2007 Another no start issue

[afinepoint]

To get to it my 2007 decided to abruptly not start days ago. It sits under a cover and I start and run the engine periodically. I can't ride it as I'm sorting out a clutch issue. Perhaps more of that later.. 

 

The bike has ALWAYS started within a few cranks. 

 

It just turns over now. I can smell unburned gas at the exhaust. 

 

Gas is in tank. Battery fully charged. Battery voltage present at coil pins. Spark from plug grounded against engine. Fuses behind fairings good. Two large fuses near battery good.  

 

With an ear to the tank when the key is turned to ON I hear a click but nothing more. FI light comes on and goes out in seconds. Low oil and ABS lights remain lit as expected. 

 

Can't find wiring issues. 

 

There is no HISS light or any light for that matter on the Tach. 

 

When I find it I'll check the ECM and Ignition pulse generator

 

43,724 on odometer.  

 

Thoughts? There have been no engine issues until now.

[Terry]

"With an ear to the tank when the key is turned to ON I hear a click but nothing more". No fuel pump priming sound when you turn the key? That is where I would be starting.

[afinepoint]

I thought about it but having the FI light extinguish as it has always done  (KO no cranking) and unburned gas out the exhaust when cranking made me doubtful about the pump being an issue.

 

I never found a fuse labeled pump. 

 

Unfortunately I don't have the means to test the pressure.  

 

 

[Captain 80s]

The pump should "prime" for a second or so EVERY TIME the key is turned on.  That's what he is trying to tell you. 

[Terry]

That is exactly right. You should distinctly hear the pump whine for 2-3 seconds everytime you turn the key on or cycle the kill switch off/on.

 

Start by jumpering power to the pump and see if it is working, then work back through the relays, If the pump is not running then you have no hope of starting a FI bike. 

[FromMaine]

3 hours ago, Terry said:

That is exactly right. You should distinctly hear the pump whine for 2-3 seconds everytime you turn the key on or cycle the kill switch off/on.

 

Start by jumpering power to the pump and see if it is working, then work back through the relays, If the pump is not running then you have no hope of starting a FI bike. 

Exactly what Terry said.

 

My guess would be it's either the fuel cut relay or the pump.

A few years back my 4th Gen died on a very busy Toll road. It was so noisy I never picked up my fuel pump was not priming as I tried to restart the bike and ended up getting towed. I was 200+ miles from home,  luckily at my brother's house when I figured it out. Disconnected the fuel cut relay and jumpered the plug, pump primed and bike started.

I've taken a few pics of my 5th Gen Clymer manual of how to diagnose the pump and relay, I assume it's similar to a sixth Gen, but my 2001 is the newest bike I own, so............

Good luck mate.

 

 

 

[afinepoint]

Thanks guys.  I'll move it to the top of the list.  I guess I was thinking can't hear it clearly  "eh must be primed".   The smell of gas misled me as well.  

 

I was expecting more sound.

 

I got up early for the quiet.  Turning the key to ON there is the distinct click of a relay followed by a muted sound like when you let air out of a tire.  It stops in a couple of seconds.  

 

Was really hoping for a loose wire or blown fuse.   I still need to find the pump fuse.

 

With the tank up I'll test the relay.  I've a new auto circuit tester that needs a job.  With it I can jumper 12V to the pump. 

 

Much appreciate the redirect back to the pump.  That was down the list. 

[Captain 80s]

2 hours ago, afinepoint said:

I got up early for the quiet.  Turning the key to ON there is the distinct click of a relay followed by a muted sound like when you let air out of a tire.  It stops in a couple of seconds. 

 

That sounds like you are describing the prime cycle.  But it has always sounded like a mechanical "whirring" to me, like a servo motor.  Perhaps the pump is getting the prime signal, but there is a physical issue with the pump itself, so it doesn't sound the same.

[afinepoint]

I'd like to do a pressure test however the manual describes Honda's required adapter and sealing washers.  

 

I'll check the relay then look at doing a Fuel flow rate check.  That should tell me if the pump is degraded or OOC.  I figure it's not a filter issue since the problem was sudden. 

 

Again thanks for the responses.  

[afinepoint]

Got back to the VFR.  

 

There is 12V at the pump for 3 seconds with key to ON.  I can still hear a faint sound in the tank which stops when the FI light goes out.

 

Listening with an automotive stethoscope I can't hear a thing.  Absolute silence.  

 

The flow test sounds simple provided my big hands can dislodge the fuel relay to jumper it.  

[afinepoint]

Fuel relay decided to fail so I'll add that to the list.  

[afinepoint]

Jumpered power to pump.  Nothing.  No flow from return line.  Will order pump and relay. 

 

Also FYI 7/32 hose fits the overflow nipple perfectly.  Use a brake hose clamp. 

[afinepoint]

Honda pump $742.

 

Aftermarket $90.  Manufacturer Yezoauto. Amazon.  No reviews.  

 

Thoughts?  I know the cheaper is going to be a roll of the dice but there is that wonderful Amazon 30 day no question return window. 

 

Relay ordered.  

[WDIV]

43 minutes ago, afinepoint said:

Honda pump $742.

 

Aftermarket $90.  Manufacturer Yezoauto. Amazon.  No reviews.  

 

Thoughts?  I know the cheaper is going to be a roll of the dice but there is that wonderful Amazon 30 day no question return window. 

 

Relay ordered.  

Let us know how it goes cus I'm curious about this adventure as this point lol

[afinepoint]

Relay replaced.  It was bad.  A real pain to remove from ECM plate.  FYI pushing up while twisting to the right worked.  There is a frame member mm's above it that will prevent pulling straight off.  Apply gentle force to prevent damaging the rubber protective boot.  

 

The boot would not separate from the relay regardless.  So my old trick of armor all worked like a charm.  Slid  right off.

 

Also it is important to use test equipment for troubleshooting.   The old relay "clicked" just fine when voltage was applied but the secondary side was OOC.  A multi meter proved this.  

 

Also the nomenclature of the new relay differs from the old.  New Honda part # 38501-GN2-014. 

 

Ears, eyes etc are quick and effective but are subjective and easily missed.

 

Flow testing of new pump next. 

[afinepoint]

Flow test SAT.  Minimum required 150 cc/ 10 sec.   Results 720cc/10 sec.  

[afinepoint]

Purring like a 800cc kitten.