1300, namely a loss of oil in the preload circuit. My shock is about as crusty as the rest of the bike was, so the banjo bolt and even the preload bracket bolt took a bit of shifting, but soon revealed the expected issue; I don't know where the oil goes but there was a bit of a shortage.

 

If you've not done this, you disconnect the banjo keeping the hose end elevated, take the preload adjuster and empty the old oil, then you back the adjuster knob fully out and then (through the banjo fitting) push the piston back down fully with a suitable scredriver or other narrow object. Then fill the adjuster fully (I used fork oil) allowing air bubbles to escape, screw the banjo back in tight, then wind the adjuster in fully, the  wind it back out so any bubbles can come back to the adjuster. Unscrew that, refill again, and then refit the banjo with as little spillage as possible.

 

Now my adjuster starts moving the shock cylinder after a single turn, and winding on the recommended 11 clicks took some effort as the shock cylinder started compressing the spring again for the first time in ages. I can feel a big difference in the ride height now! I suspect this may help the turn in quite a bit. The forecast for tomorrow morning is nice so wish me luck!

 

The 1200 may be another bike where a shim over the shock upper mount might be a good idea to raise the back end a little higher.

[Terry]

So...300km later, we had a great ride down to Raglan and back on my favourite back road. Earl performed famously well, and the restored rear ride height was apparent from the off with much better low-speed manners. I had a bit of a fiddle with the front rebound adjusters and ended up back at the stock setting (1.5 turns out) and didn't mess with the rear at all. The road I took is a great tester of suspension and cornering confidence, and while I think the front end could be better on the bumpy bits, none of it was bad and we had a fairly swift run, including a few brake work-outs (they're great!). Unfortunately Earl is still identifying as a chain-drive bike and throwing some oil onto the rear rim. 

[Terry]

I found my oil leak; the big seal around the wheel hub had a torn lip, no idea how or why but at least I know what to fix. The old seal came out easily without any more disassembly than removing the muffler, wheel, calliper and the brake hub then popping the circlip out and prising the old seal up. Parts ordered from Webike so should see these in 7-10 days time. I will spend a bit of time polishing corrosion off the wheel hub, not sure if it is the sealing area but better safe than sorry.

[Terry]

Or did I find the oil leak? Earl has been sitting quietly in the Mancave with the FD draining into a bucket, but there was also some fluid leakage on the floor, which had come from the joint between the bevel casing and the swing arm. There is of course another big oil seal in there (see handy photo), unfortunately this one will need more serious surgery as the shaft must be disconnected at the motor end and the bevel casing unbolted. Not completely new territory as I did something similar to my ST1100, but I hadn't expected to be solving a shaft oil leak on this one. The FD case shows witness marks on the retaining nuts and some pry marks too, so someone has been here before, probably from one of Earl's earlier crashes. Ho hum, more parts to order...

[Lorne]

2 hours ago, Terry said:

also some fluid leakage on the floor, which had come from the joint between the bevel casing and the swing arm

this one is fighting you tooth & nail, Terry. But I suspect you'll prevail.

[Terry]

I love your confidence Lorne.

 

I cracked on with removing the final drive case. The manual helpfully just says to open the drive boot (at the motor end) to access a circlip that holds the prop shaft to the output shaft and slide that back...and that circlip will not release at all. I may need circlip pliers that expand a bit more than the ones that I have, or figure out some other way to spread the circlip and get it off the output shaft groove. Unfortunately it sits inside the final drive end with just a small cutout for access as you fight with the rubber boot. Suggestions to the usual address please! I am wondering if (in following the general themes of corrosion) the drive splines are actually a bit rusted together and the circlip isnt the only problem. So have given the area a good dose of penetrating oil.

 

 

On the other hand, the drive shaft was able to be removed from the bevel case with a little wedge encouragement so that FD is completely off; loads of oil drained as this was removed from the shaft tunnel/seal area (which should be dry), so there's my smoking gun at least.

I will keep persisting with the little bastard circlip as I think I need to be able to push the drive shaft end back into the spline on the bevel case with a bit of encouragement, if not I will need to wedge the shaft to stop it sliding forwards when I remount the FD. 

[MBrane]

I recommend Knipex snap ring pliers. I sprung for a full set some years ago when I tired of fighting with cheapies or improvising. It has been money well spent.

[Terry]

1 hour ago, MBrane said:

I recommend Knipex snap ring pliers. I sprung for a full set some years ago when I tired of fighting with cheapies or improvising. It has been money well spent.

Thanks for the suggestion MBrane. The frustrating thing is that I believe I am spreading the circlip ends fully but I just can't get the clip to recess into the groove on the inside of the prop shaft and fully out of the groove on the output shaft, with all of the splines that are there. I think the circlip may be distorted somehow, doesn't seem to have a lot of spring left either. Or maybe corrosion. 

 

I decided to leave it alone for a day as it was making me pretty frustrated. I am hopeful that I can proceed to refit the final drive without disconnecting this circlip. The prop shaft pushes into the final drive with a spring clip that expands into a groove inside the splined cup, and it is just a push fit. If I can hold the prop shaft from sliding back up the tunnel this should be do-able, I am thinking of wrapping a hose clip around the prop-shaft as an anchor point to work with. Along the prop-shaft is a CV joint which feels pretty springy; the manual cautions not to yank too hard to avoid tearing the CV boot.

 

For those who wonder what the heck I am talking about I present a nice image from eBay; the right circle shows the ends of the circlip on the motor end, the left circle is the spring clip on the spline that meets the pinion gear at the wheel end. If only it was all so easy to access on the bike! The shiny silver section next to the left green circle is just accessible with the bevel casing removed. 

 

 

[MBrane]

The only shaftie I've ever been into was my girl's old BMW R1150RT. It was pretty simple as long as you know to heat the final drive carrier bolts to 275℉ to soften the threadlocker on disassembly. They are aluminum so simply using ugga-dugga to get them off would be bad.

[Terry]

2 hours ago, MBrane said:

The only shaftie I've ever been into was my girl's old BMW R1150RT. It was pretty simple as long as you know to heat the final drive carrier bolts to 275℉ to soften the threadlocker on disassembly. They are aluminum so simply using ugga-dugga to get them off would be bad.

I bought myself some bigger circlip pliers today, but suspect I'll have the same result. The offending circlip sits in a gap inside the prop shaft and outside the output shaft. It's sole function is to prevent the shaft sliding back off the output shaft. I'm 95% confient that I can reassemble the bike without dismantling this bit. When I worked on my ST1100, the shaft was basically two sections with a universal joint, trapped at both ends so aside from a small lengthways movement with suspension travel, it stayed put, and with the "pumpkin" removed, the shaft could just be slid right out. The 1200 uses a very different geometry  as it is in three sections with a universal and a CV joint along the shaft so the driven and driving ends of the prop shaft need to be more firmly fixed where they mate with the splined couplings at each end.

 

My new oil seals left Japan today so hopefully I will see them by early next week. 

[Terry]

The circlip continued to defy me, in fact just to truly thumb its nose at me, one of the wings broke off as soon as I waved my new circlip pliers at it. So that one won't be coming out any time soon, not a train smash as it is still stubbornly doing its job of keeping the output shaft and prop shaft joined. I suspect if I truly need to git it oot one day, it will be possible to drag it around the outside of the propshaft and pull it right out of the groove.

 

My Plan B of using a hoseclip to hold the other end of the propshaft in place while the bevel case was refitted worked beautifully, and the reassembly of that with new seals has gone smoothly, so (hopefully) I can put this whole episode in the leak-free rear-view mirror now. I have no idea why the shaft seal had been leaking before but it has new seals now and the sealing surfaces are very shiny and smooth (and greased).

 

Earl is now back on his wheels and I can turn my atention elsewhere. I have had my new OEM key cut and it works so much better in the lock than the old one, I just need to program the HISS system to recognise the chip but I have done that before and have a lead that I built for the job on my ST1300. I'm waiting on a centrestand to arrive, and also a new throttle tube so I can give back the VFR800 loaner. I did buy a throttle tube on Aliexpress (for $8!) and that would have been OK (aside from a slick-feeling grip rubber) but I wanted to fit a Hotgrip, and when the rubber grip came off the inner part was fluted and made of pretty soft material; even with the flutes trimmed off, it took a lot of force to get into the Hotgrip and got distorted, and then chucked into the bin. A new OEM part is now on its way for a little more money. 

 

Using Webike in Japan as a source of OEM spares has been really excellent; their prices are less than Partzilla (my prevous benchmark but frustratingly not shipping to NZ post COVID) and the transit time for parts has been less than 7 days. The only downside with Webike is their website; I can't use my Windows PC as the formatting is impossible to decipher, but my iPad or iPhone do a decent job. Webike also act as a portal for used parts in Japan and I have got some decent bits for not much money; the left fairing panel was USD75, its not perfect but fits really well with the lived-in look of the rest of the bike. 

 

We just had the best weekend for riding, 22C, blue skies, light winds, spring growth on the trees, so It is just as well I have motorcycles in reserve...the MT10 came out for a spin on Saturday, and then the VFR enjoyed a romp around my favourite twisty road loop on Sunday.

[Terry]

My Zieger-branded centrestand arrived today and wasn’t too hard to fit, even kept all the skin on my knuckles when I put the springs on! Not too much effort to lift up, but it  wanted to stay up on my painted floor, not quite enough friction to roll over the drop point but some roughening up on a real road will fix that. I have been missing a decent vertical stand.

[Lorne]

13 hours ago, Terry said:

My Zieger-branded centrestand arrived today and wasn’t too hard to fit, even kept all the skin on my knuckles

 

I love having a centre stand on my VFRs, and wished Honda equipped the VTR1000 with 'em.

However my stand has gotten scabby after 100K km and 16 years of riding. But it sure looks like the rear exhaust pipes block access to the bolts. I suppose I'll have to refinish it in place - but not till next spring and warmer temps.

[Terry]

I bought a set of race-stands when I had the VTR1000, and have kept using them with the MT-10, very handy bits of gear but no real use if you want to do any work on the rear suspension. 

 

You can get a really good "decent from 3 feet away" finish on all of the black bits on the VFR (e.g. sidestand, centrestand, front subframe, lower triple clamp) using a small brush and a pot of semigloss enamel. Just degrease and scrub away as much surface crud as you can first. Follow me for more handy tips. 

[Terry]

Last night I decided to switch out the worn Road 5 front tyre for a tasty new Bridgestone T33; I've got T33s on my 6th gen and they seem to be a great wear/grip/feel compromise, and they are a little cheaper than the Road 6. 

 

I will give Michelin credit for making a tyre that is easy to mount/dismount, it took only a couple of minutes to get it off, the T33 usues a stiffer carcass that wants to hang onto the beads, but was not too challenging; I use a couple of nice levers and some hard plastic rim protectors, plus soapy water and a bit of perspiration. I use a garden spade as my bead breaker, just pretend you are digging into the sidewall and jump on, this has been successful on all but the toughest tyre so far, which was a T32GT on my ST1300; I had to devise a different method for that one. 

 

I was expecting to be able to remove the ugly line of steel balance weights with the new tyre, but I (wisely) left them in place until the new tyre was mounted, and based on the very slow speed on the balance stand, the wheel is near enough to perfect, so the rim itself must be a source of inbalance.

 

Earl is now ready for another decent test ride this weekend but unfortunately the weather gods may have other ideas. 

[Terry]

Somebody upstairs must like VFRs, as this morning has been another beautiful day, although when it got to 26C it was a little warm. Earl and I have a had a great 300km run around the twisty roads.

 

The new front tyre has transformed the steering and while still "on rails", there is now neutral feel and swift turn-in, which is very reassuring and just like my other VFRs. I did a forbidden thing and combined a new Bridgestone front and an old Michelin rear; it didn't explode!

 

I have been adding more rear ride height now the adjuster is working and there's a lot of ground clearance for my feet/pegs now. The 1200's engine is pretty amazing with smooth locomotive drive out of bends that is pretty addictive and has a nice bark when the flap opens at 4k. 

 

I discovered that my new centrestand will make ground contact occasionally but I think that will be self-correcting as it gets a bit chamfered; touchdowns were only on cornering dips.

 

The shaft drive oil leak is banished and the rear wheel no longer looks like there is a chain drive hidden somewhere. However oil is weeping from the left fork seal, something I feared may happen due to the corrosion pits that are on the stanchion. I am going to use some JB Weld and see if I can't smooth those off enough when I fit a new seal.

 

I have received a new front sub-frame from Aliexpress; I can't comment on the fit yet but it certainly looks the business and wasn't expensive. When riding I can see the dash is pushed to the right compared to the forks, and I think the current subframe is bent, but until I do a full strip that won't be certain. 

 

[Terry]

I fitted the new subframe this afternoon, it seems to be a perfect replacement for the OEM part but only cost me US$32! Slightly chunkier where the mirrors bolt on but no fit issue.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003502147870.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.16.18021802LJhFE2

 

I think it is straight now, the bodywork seems to be sitting better, and I found more missing fasteners under the hood; how hard is it to keep these together people? I also put in some LED H7 bulbs (also Aliexpress specials) and just need to check the low beam aim, but the pattern looks decent.

 

And just for gits and shiggles, I also programmed my spare key. This is no big deal for you people of the Trump Empire, but the rest of us have the chipped key/HISS system, and if you lose your last key, you are sh1t out of luck and can never get a new working key without buying a new ECU. There' s good guide on this here website which I followed and had a happy outcome.

[Terry]

As I was riding my 1200 in the weekend, I was thinking what a shame it was that this line of bikes has died out. That engine is certainly a thing of beauty with smooth and powerful running, decent economy, a great gearbox and plenty of character, the heat and airflow management is far ahead of the ST1300 (also known as "the Frying Pan") and the shaft drive is neat (as long as it is not leaking). I know the "X" version was produced, but there was so much more potential in this thing, it would have made a superb tourer (as per the illustration) and I assume there was a more sporty, chain-drive version in the works as well as the output shaft looks like it could convert to chain reasonably easily. Ah, well...

 

I know that I will never get to ride an RC213V or NR750, but I have ridden or owned all of Honda's other V4 bikes at some point. Although the 1200 is considered "7th Gen", it really should be thought of as the last generation of VFR, which is a real shame but they did go out on some sort of high note. Just a shame that they hyped the concept up too much and then delivered a bike that was a bit too middle of the road. Under the plastic, this is one amazing machine. 

[St. Stephen]

37 minutes ago, Terry said:

As I was riding my 1200 in the weekend, I was thinking what a shame it was that this line of bikes has died out. That engine is certainly a thing of beauty with smooth and powerful running, decent economy, a great gearbox and plenty of character, the heat and airflow management is far ahead of the ST1300 (also known as "the Frying Pan") and the shaft drive is neat (as long as it is not leaking). I know the "X" version was produced, but there was so much more potential in this thing, it would have made a superb tourer (as per the illustration) and I assume there was a more sporty, chain-drive version in the works as well as the output shaft looks like it could convert to chain reasonably easily. Ah, well...

 

I know that I will never get to ride an RC213V or NR750, but I have ridden or owned all of Honda's other V4 bikes at some point. Although the 1200 is considered "7th Gen", it really should be thought of as the last generation of VFR, which is a real shame but they did go out on some sort of high note. Just a shame that they hyped the concept up too much and then delivered a bike that was a bit too middle of the road. Under the plastic, this is one amazing machine. 

 

Terry, so cool to read your eval of the 7th gen coming from your very VFR experienced background.

 

It's different, but it is just incredible. I bought it the 1st year and the following seven were great. Looking forward to more reports from you in NZ.

 

[Skids]

14 hours ago, Terry said:

As I was riding my 1200 in the weekend, I was thinking what a shame it was that this line of bikes has died out. That engine is certainly a thing of beauty with smooth and powerful running, decent economy, a great gearbox and plenty of character, the heat and airflow management is far ahead of the ST1300 (also known as "the Frying Pan") and the shaft drive is neat (as long as it is not leaking). I know the "X" version was produced, but there was so much more potential in this thing, it would have made a superb tourer (as per the illustration) and I assume there was a more sporty, chain-drive version in the works as well as the output shaft looks like it could convert to chain reasonably easily. Ah, well...

 

One of the reasons I bought the 'X' is for touring. My VFR1200F is a fantastically sorted motorcycle. Upgraded suspension, a monster of an engine, tuned, gorgeous exhaust, world-stopping brakes etc etc but the riding position is becoming too difficult for my advancing years even though I have fitted Helibars, it is still not easy to spend a day in the saddle so the 'X' was the obvious choice as a replacement. I know the power and rev limit has been reduced but it will still make a fabulous tourer especially with the bigger fuel tank.

[Terry]

3 hours ago, Skids said:

One of the reasons I bought the 'X' is for touring. My VFR1200F is a fantastically sorted motorcycle. Upgraded suspension, a monster of an engine, tuned, gorgeous exhaust, world-stopping brakes etc etc but the riding position is becoming too difficult for my advancing years even though I have fitted Helibars, it is still not easy to spend a day in the saddle so the 'X' was the obvious choice as a replacement. I know the power and rev limit has been reduced but it will still make a fabulous tourer especially with the bigger fuel tank.

I don't think I have revved my 1200 past 8000rpm yet and probably seldom will. Is the power on the X notably toned down at the lower end of the range?

[Skids]

16 minutes ago, Terry said:

I don't think I have revved my 1200 past 8000rpm yet and probably seldom will. Is the power on the X notably toned down at the lower end of the range?

Same torque, less power but the torque curve is reprofiled for more lower down. Red line is around 9k rpm (I'd have to go and check for an accurate figure) but yr right, I don't recall ever finding a road long enough (or balls big enough) to redline the 1200F so it's all a bit academic.

[Terry]

1 hour ago, Skids said:

Same torque, less power but the torque curve is reprofiled for more lower down. Red line is around 9k rpm (I'd have to go and check for an accurate figure) but yr right, I don't recall ever finding a road long enough (or balls big enough) to redline the 1200F so it's all a bit academic.

With a big engine, torque is where it is at, and it gives you the ability to be a bit lazy with gear changes. My 6th gen 800 certainly likes to be kept "on the boil" above 7k which is fun when you are in the mood but it can feel a little flat otherwise.

 

I also have a Yamaha MT-10 and love the character and punch (and a great riding position) but I'm not brave enough to give it full throttle as you are perched on top like an organic speed brake! I did get it remapped which only improved the low end and throttle response, and it is a blast to ride on twisty roads and makes the best sounds (this side of a V4) as long as you don't mind (or care about) the Yamaha "tick".

 

I think Yamaha are missing a sales opportunity with the MT-10 as it just a larger tank, hard luggage mounts and a half fairing away from sport-touring heaven, but it might canabalise sales from the Tracer 9. Personally I think the two engines give two distinct characters.