Fuel pump relay not receiving voltage + no spark

[Clement357]

Vfr800 2000, 106000km, hardly driven, track, daily driver, road trips.

 

a week ago i went for a ride and stopped at some place to spend the night, when i left in the morning and went to start it it cranked well but didnt start fuel pump didnt started. Put her on the double stand because i was in some light dirt, tried to started it again and it started very good so i went back home. 
 

I though it was a oil switch or something like that because i was parked on a small hill. When i tried to start it again it wouldnt start so i tried to investigate

 

Every fuses are fine

fuel pump does not receive 12v

relay does do click doesnt receive 12v

when i give 12v to fuel pump it primes

wiring ecm to fuel pump relay is fine, 0.4 ohm

(brown/black and black/white)

wiring is not short to ground 

tested bank angle sensor ok

tested bank angle sensor wiring ok

cleaned ecm plugs 

engine stops relay clicks

ecm diagnostic system light stays lit

 

then i looked if it sparked and did not. I have a feeling its the ecm, any more ideas or test that i should do ? I know how rare ecm can malfunction

 

[Grum]

58 minutes ago, Clement357 said:

Every fuses are fine

So you've checked Main Fuse B 30amp? No sign of overheated burnt wiring of the fuse holder? No heat stress of the fuse itself?

59 minutes ago, Clement357 said:

relay does do click doesnt receive 12v

???? Do you measure 12v on the Black/white wires of the FCR with Ignition to On, Kill Switch to RUN?

 

1 hour ago, Clement357 said:

ecm diagnostic system light stays lit

When did you notice this? Was the Fi Light staying On when you first had problems or after you tested the Fuel Pump?

 

1 hour ago, Clement357 said:

when i give 12v to fuel pump it primes

What method did you use to do this?

 

Note - The FCR is only energized at switch On for 2 to 3 secs Prime. Then the ECM turns it on again when cranking and engine running once the ECM receives crank pulses.

[Clement357]

1 hour ago, Grum said:

So you've checked Main Fuse B 30amp? No sign of overheated burnt wiring of the fuse holder? No heat stress of the fuse itself?

???? Do you measure 12v on the Black/white wires of the FCR with Ignition to On, Kill Switch to RUN?

 

When did you notice this? Was the Fi Light staying On when you first had problems or after you tested the Fuel Pump?

 

What method did you use to do this?

 

Note - The FCR is only energized at switch On for 2 to 3 secs Prime. Then the ECM turns it on again when cranking and engine running once the ECM receives crank pulses.

No sign, heat, burnt smell of any wires of the bike, yes main fuse B 30 amp is ok

 

yes, ignition on kill switch on. No voltage to fuel pump relay, by brown black and black white wires.

 

fi light never popped before or during the problem, fi light stays light in diagnostic mode 

 

I unplugged the ecm and the fuel pump relay to not damage parts and plugged 12v positive to green wire in fuel pump relay plug

 

 

 

[Grum]

Sorry! Anybody else want to have a go at sorting the above out?

[Rustty]

18 hours ago, Grum said:

So you've checked Main Fuse B 30amp? No sign of overheated burnt wiring of the fuse holder? No heat stress of the fuse itself?

???? Do you measure 12v on the Black/white wires of the FCR with Ignition to On, Kill Switch to RUN?

 

When did you notice this? Was the Fi Light staying On when you first had problems or after you tested the Fuel Pump?

 

What method did you use to do this?

 

Note - The FCR is only energized at switch On for 2 to 3 secs Prime. Then the ECM turns it on again when cranking and engine running once the ECM receives crank pulses.

I don't wanna be a smart arse but could it be the side stand switch or diode?

I would grab a wiring diagram and check the fuel pump inhibitor/starter circuit.

[Clement357]

that’s not a possibility, because it cranks if side standswitch is faulty it wouldn’t crank, but thanks 

2 hours ago, Rustty said:

I don't wanna be a smart arse but could it be the side stand switch or diode?

I would grab a wiring diagram and check the fuel pump inhibitor/starter circuit.

[Terry]

Does your bike have the HISS security system? My 2004 ST1300 does, and I know that if the HISS chip is not recognised/not present, the bike will appear to be perfectly OK except the fuel pump won't run. The engine will crank over happily but it cannot start.

[Grum]

Another thing to check is if your Ignition Switch has the Pink security wire and the Zener diode. See Attached.

The Pink wire sends 9v to the ECM to enable it. If the ECM sees 12v or 0v it will not enable = No Fuel Pump, No Ignition and from memory Fi Light will be permanently On.

And if while messing with the FCR and running the Fuel Pump etc. If you jumper from the Black/White wire or place any external 12v to the Brown/Black wire, YOU WILL INSTANTLY DESTROY YOUR ECM.

 

"plugged 12v positive to green wire in fuel pump relay plug"  what are you meaning here!!!! There is No Green wire on the FCR !! If you are referring to the fuel pump plug you'd surely get some smoke!

 

"engine stops relay clicks". So does the ESR transfer the 12v on the Black/Pink wire to the Black/White wire? Have you measured this? Have you even confirmed 12v on the Black/Pink wire?

 

Any doubts about either the ESR or FCR, for fault finding, you can use the Hi Beam relay. All 4 relays on your bike are the same type.

 

"fi light never popped before or during the problem, fi light stays light in diagnostic mode" Never heard a comment like this! So do we assume, being in "diagnostic mode" that with the side stand down, the Fi light is not flashing a active trouble code? The most common cause of the Fi light being permanently On (while Not riding) is a loss of power to the ECM.

 

And again, what do you mean by this when asked if you have 12v on the FCR Black/ White wires? "yes, ignition on kill switch on. No voltage to fuel pump relay, by brown black and black white wires" So are you saying YES or No to having 12v on the FCR Black/White wires? So are you aware that the ECM will Only provide a Ground to energise the FCR (as previously explained)for 2 to 3 secs at switch on, then only when cranking and engine running will it re energize the FCR.

 

[Clement357]

On 9/3/2024 at 12:08 AM, Grum said:

Another thing to check is if your Ignition Switch has the Pink security wire and the Zener diode. See Attached.

The Pink wire sends 9v to the ECM to enable it. If the ECM sees 12v or 0v it will not enable = No Fuel Pump, No Ignition and from memory Fi Light will be permanently On.

And if while messing with the FCR and running the Fuel Pump etc. If you jumper from the Black/White wire or place any external 12v to the Brown/Black wire, YOU WILL INSTANTLY DESTROY YOUR ECM.

 

"plugged 12v positive to green wire in fuel pump relay plug"  what are you meaning here!!!! There is No Green wire on the FCR !! If you are referring to the fuel pump plug you'd surely get some smoke!

 

"engine stops relay clicks". So does the ESR transfer the 12v on the Black/Pink wire to the Black/White wire? Have you measured this? Have you even confirmed 12v on the Black/Pink wire?

 

Any doubts about either the ESR or FCR, for fault finding, you can use the Hi Beam relay. All 4 relays on your bike are the same type.

 

"fi light never popped before or during the problem, fi light stays light in diagnostic mode" Never heard a comment like this! So do we assume, being in "diagnostic mode" that with the side stand down, the Fi light is not flashing a active trouble code? The most common cause of the Fi light being permanently On (while Not riding) is a loss of power to the ECM.

 

And again, what do you mean by this when asked if you have 12v on the FCR Black/ White wires? "yes, ignition on kill switch on. No voltage to fuel pump relay, by brown black and black white wires" So are you saying YES or No to having 12v on the FCR Black/White wires? So are you aware that the ECM will Only provide a Ground to energise the FCR (as previously explained)for 2 to 3 secs at switch on, then only when cranking and engine running will it re energize the FCR.

 

I will take a look at this pink wire in the ignition and the diode aswell, thanks. 
 

i meant brown wire ! Sorry my mistake here 

 

no I didn’t check bl/p wire, I will confirm voltage 

no I didn’t had voltage from br/bl and bl/w, and yes I’m aware that voltage only last 3 seconds to prime fuel pump 

 

thanks for your answers this looks promising

 

[Clement357]

On 9/2/2024 at 9:27 PM, Terry said:

Does your bike have the HISS security system? My 2004 ST1300 does, and I know that if the HISS chip is not recognised/not present, the bike will appear to be perfectly OK except the fuel pump won't run. The engine will crank over happily but it cannot start.

I readed a bit about this system and it seems it started in 2002 on the vtec model, I don’t see anything about hiss on my wiring diagram and shop manual 

[Terry]

3 hours ago, Clement357 said:

I readed a bit about this system and it seems it started in 2002 on the vtec model, I don’t see anything about hiss on my wiring diagram and shop manual 

You will know whether the bike has HISS as it will have a blinky red light in the dash and a HISS surround around the ignition key. I know US models don't have it, and pre 2000 don't either, but no idea about your bike in Quebec. I think 2000-onwards European bikes do have it. 

[Clement357]

Well that’s interesting, I « tested » this pink wire in continuity and resistance. But I don’t have it on my wiring diagram ? 

[Clement357]

Also while testing if ecm received ground by the green wire and positive, turned the key on and fuel pump primed, bike started just fine 

[Terry]

Maybe you fixed your problem just by unplugging and replugging the ECM?

[Clement357]

35 minutes ago, Terry said:

Maybe you fixed your problem just by unplugging and replugging the ECM?

No because as soon as I turned it off and try to turn on again it didn’t prime, forgot to mention this. It’s an intermittent problem

[Clement357]

Well, opened my ignition switch to find a lot of corrosion, cleaned all of with with electrical cleaner, tested the diode and it was faulty so I changed it, still doesn’t work.. anyone know if there’s another diode or should I just change the whole thing ? 

[Grum]

On 9/8/2024 at 11:59 AM, Clement357 said:

Well, opened my ignition switch to find a lot of corrosion, cleaned all of with with electrical cleaner, tested the diode and it was faulty so I changed it, still doesn’t work.. anyone know if there’s another diode or should I just change the whole thing ? 

 

 

With all the info provided for you, and the switch sitting in your hand. Is this the best info you can provide?

 

- So, with Ignition to On, what voltage did you measure at the Pink wire terminal Before replacing the Diode?

- What was faulty with the Diode? Open circuit, short circuit, heat sensitive?

- What zener diode did you fit? Part Number? Voltage? Something just lying around? 

- Were you careful about the correct polarity for the diode?

- What voltage did you measure at the Pink wire terminal After replacing the diode?

- Did you bother to properly read what was posted regards the diode?

 

"anyone know if there’s another diode or should I just change the whole thing?" Apart from the security Diode its ONLY a switch, Yeah sure thing, you can throw time and money at a new one OR you can simply measure voltages and continuity based on the wiring diagram Ignition Switch connections to verify if it is or isn't faulty!!

 

Have you even bothered to follow up on this basic Check as previously suggested? 

"engine stops relay clicks". So does the ESR transfer the 12v on the Black/Pink wire to the Black/White wire? Have you measured this? Have you even confirmed 12v on the Black/Pink wire?

 

 

[Gaz66]

On 9/19/2024 at 3:25 AM, Grum said:

 

With all the info provided for you, and the switch sitting in your hand. Is this the best info you can provide?

 

- So, with Ignition to On, what voltage did you measure at the Pink wire terminal Before replacing the Diode?

- What was faulty with the Diode? Open circuit, short circuit, heat sensitive?

- What zener diode did you fit? Part Number? Voltage? Something just lying around? 

- Were you careful about the correct polarity for the diode?

- What voltage did you measure at the Pink wire terminal After replacing the diode?

- Did you bother to properly read what was posted regards the diode?

 

"anyone know if there’s another diode or should I just change the whole thing?" Apart from the security Diode its ONLY a switch, Yeah sure thing, you can throw time and money at a new one OR you can simply measure voltages and continuity based on the wiring diagram Ignition Switch connections to verify if it is or isn't faulty!!

 

Have you even bothered to follow up on this basic Check as previously suggested? 

"engine stops relay clicks". So does the ESR transfer the 12v on the Black/Pink wire to the Black/White wire? Have you measured this? Have you even confirmed 12v on the Black/Pink wire?

...............................

Been following this thread with interest.

It's clear this member can't be helped via this forum, he either thinks he knows better than the collective guru's (Grum) to mention one, or he's a thicko time waster imho.

 

On 9/19/2024 at 3:25 AM, Grum said: