NEED HELP from one of you VFR wiring guru’s… PLEASE!

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

First off I’m completely new here so I hope I’m going about this correctly and posting in the right spot. Ok so about 2 weeks ago I went and hit the triple nickel in Ohio (state rt 555) and on my way back I came out of the store and my fuel pump wouldn’t prime which has happened in the past but not for years after repairing the burnt fuse connection so I wiggled some wires and said a few prayers and got her to prime again but then it still didn’t want to start. Had to feed it some throttle to get it to do anything and still all it wanted to do was only barely stay running on 1 cylinder and I had to hold about half throttle just to do that. After letting it sit for another 10-15 minutes or so I went back out to try it again and voila magically it started right up and ran perfect for the 200 miles i had to ride to get home. Turned the bike off and restarted it with absolutely no trouble probably 5 or 6 times on the way home but now it hasn’t ran since, just wants to only run on one cylinder now and only with lots of throttle input to get it to do that. Smells kinda flooded like that raw fuel smell afterwards. Pretty sure All my grounds are good, I just went thru the ones under the tank and the harness recall has been done. Switched ECU’s also with no luck…. Any ideas? Seems like it almost has to be wiring related. ANY info/help will be GREATLY appreciated! 

[Grum]

1. Recheck your Main Fuse B 30amp wiring. Assume your Fi light goes Out after every switch On after fuel prime? Assume you have no diagnostic code flashing with the Sidestand Down?

2. Verify you have a good solid 12v coming from the ESR on the Black/White wire when in the fault state.

3. Unplug both ESR and FCR check for any corrosion around the relay pins and sockets.

4. Do a simple check of the Fuel Pressure Regulator. Remove its vacuum hose check for any fuel leaking from the FPR and the hose is dry, a ruptured FPR diaphragm will dump excess fuel into Cylinders 3 and 4, via the vacuum hose. Plugs for 3 and 4 may look wet and fouled.

5. Ensure battery terminals are clean and tight. What is the age and health of the  Battery? 

6. How old are the plugs? Shout it a new set of NGK IMR9B-9H's then reasses.

7. Any doubts about the FCR, swap it with your HI Beam relay.

8. Verify your Fuel Pump green ground wire has Zero Ohms continuity back to the Battery Negative terminal.

9. Verify by measuring continuity back to the Negative terminal that the Main and Sub frame grounds are good, clean and tight. See attached for ground locations.

10. Check you haven't picked up a bad batch of Fuel, or excessive condensation in the tank.

11. If you get it running Verify your Charging Voltage, both hot and cold engine should be around 13.5 to 14.5v idle and 5000rpm.

12. Potential split internal Fuel Pump hose, do the Service Manual flow and pressure tests.

 

13. Good Luck. Think I've said too much!

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

Thanks for the reply grum! Ok so fuse is good. Vfrness installed. Battery is exactly 1 year old this month but has never been drained or had any stresses thrown at it. Charging voltages remain pretty steady around mid 14’s (installed a volt meter after my 3rd stator in 4 years. But granted they have all been cheap Chinese stators from electrosport) just redid the chassis ground that you showed pictured the other day, went to clean bare metal then worked oxguard into the copper strands with fine grit sandpaper. Have good continuity thru all the ground circuits but have yet to verify good solid 12v at relays and injectors but will do today. Will also do the FPR check and pump flow check today along with any other that you have recommended but I’ve forgot to address. I’d like to say thanks once again! Oh and I should probably mention that my fuel pump prime is being intermittent but I can’t really narrow down if it’s the wiring connector that plugs into the starter relay or if it’s my engine stop switch cause I have to wiggle one and then flip the other to get pump to prime sometimes, it has never primed when I mess with just one of them 🤷🏻‍♂️

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

Oh and replaced the plugs with new back in the spring. They have probably got around 6-7k miles on them at this point 

[Grum]

1 hour ago, LILjoeSCARGAP said:

Oh and I should probably mention that my fuel pump prime is being intermittent but I can’t really narrow down if it’s the wiring connector that plugs into the starter relay or if it’s my engine stop switch cause I have to wiggle one and then flip the other to get pump to prime sometimes, it has never primed when I mess with just one of them 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

In the above situation when the Pump doesn't prime, does the Starter Not crank the engine? And what is the Fi Light doing in the above situation? 

 

Make sure the Red wire connection for Main Fuse A 30amp (in the starter relay) is not heat stressed, and there are no burn signs on the plastic, make sure the female spade connector bites firmly onto the starter relay male spade connector. Check the 30amp Fuse that the legs of the fuse are clean and making good contact, again no signs of heat stress. Some Ox-Gard on these connections may also help.

 

Are you working with a Wiring Diagram of your bike? Do you have the Service Manual?

 

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

Fi light does what it’s supposed to, on for a few seconds then off, fuel pump primes as it should, I’ve got a Vfrness installed and everything has just been went thru and hit with contact cleaner then ox-guard. I’m pretty mechanically inclined (rebuilt my first 2-stroke by myself at 12) I’ve rebuilt numerous different bikes and I know the 6th gen pretty thoroughly and have studied the service manual and wiring diagram but this one really has me stumped. I feel like it has to be a wiring issue but I can’t seem to track it down 

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

When the fuel pump wouldn’t prime the starter button would still crank the engine but the fuel pump now primes at every key on. 

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

Failed the fuel pump flow test. 10 seconds results in 4 fl oz. Service manual calls for 5 fl oz. Wouldn’t think that would result in a no start condition tho… thoughts?

[Grum]

5 hours ago, LILjoeSCARGAP said:

Failed the fuel pump flow test. 10 seconds results in 4 fl oz. Service manual calls for 5 fl oz. Wouldn’t think that would result in a no start condition tho… thoughts?

And how about pump pressure? Just incase you have an internal split hose.

Think you also need to establish exactly why your Fuel Pump is now working. Without establishing a reason for its intermittent nature, it's doomed to fail again sometime in the future!

 

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

Not sure on fuel pressure as I don’t have a gauge to check it. Plan on trying to pick one up this evening as for the fuel pump priming being solved I believe it was the engine stop switch because they were since I pulled it apart cleaned it. Everything’s been good.

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

Ok so redid the flow test and it’s now only flowing 3 oz so I guess next step is get a new pump and pray that my bike runs once it’s installed. Any recommendations on exactly what pump I should purchase? Oh and can u PLEASE answer this for me, I checked for spark on the left rear cylinder yesterday with the tank off the bike and there was no spark. Would the fuel pump not being connected cause the ECM to not fire the coils? The fuel cut relay was still jumpered so the ECM was powered on (FI light on for a sec then off like normal) but coils were dead

[Grum]

10 hours ago, LILjoeSCARGAP said:

Ok so redid the flow test and it’s now only flowing 3 oz so I guess next step is get a new pump and pray that my bike runs once it’s installed. Any recommendations on exactly what pump I should purchase? Oh and can u PLEASE answer this for me, I checked for spark on the left rear cylinder yesterday with the tank off the bike and there was no spark. Would the fuel pump not being connected cause the ECM to not fire the coils? The fuel cut relay was still jumpered so the ECM was powered on (FI light on for a sec then off like normal) but coils were dead

 

With the FCR reconnected. Does the Fuel Pump still prime normally at switch on?

 

Try the spark test again with the Sidestand Up, does this make a difference?

The ECM Must see either the Ground signal from the Neutral Switch (via the Neutral/Clutch Diode, then the Green/Red wire at the ECM) OR the Sidestand Switch UP (Green/White wire at the ECM). No Ground detected = Ignition Disabled.

You also want to be sure that the common Ground wires for the Ignition Coils measure GOOD continuity back to the Battery Negative terminal, AND that you measure good battery voltage on the Black/White wires for the coils.

 

The ECM provides the controlling Ground to the relay coil to energise the FCR. There is no feedback to the ECM as to the Fuel Pump being connected, going or not going.

Consistent Fuel Pump ops rely on solid 12v available at the FCR, a properly working FCR with good connections to the relay socket. Good connections of the Brown wire to the Fuel Pump, clean and well connected Fuel Pump connector and the Fuel Pump Ground wire being solidly Grounded to the Battery Negative, along with good continuity of the ECM Brown/Black wire to the FCR. These connections also need to be confirmed as good at the Blue 18P Connector. And obviously a working ECM with confirmed all grounds good back to battery Negative and solld battery volts on its Black/White wire.

 

Steer clear of cheap Chinese made fuel pumps. Reliability with a Fuel Pump is paramount !

[Grum]

On 10/20/2024 at 5:03 AM, LILjoeSCARGAP said:

as for the fuel pump priming being solved I believe it was the engine stop switch because they were since I pulled it apart cleaned it. Everything’s been good.

 

This doesn't fill me with confidence! I doubt the Kill Switch has anything to do with your Fuel Pump being intermittent.

 

If the Kill Switch was faulty.........

1. Your Starter would not operate, as power for the Starter Relay Coil (Yellow/Red wire) is removed.

2. The ESR would remain de-energized. Relay coil +12v on the Black wire is removed.

3. Because the ESR is de-energized the Fi Light would be fully On.

 

Appears from what your saying, you haven't had any of these symptoms!

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

Hey grum i heard something the other day about the coils themselves needing their own dedicated ground and relying on the little hold down bolt that secures them to the valve cover for that. Is there any truth to this?? 
 

If so then at least we will know why the one I was checking wasn’t firing lol

 

You’re a freaking absolute wealth of knowledge bro. Fucking rockstar! 🤘🏻

[Grum]

1 hour ago, LILjoeSCARGAP said:

Hey grum i heard something the other day about the coils themselves needing their own dedicated ground and relying on the little hold down bolt that secures them to the valve cover for that. Is there any truth to this?? 
 

If so then at least we will know why the one I was checking wasn’t firing lol

 

You’re a freaking absolute wealth of knowledge bro. Fucking rockstar! 🤘🏻

 

I'm sure they Don't have a dedicated Ground, have a look at your wiring diagram, the coil grounds are simply combined with a number of various grounds and ending up at the common Frame Ground point. There's no point or need for two grounds. I've never heard of the above suggestion re coil grounds for VFR COP's

 

The bolt hole metal collar is vital to avoid damaging the plastic/epoxy coil body.

 

For info, the attached drawing is a good representation of how the 3 wire COP works on your VFR (note - drawing is for a Suzuki SX4).

 

P.s. Wow Thanks for the compliment.

 

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

Still no luck….

[LILjoeSCARGAP]

Hey Grum sorry to bother u again but one more quick question please!🙏 

 

Ive got continuity to ground at the batt neg terminal on quite a few different wires at the blue 18 pin connector. That’s not normal is it?

[Grum]

On 11/12/2024 at 6:16 AM, LILjoeSCARGAP said:

Hey Grum sorry to bother u again but one more quick question please!🙏 

 

Ive got continuity to ground at the batt neg terminal on quite a few different wires at the blue 18 pin connector. That’s not normal is it?

Blowing Fuses? YES = You have a short!

NOT blowing fuses? Blinkers, Headlights, etc. work normally = You are chasing Moonbeams!

 

Follow the wires you're measuring. If they go to relay coils or globes that have a Ground wire on the other end, there's your answer.

 

For Ground continuity at the Blue 18P connector your main concern is the Green Wire having continuity back to the Negative terminal on BOTH sides of the Blue connector.