It was too cheap!

[Lorne]

 

On 7/15/2024 at 3:06 PM, Terry said:

When I bought 1997 VTR, the first thing I did after getting it home was to change the tensioners for manual items. More time consuming to maintain and I had to learn about tensioning them correctly, but it got rid of my impending doom feelings.

 

How did I miss your VTR pic? They are such great bikes, but with an SSSA and a 21 litre fuel tank they'd have been near perfect. I had a red '97, too, and this 2005 back in the late '00's.

 

[Terry]

3 hours ago, Lorne said:

 

 

How did I miss your VTR pic? They are such great bikes, but with an SSSA and a 21 litre fuel tank they'd have been near perfect. I had a red '97, too, and this 2005 back in the late '00's.

 

Yes I was very fond of my VTR. It was another of the "it's too cheap!" purchases and I was slightly amazed that my wife thought it was a good idea, and then consented to us driving 200km to collect it the next day...My 97 was a Japanese import (complete with a dropped Japanese coin sitting in the V) and over a couple of years I fitted manual CCT's, some gutted stock exhausts, Ohlins shock and Racetech goodies in the front, plus CBR954 calliper and master. It was a great handler, and just loped along. I sold it for nearly double what I paid for it (as long as you ignore all the extras that I added, maths was never a strong suit for me...).

[Terry]

I spent a bit more time on the VFR during the week as my long-awaited iridium plugs arrived; I was not in a tearing hurry and bought them new on eBay from a US vendor, US$90 delivered, vs local pricing of US$134. The old plugs looked like original items being Nippon Densos and very well worn. The plug change was easy enough except for the right rear coil retaining screw which was a complete bastard to undo, requiring penetrating oil and an impact driver before it cried enough, and of course I had to remove the tank to get access. Whilst I was in there I also disconnected the PAIR solenoid plug and plugged the intake flapper actuator as well. 

 

Those changes all seem like good things, and the flat spot before the VTEC activation seems to be much less noticeable, whereas previously it almost felt like the bike was running out of fuel. Had a lovely 300km ride to celebrate and it was all good. I know the flapper has no effect barring sound but I happen to like that.

 

 

For good measure and because the weather was nice, I also pulled the big blue bus out for a 300km run; I had forgotten just how comfortable and well-suspended this one is, and it made me think about a suspension upgrade for the VTEC...

 

 

[Lorne]

On 7/24/2024 at 2:01 AM, Terry said:

new camchain tensioners that I ordered 10 days ago from Webike Japan have arrived.

Thanks for the tip about Webike Japan, they are well under half of Partzilla's price is. Even with shipping & currency exchange my net cost will be about half that of my local dealer in Canada.

Edited August 11, 2024 by Lorne
typo

[Terry]

40 minutes ago, Lorne said:

Thanks for the tip about Webike Japan, they are well under half of Partzilla's price is. Even with shipping & currency exchange my net cost will be about half that of my local dealer in Canada.

You're very welcome. I would like to support my local dealer and importer but they refuse to hold stock and whenever I want something it is always "ex Japan, 6 weeks ETA, please pay up front" and then a charge that makes your eyes water. I used to use Partzilla but sometime around COVID their shipping costs went from tolerable to uncomfortable. The Webike portal is not the easiest to navigate but OK as long as you know your part numbers, and I may buy a Hurricane bar kit next. Another site that I have bought from is Wemoto as they have a location in Australia that is handy-ish and their prices and service have been great.

[fabio222]

On 7/20/2024 at 12:37 PM, VeeEffArah said:

Do you use some secret sauce on the black bits like the chain cover or was it still new looking and not faded yet?

Was thinking this myself!

 

The black plastics on my Deauville NT700v are notorious for fading to grey (cue that song by Visage being stuck in my mind!). Nothing I applied would sort it so used black trim colour which is meant to last at least a year and it's holding up alright so far.

 

Something tells me the plastics on the VFR were higher quality....

[Terry]

3 hours ago, fabio222 said:

Was thinking this myself!

 

The black plastics on my Deauville NT700v are notorious for fading to grey (cue that song by Visage being stuck in my mind!). Nothing I applied would sort it so used black trim colour which is meant to last at least a year and it's holding up alright so far.

 

Something tells me the plastics on the VFR were higher quality....

I have used this on my ST1300: https://cerakoteceramics.com/cerakote-ceramic-trim-coat-restoration-kit/

 

My choice was based on a favourite Youtuber, Projectfarm: https://youtu.be/XXOX4z6uwXo

[mello dude]

1 hour ago, Terry said:

My choice was based on a favourite Youtuber, Projectfarm: https://youtu.be/XXOX4z6uwXo

A huge thumbs up to ProjectFarm!

[fabio222]

1 hour ago, Terry said:

I have used this on my ST1300: https://cerakoteceramics.com/cerakote-ceramic-trim-coat-restoration-kit/

 

My choice was based on a favourite Youtuber, Projectfarm: https://youtu.be/XXOX4z6uwXo

ProjectFarm is the best.

[Terry]

After 1100km I decided the back PR5 was toast; a bit squared off and the blocks were starting to crack, so I levered a nice new T32 onto the back tyre.

 

I decided to delve back into the starter valves as the clutch rattle was back with a vengeance. My first run through was not fantastic and I ended up with a surprisingly long cold fast idle, basically this was only settling back in the mid 70's, and the cold speed was sitting at 2500 which seemed a bit off. While I had been poking around I did a forbidden thing namely tweaking the reference starter valve, which was weirdly completely loose; I gently finger tightened this but also filed that away for consideration. Also notable was that the reference SV's vacuum signal was very low, and it was hard to get the others to match.

 

So I cracked back into it having re-read the manual and the watched @Kaldek's useful video on how the system worked. Kal usefully showed the SV's moving via the lever on the back bank (when the engine was hot). When I tried that it was obvious that the front left SV moved only with difficulty, and the reference front right SV was jammed solid in the cold/open position. Freeing these up is probably easy with TB removal and complete disassembly but I did not fancy that so I used penetrating oil and patience until I could get the little blighters moving freely and snapping back with their return springs.

 

This then highlighted that I had inadvertantly wound closed the reference SV so I needed to wind the nut in to open that SV until I had a "reasonable" level of vacuum, then match with the rest. I can now set the idle to any level I like with a steady idle, and the idle adjuster screw now works without a fight thanks to a bit of penetrating oil. And the clutch rattle is gone.

 

So the lesson that I learned is that you need to be able to check the SVs are all free to move out and retract (which you won't see on a cold engine as the wax unit will be holding them open) otherwise the SV balance will be frustrating and other odd stuff will be happening. If you see any unusually small vacuum signals, this could well be an issue. 

 

SVs are fairly simple to understand when you step away from the heat and fumes for a moment. The throttle butterflies are 100% sealed when the throttle is closed, which you can easily check with the flat of your hand across the inlet. ALL of the air at idle is then coming in via the SVs, and I believe there are two for each cylinder, one is fixed open and the other has a plunger valve that can vary the opening. If you close the SV then the plunger moves in and seals more of the second opening, making the vacuum signal increase. If you screw in an adjuster, it retracts the plunger and allows more air to pass and lowers the vacuum signal.

 

The wax unit does the same, pulling the 4 starter valves open via a synchronising plate and linkage. As the wax unit heats up it extends and releases the SV's back to the hot idle position, which is controlled by the idle adjuster screw.

 

My only other comments are that the manual is a bit vague on some other bits. For example why on earth are we to put a cap on the PAIR valve spigots at the cylinder head? The other end of the PAIR system is sitting loose and unconnected so I simply don't get the point of that.

 

Secondly why bother to reconnect the MAP sensor to the vacuum tube? I get why connecting the MAP sensor electrically is a good idea to prevent FI faults, but the other end of the vacuum tube is the 5-way T and that is connected to...absolutely nothing while the SV balance is in progress.

 

And lastly; the vacuum tube that provides vacuum to the flapper could well be sitting wide open when the airbox is removed; it would be useful to recommend plugging that one at least.

 

Moaning completed...as you were. 

[Lorne]

On 8/17/2024 at 6:28 PM, Terry said:

After 1100km I decided the back PR5 was toast

Hmm, that seems an awfully short life for a Pilot Road. Any chance you dropped a zero in your calculations?

 

Otoh, do continue moaning - at least it makes for interesting reading.

[Terry]

9 hours ago, Lorne said:

Hmm, that seems an awfully short life for a Pilot Road. Any chance you dropped a zero in your calculations?

 

Otoh, do continue moaning - at least it makes for interesting reading.

The PR5 was on the bike when I received it. It was well worn in the centre but had a bit of life left on the edges so I have had a little use from it. The last rear PR6 that wore out was on my MT-10 and I did get 10,000km out of that somehow. 8000km is a more usual life for my back tyres and seems to be a result of my riding style (enthusiastic throttle application exiting bends) and preferred usage (corners). Fun per $ is perfectly acceptable in my view.

[Lorne]

17 hours ago, Terry said:

Fun per $ is perfectly acceptable in my view.

 

Absolutely. I only asked because my experience with Michelins is that Pilot Power would last ~8,000 km and the Road well north of 13,000 km. I'm sure doing multiple track day sessions will cut that life considerably.

[Terry]

4 hours ago, Lorne said:

 

Absolutely. I only asked because my experience with Michelins is that Pilot Power would last ~8,000 km and the Road well north of 13,000 km. I'm sure doing multiple track day sessions will cut that life considerably.

I do seem to get less distance out of tyres than many others will report. We are blessed with many twisty roads, and my bikes generally get used for fun only, along those twisty roads, so I do very little freeway riding. We also have a road surface called "chipseal" which is basically small stones embedded in tar, and these can be pretty abrasive to ride on. My worst mileage would be on my ST1300 where I wore a Pilot Road 5 GT front tyre down to the wear bars in just under 4000km! Back tyres on that bike will usually only give 6000km before they are done. Having said that I am not someone who just keeps going until the tyre cords start to show. I had a ride with a friend on a V4 Tuono and he started the day with visible tread (some fancy Pirelli Diablo thing) and just 400km later the metal cords were visible, which taught me a valuable lesson. 

[Lorne]

7 hours ago, Terry said:

I am not someone who just keeps going until the tyre cords start to show.

 

The majority of my mileage has been on my trips to California, annually till covid. Typically around 5-7,000 km round trip. A lot of their secondary highways have really coarse pavement texture, good for traction but not so much for longevity.

 

The tire in this embarrassing pic is an original Pilot Power. We'd just arrived at the Port Angeles ferry terminal in Washington State after a morning ride up from Seaside, Oregon. The night before we'd inspected the bikes and checked the chains, oil level, and tire wear. My rear's wear bars were getting pretty thin, but no worries as it was only about 350 km more to get back home. Was a bit of a shock when my pal Tony spied the rear's condition.

 

ps. my cam chain tensioners from Webike Japan arrived today. Now to figure out whether I am brave enough to tackle the job of installing them - thanks again for the tip.

 

Edited August 22, 2024 by Lorne
corrected a typo and added a line or two

[TimC]

9 hours ago, Lorne said:

The tire in this embarrassing pic is an original Pilot Power. We'd just arrived at the Port Angeles ferry terminal in Washington State after a morning ride up from Seaside, Oregon. The night before we'd inspected the bikes and checked the chains, oil level, and tire wear. My rear's wear bars were getting pretty thin, but no worries as it was only about 350 km more to get back home. Was a bit of a shock when my pal Tony spied the rear's condition.

 

 

 

That happened to me with my 6th gen. several years ago during a trip to the Skyline Drive in Virginia.  My rear tire looked fine when I was leaving home.  When got to my hotel in Front Royal, VA, I was alarmed at how thin it looked.  I think the tire wore much faster than usual due to a combination of abrasive road surfaces, a loaded bike, and hot weather.  I looked online for any local motorcycle shops where I might be able to get the rear tire changed the next day, but there was nothing close.

 

I had planned to ride a little of the Blue Ridge Parkway that trip, but that tire was already getting thin, and when I got to the BRP a warning side said 'Loose stone' (chip seal) for the first 12 miles.  No way I was risking that, so I turned back toward home.  By the time I got home I was showing cords in a couple spots.

[Terry]

My friend's Tuono tyre wear was similar to yours. I was following his bike as we approached Inglewood after we had ridden down from Auckland on some fabulous twisty roads and even a stretch of dirt road. I noticed a flash of silver as the wheel rotated and flagged him down. I had been seeing areas of bare steel cords, and our plan called for another 400km back home (up the Forgotten World Highway). Fortunately we were only 30 minutes ride from New Plymouth (a decent sized city) and it was midday on Saturday, and we got lucky to find a dealership still open and willing to call in a mechanic to swap out a tyre. Added a couple of hours to our trip but made for a good story!

[Terry]

16 hours ago, Lorne said:

 

The majority of my mileage has been on my trips to California, annually till covid. Typically around 5-7,000 km round trip. A lot of their secondary highways have really coarse pavement texture, good for traction but not so much for longevity.

 

The tire in this embarrassing pic is an original Pilot Power. We'd just arrived at the Port Angeles ferry terminal in Washington State after a morning ride up from Seaside, Oregon. The night before we'd inspected the bikes and checked the chains, oil level, and tire wear. My rear's wear bars were getting pretty thin, but no worries as it was only about 350 km more to get back home. Was a bit of a shock when my pal Tony spied the rear's condition.

 

ps. my cam chain tensioners from Webike Japan arrived today. Now to figure out whether I am brave enough to tackle the job of installing them - thanks again for the tip.

 

 I did not find the CCT swap too challenging. If you start with the back one you will have easier access and get a better feel for the task. I think the only real challenge is manouevering the front CCT out if you leave the throttle bodies in place, as there is a little wiggling and rotating needed to clear the water hose.

[Terry]

I've spent a few more evening messing with starter valves. I can definitely confirm that you DON'T want to mess with the fixed reference valve. If this is set in a slightly different position you can have either a very slow cold fast idle, or a rather fast cold idle. I now have it sitting at about 2000rpm cold which feels alright and I will try to resist the urge to fudge with them anymore.

 

It feels like spring is here. I optimistically headed out yesterday but retreated after getting properly drenched; a good test for my Alpinestars suit (passed) and SMX-S boots (also passed). Today was a beaut, fine and clear with light winds, so I headed out and did the Coromandel Loop, a great 400km loop from home which takes in some great scenery and roads.

 

The VFR did not disappoint and ran like a watch all day.

 

At Ohuka Beach, Whitianga. There were even some keen souls in the water.

 

At Kuaotunu, the water looked very inviting.

 

[Lorne]

15 hours ago, Terry said:

the Coromandel Loop, a great 400km loop from home which takes in some great scenery and roads.

 

After exploring by map & Google Earth I find that indeed you do have some great scenery and roads. Not that there is any doubt about NZ's geography

[Terry]

2 hours ago, Lorne said:

 

After exploring by map & Google Earth I find that indeed you do have some great scenery and roads. Not that there is any doubt about NZ's geography

 The Coromandel Loop is a favourite for riders from Auckland, but timing is important as the area is also a favourite destination for people towing boats and caravans. There are some great sections of the trip, Kopu to Hikuai is 30km of fast sweepers that take you up over the spine of the ranges, Pumpkin Hill north from Tairua is a 12km of very tight bends that climb up and over another hill, but my favourite is the road between Coromandel and Te Rerenga which has a fantastic set of tight and hilly curves and a mostly great road surface. There's some great views to be had but I generally keep my eye out for the next apex...

[Terry]

Decisions, decisions...

 

I have been enjoying the 6th gen, but then I pulled out my 5th gen for a little run and realised a) I don't really need two 800s and b) the 5th gen is actually quite a bit better. Before all the 6th gen owners get cross at me, I should explain that my 5th gen has the same mileage and is similarly pretty condition, but has been treated to some tasty upgrades with touring bars, double bubble screen, heated grips and a Sargent seat; it also has a Nitron shock and has had a full Racetech rebuild in the forks. As a result it is a more planted ride and more comfy to boot. Back to back, the 5th feels freer revving and better in the low and especially midrange, and has none of the 6k surge and 6800 VTEC step; it also feels less top-heavy, presumably due to the lack of the high pipes. The 6th is certainly much quieter (no gear whine) and is also smoother; my 5th has a bit of seat vibes around 7000 which the 6th does not. I still really like the 6th gen styling, but I will be keeping my 5th gen and selling the 6th, which will free up funds for another project...

 

To celebrate my decision I took a fun 320km run today on Bumblebee and he told me very clearly that we were meant to be together.

[bmart]

My buddy on his 2007 and me on my 1998 swapped back and forth a bit yesterday. I feel the same. I liked some things on the 2007, but the 1998 felt much better to me. More visceral. Better sounds. No VTEC, which while less intrusive than the earlier one I rode, but still hits like a big step when using a lot of throttle. Can't tilt levers on 2007 enough with Helis on both. 

 

And on both...why WHY do they put those silly dash buttons in impossible places to use them. Why not put them at the top of the dash!?!?!?

 

Congrats on a good decision!

 

 

[Terry]

So this thread came to an end in October and I listed my bike on our local auction site, and got as far as being visited by a potential buyer (who subsequently bought another 6th gen). As you would, I prepared the bike by giving it a good once-over and had it looking perfect for viewing, and then I proceeded to explain all the work that I had put into it, and and how nice it was to ride. I ended up convincing myself not to sell and have continued to have some great rides. Unlike you folk in the wrong hemisphere, we are well into summer here and the conditions are great for riding right now.

 

This was yesterday:

 

And for S&G I took out this lunatic machine today...

 

 

 

[St. Stephen]

Good decision Terry. On both counts. Cheers!