fabio222 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 Hi folks, Anyone else not entirely happy with the feel of the brakes on the 6th gen? They work well, they're effective at burning off speed but I can't feel much through the lever. I recently cleaned out the calipers to see if that would help and it has improved it a little. Granted, I didn't take the pistons out and do the seals - the fluid was only flushed and renewed a few months ago so I didn't fancy having to do that again. That said, the pistons were in a good shape, no corrosion, very little dirt, the sliders were a bit sticky so I freed those up, cleaned them, greased them with a smear of lanolin grease (safe for rubber!). Put everything back together and all seemed good. However, riding it to work today, the brakes just didn't "feel" great. They work but my fingers have no idea about what the calliper is actually doing! I had the same issue with my VFR 750 (97) but new callipers (I found brand new calipers online, it was cheaper than doing all of the seals!) sorted that and they feel great now. One other thing I have yet to try is some aftermarket levers. I have a set on my 750, I might swap them over and see how it feels. I'm not gone on doing braided brake lines, there's just so much to buy, and no guarantee. Quote
Member Contributer Thumbs Posted February 5 Member Contributer Posted February 5 What brake lines do you have? Quote
fabio222 Posted February 5 Author Posted February 5 Original rubber lines. I'd like to avoid changing those if at all possible due to the expense and time involved. Quote
Member Contributer Terry Posted February 5 Member Contributer Posted February 5 I pulled my 09 6G's brakes completely apart to clean the seal grooves, reused the seals and polished the pistons, and rebuilt with new pads (Goldfren HH I believe) and they feel fantastic (to me at least). I recently did the same on my 99 5G and they are not nearly as good, might need to re-bleed but I think old rubber lines are the problem with that one. I may also need to clean out the master on my 5th gen. 1 Quote
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted February 6 Member Contributer Posted February 6 On both my 5 and 6 Gen bikes, I have replaced the rubber hoses with HEL steel braided lines and went with CL brake pads (Formerly know as Carbon Lorraine), mostly due to the amount of track riding I was doing on my 5 Gen and liked their performance enough that I also put them on my 6 Gen. They have a more progressive feel and a lot less fading than the EBC HH pads I had on previously. Both bikes also have ASV shorty levers, so I do get a little more finite adjustment to play with lever reach/pull. As for Terry's comment, I too noticed that my 6 Gen front brakes have a bit more feel to them and just slightly a bit more bite than my 5 Gen. It's possible that the 5 piston activation from the front brake lever on the 6 Gen, versus the 4 piston activation on the 5 Gen could be a contributing factor, as both bikes have the same pads and after market rotors. If I were to make an observational comment, I think the brake feel on both bikes improved when I put on the steel braided lines. Another comment on my 5 Gen though, I have not been riding it like I use to, due to several reasons but since I commute on my 6 Gen, I always make sure it's kept in good running condition, so essentially more attention to things like brake pads, oil and coolant levels and most particularly, the clutch and brake fluid. My 5 Gen has kind been sitting for sometime so I have not been paying as much attention to it like my 6 Gen. I recall when I was track riding it, the front brakes felt really good, well, the whole bike in general. Hopefully soon, I'll give the 5 Gen a once over and see if it feels like I remember it. Quote
Member Contributer MBrane Posted February 6 Member Contributer Posted February 6 Unless you wanna do a brake swap i.e. eliminate the DCBS getting rid of the the stock lines is probably the best upgrade you can do bang for buck. I rebuilt my calipers when I did the lines so it was a big improvement. Yeah the initial bleeding is time consuming, but not difficult. Just be prepared to do it right. Vacuum tool, hoses, proper line wrenches, plenty of containers etc. FYI I freakin hate brake fluid even more than coolant or gear oil. Yuk. 1 Quote
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted February 6 Member Contributer Posted February 6 Hello Fabio, Clean the pistons and sliding pins, then chane de fluid and live with it. Yes I have changed brake line over the years (on VFR, VF, RC51 and recently Morini), but found that ethetics was the most improvment. If one feels that VFR's brakes are inadequate (after cleaning) then I'd spend my money of buying fuel and improve braking skills by riding a lot. Throwing money at parts will never improve the underlying skillset. Reading the road, anticipate... YMMV... 1 Quote
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted February 7 Member Contributer Posted February 7 The 6th gen has a lot of brake line with eight hoses vs. the usual three. Changing to stainless braided is a big improvement on feel and modulation. It's big job but I would do it again. Combined brakes on the 6th gen (one of six pistons slaved to rear brake) don't bother me at all. Combined brakes on the 5th gen (two of six pistons slaved to rear brake) really do. Quote
Member Contributer Skids Posted February 7 Member Contributer Posted February 7 I've done 2 braided replacements, 5th and 6th gen and it's by far the biggest improvement in braking feel. Step by step, it's not that difficult. I did it, twice, so it can't be that hard. 1 Quote
gropula Posted February 7 Posted February 7 How about just replacing the front ones? I don't care about the feel in the rear brake or the responsiveness of the combined portion of the breaking. I'd like to have a better feel in the front. I'm thinking of taking off the whole front brake line assembly and having a custom set made. All of the aftermarket sets are 8 hoses + 3 or split fittings at 700€ or something crazy like that. I believe I can have the front portion made in braided steel for much less, like 200 or less. Quote
Member Contributer Thumbs Posted February 7 Member Contributer Posted February 7 HEL do a build a line service, where you can either get them to build it to your specifications or you get a kit of fittings and pre cut lines https://www.helperformance.com/hel-custom-stainless-steel-braided-brake-lines 1 Quote
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted February 7 Member Contributer Posted February 7 DCBS - The gift that keeps on giving. 1 Quote
Member Contributer Terry Posted February 7 Member Contributer Posted February 7 12 hours ago, ShipFixer said: The 6th gen has a lot of brake line with eight hoses vs. the usual three. Changing to stainless braided is a big improvement on feel and modulation. It's big job but I would do it again. Combined brakes on the 6th gen (one of six pistons slaved to rear brake) don't bother me at all. Combined brakes on the 5th gen (two of six pistons slaved to rear brake) really do. I agree that there are many hoses on the 5th and 6th but most of the extras are just associated with the rear pedal. At the front its no different to any other twin disc i.e. hose from master to a splitter, then individual hoses to the callipers. Quote
Member Contributer Ughandi Posted February 8 Member Contributer Posted February 8 One thing that i do to all my machines is swap the BMC with a Nissin Radial 19mm. It did wonders for the brake feel for both my VFR & my Transalp. With braided lines too from HEL, of course! Here's a link to one. https://japan.webike.net/products/21203034.html 6 Quote
Member Contributer jim v Posted February 10 Member Contributer Posted February 10 When I swapped out the 6th gen front end for an RC51 front end one of the results was improved brake feel - obviously overkill if that is your only goal but it was a welcome improvement Quote
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted February 10 Member Contributer Posted February 10 In absolutely un-shocking news, this just in... 3 hours ago, jim v said: When I swapped out the 6th gen front end for an RC51 front end one of the results was improved brake feel I bet it was! Quote
Member Contributer jim v Posted February 11 Member Contributer Posted February 11 20 hours ago, Captain 80s said: In absolutely un-shocking news, this just in... I bet it was! Yes, certainly not shocking re:brake feel. It was a tiny bit shocking how much the entire front end had improved - brake feel, the feel the suspension passed up from the road surface, confidence when initiating a turn, etc etc - it transformed the bike and gave me a lot more confidence in it. Best upgrade I've made Quote
Member Contributer MBrane Posted February 11 Member Contributer Posted February 11 Too bad good used RC51 front ends are no longer plentiful. I've considered doing a front end swap for my day ride/track day bike, but then I'm not trying to shave tenths of a second off my lap times just trying to have fun. Quote
Member Contributer jim v Posted February 11 Member Contributer Posted February 11 12 minutes ago, MBrane said: Too bad good used RC51 front ends are no longer plentiful. I've considered doing a front end swap for my day ride/track day bike, but then I'm not trying to shave tenths of a second off my lap times just trying to have fun. I'm a slow old man, shaving tenths off my lap time is completely meaningless. But the better feel adds confidence and just makes the track day much more enjoyable. In my opinion obviously 1 Quote
fabio222 Posted February 14 Author Posted February 14 Meant to come back to all of your good folks on this... I took the nice milled aftermarket levers off of my VFR 750 and put them on the 800. Man, the levers made all the difference! I'd already cleaned and greased the calipers so I knew they were in good shape and the fluid is fresh in both brake and clutch reservoirs. The new levers allow me to use the clutch far more effectively and the new front brake lever is more adjustable but, more importantly, allows for far more "feel". I can now feel how much brake pressure I am applying. The brakes, as they always were, are plenty powerful for me, but I now know what they are doing too. Simple as that, new levers! By the way, these are the levers. Cheap and cheerful. I've had them for about 7 years now and they've been very nice to use on my RC36. Generic Chinese levers, nothing fancy. Quote
Member Contributer bmart Posted February 14 Member Contributer Posted February 14 Those are the standard Chinese kiddo made ones. I also have them on nearly all of my bikes. I did try an alternative on the '00. 1 Quote
Member Contributer MBrane Posted February 15 Member Contributer Posted February 15 Interesting. I never saw the value in aftermarket levers, but then I have large hands. I do prefer thicker grips as the stock/thinner ones tend to give me hand cramps on long trips. Quote
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted February 15 Member Contributer Posted February 15 I have haven't liked how some aftermarket levers (clutch) seem to screw with feel of the friction zone. Like it moves it or changes the duration, as if the leverage ratio has changed. 1 Quote
Member Contributer MBrane Posted February 15 Member Contributer Posted February 15 My 2 girls have different feel despite having identical specs. When I worked for a trucking company we once got 4 identical spec new trucks, and they all drove/shifted a little different. It's the nature of mechanical things I think. Just like guitars/amps, tools etc. Variances in tolerances. 1 Quote
fabio222 Posted February 19 Author Posted February 19 Happy to report that the love story is continuing! The new levers have really helped me to bond with the bike a little more and have taken away that wooden brake feeling. I have a 30km commute home from the office, it's now dark outside, and its pissing down with rain (has been for days...apparently we've gotten 300% more than our average rainfall for this month so far). To be honest, on evenings like this, I do like the DCBS and the ABS as a comfort blanket. Never have needed it...but it's nice to have it. Quote
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