Gen 5 Fi light acting strange (not throwing codes, dims/glows)

[VicSev93]

Hello all! below, are the symptoms I'm experiencing, (I found them on an old thread from 13 years ago, but everything here fits to my situation) 

 

1. The FI warning light glows dimly.

2. The FI warning light can go brighter and dimmer at random.

3. The FI warning light can act in sympathy with the indicators and brake lights.

4. The FI warning light can react to switching between dip and main beam.

5. The FI warning light doesn't display any fault code.

 

 

I read that the fix was the orange earth block on the left side of the bike. So I went ahead and checked if its burnt, or something is loose, or there is some visible damage. There was NOTHING. I cleaned it with electrical cleaner, and taped it back up. It looked fresh. But my problem still persists. Any idea on what to do? I heard it can also be the kill switch, or bad wiring behind the dash. Before I go ripping everything apart, would love to know if anyone has experienced the same thing. I have also checked the negative terminal of the battery, and the negative from batt to frame. took it apart, cleaned it put it back. The bike does NOT throw codes, I checked that aswell. It runs very well as it has before (thankfully) ANY input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!

 

[Skids]

The experts will be along soon but that sounds like an earth problem to me.

[Terry]

Paging Dr Grum @Grum

 

I agree that has all the hallmarks of the earthing fault. One reported fix is to cut the earth block out and solder all the earth wires together with a solid path to a chassis ground, but there will be some diagnostics within the earth block that will point to the best solution. I expect that measuring the resistance to ground down the different wires will possibly point out which one is misbehaving. I am no expert but I believe the various earth wires join at the block and then one of them heads to the chassis ground.

[VicSev93]

35 minutes ago, Terry said:

Paging Dr Grum @Grum

 

I agree that has all the hallmarks of the earthing fault. One reported fix is to cut the earth block out and solder all the earth wires together with a solid path to a chassis ground, but there will be some diagnostics within the earth block that will point to the best solution. I expect that measuring the resistance to ground down the different wires will possibly point out which one is misbehaving. I am no expert but I believe the various earth wires join at the block and then one of them heads to the chassis ground.

Hey Terry! Thank you for the reply. Perhaps you are correct. Is there a write up on how to solder them all together and connect to chassis? I've some electrical work on my bike. Changed stator/rr. Cut and crimped some other connectors so they don't burn out. Etc. But I noticed that orange ground box has various wires going one to another. One has 6 connectors and the other I believe 4? I'm not sure now. So I can just basically combine all of em and throw another wire into the mix to connect to frame of body? Let's say the same ground as where the batt connect to body. If so. I'll get right to it! 

[Tirso]

Here is your answer:

 

[Grum]

7 hours ago, VicSev93 said:

Hey Terry! Thank you for the reply. Perhaps you are correct. Is there a write up on how to solder them all together and connect to chassis? I've some electrical work on my bike. Changed stator/rr. Cut and crimped some other connectors so they don't burn out. Etc. But I noticed that orange ground box has various wires going one to another. One has 6 connectors and the other I believe 4? I'm not sure now. So I can just basically combine all of em and throw another wire into the mix to connect to frame of body? Let's say the same ground as where the batt connect to body. If so. I'll get right to it! 

Within the earth block there are two genuine Ground wires, generally these are not the problem, its how the other ground seeking wires are connected to these genuine Grounds that are the problem. Once you cut away the orange block or remove the buss bar connector,  you can then identify and verify the two genuine grounds by measuring ohms back to the battery Negative, the two wires should measure as zero ohms back battery Negative, they might also be a slightly larger wire gauge compared to all the others.

 

If both of these wires are good back to battery Negative, then there shouldn't be a need to add an extra ground wire, optional up to you!

 

You could divide the other ground seeking wires evenly between the two main grounds and solder the two groups together, tape them up or heat shrink sleeve them, job done.

The Orange earth block can cause a multitude of problems and yours is one of them. Once properly removed and repaired your electrical reliability will be greatly improved, its a job well worth doing and doing it well.

 

Note - I've never needed to do this job, don't own a 5th.gen sadly, just offering some advice. And Yes.... strange indicator lamp effects within the instrument panel can also be caused by broken/corroded tracks on the panel pcb. But, the Orange Ground Block needs to be taken out of the equation first.

 

Good Luck.

P.s. That's a Great photo of you and bike VicSev93.

[VicSev93]

1 hour ago, Grum said:

Within the earth block there are two genuine Ground wires, generally these are not the problem, its how the other ground seeking wires are connected to the main Grounds that are the problem. Once you cut away the orange block or remove the buss bar connector,  you can then identify and verify the two proper grounds by measuring ohms back to the battery Negative, the two wires should measure as zero ohms back battery Negative, they might also be a slightly larger wire gauge compared to all the others.

 

If both of these wires are good back to battery Negative, then there shouldn't be a need to add an extra ground wire, optional up to you!

 

You could divide the other ground seeking wires evenly between the two main grounds and solder the two groups together, tape them up or heat shrink sleeve them, job done.

The Orange earth block can cause a multitude of problems and yours is one of them. Once properly removed and repaired your electrical reliability will be greatly improved, its a job well worth doing and doing it well.

 

Note - I've never needed to do this job, don't own a 5thgen sadly, just offering some advice. And Yes.... strange indicator lamp effects within the instrument panel can be caused by broken/corroded tracks on the panel pcb. But, the Orange Ground Block needs to be taken out of the equation first.

 

Good Luck.

Hello Grum! 

 

I know you are a legend on these forums. So it means a lot to hear from you. Thank you. I will definitely get in it. I do however just have one question I hope you can help me with. I understand that there are two proper ground wires. 

 

So let's say there are 2 mains and 6 others. I just crimp 1 main to 3 of em. And the other main to the other 3. But both bundles separate from each other. Is this correct? Sorry for such annoying questions. It's just this VFR is my daily get to work bike. And she's been doing great for almost two years. 

 

And BTW the Gen 5 is amazing. But then again...I never rode other gens. So I'm biased 😂

[Grum]

15 minutes ago, VicSev93 said:

Hello Grum! 

 

I know you are a legend on these forums. So it means a lot to hear from you. Thank you. I will definitely get in it. I do however just have one question I hope you can help me with. I understand that there are two proper ground wires. 

 

So let's say there are 2 mains and 6 others. I just crimp 1 main to 3 of em. And the other main to the other 3. But both bundles separate from each other. Is this correct? Sorry for such annoying questions. It's just this VFR is my daily get to work bike. And she's been doing great for almost two years. 

 

And BTW the Gen 5 is amazing. But then again...I never rode other gens. So I'm biased 😂

Legend!!! Absolutely not Sir. I like to share the little knowledge I have and I learn a lot from others.

 

Provided you have properly checked the two genuine ground wires as being good then yes if it makes things easier you could have the two groups, each group sharing a genuine Ground you could if you wanted to join the lot together as one, this has also been done successfully, the choice is yours.

If you have any doubts about the two genuine Grounds then you could add your own additional ground.

Here's an excellent example of good soldering and an additional Ground (The Green/Yellow wire).

 

[VicSev93]

4 minutes ago, Grum said:

Legend!!! Absolutely not Sir. I like to share the little knowledge I have and I learn a lot from others.

 

Provided you have properly checked the two genuine ground wires as being good then yes if it makes things easier you could have the two groups, each group sharing a genuine Ground you could if you wanted to join the lot together as one, this has also been done successfully, the choice is yours.

If you have any doubts about the two genuine Grounds then you could add your own additional ground.

Here's an excellent example of good soldering and additional ground.

 

Grum! Thank you so much. You literally made my night! I'll get on this over the weekend and report back with everything. Once again. Thank you so much! 

[Grum]

5 hours ago, VicSev93 said:

Grum! Thank you so much. You literally made my night! I'll get on this over the weekend and report back with everything. Once again. Thank you so much! 

Pleasure. Hope all goes well.

 

I guess if it was my bike I would group the wires as per the buss bar configuration and the two groups. Just keeps the wiring exactly per original.

I would make sure the genuine Ground for each group is good then cut the block away and solder each group of Ground seeking wires to its genuine Ground.

Having the two groups is also easier to solder than one big one. Sleeve the two groups with heat shrink then tape each one back to the loom.

[vfrgiving]

Have you tried pulling and cleaning the gray connector on the back of the instrument panel?  That carries the 12V for the PGM-Fi light as well as the common ground for it and all the other indicator lamps on the dash.  The interface Honda came up with for the two dash plugs isn't the best.  I've had two separate instrument cluster issues on different VFRs that were sorted out after simply pulling and cleaning the connectors with Deoxit.

[VicSev93]

On 4/28/2023 at 11:31 PM, Grum said:

Pleasure. Hope all goes well.

 

I guess if it was my bike I would group the wires as per the buss bar configuration and the two groups. Just keeps the wiring exactly per original.

I would make sure the genuine Ground for each group is good then cut the block away and solder each group of Ground seeking wires to its genuine Ground.

Having the two groups is also easier to solder than one big one. Sleeve the two groups with heat shrink then tape each one back to the loom.

Hey Grum! All done. I did exactly as you said. And bunched them all together. Sleeved and taped back to loom. Went for a ride to get some gas. Although it's 4am here in NY. No random Fi lights. Thankfully! 

[VicSev93]

On 4/29/2023 at 6:16 AM, vfrgiving said:

Have you tried pulling and cleaning the gray connector on the back of the instrument panel?  That carries the 12V for the PGM-Fi light as well as the common ground for it and all the other indicator lamps on the dash.  The interface Honda came up with for the two dash plugs isn't the best.  I've had two separate instrument cluster issues on different VFRs that were sorted out after simply pulling and cleaning the connectors with Deoxit.

Hmm this is interesting. I def have to get back there and have a look!

[Grum]

2 hours ago, VicSev93 said:

Hmm this is interesting. I def have to get back there and have a look!

Good news Victor. Glad it seems like you have it sorted.

 

Vfrgiving is correct about the Instrument Panel Plugs causing other lights and instruments to play up.

BUT the most common thing that messes with the Fi light is the Orange Ground block. The ECM provides the switching Ground for the light and it appears the ground for this function of the ECM is through the Orange Ground block.

 

Give your bike a good workout and make sure all functions are normal.

 

Keep in mind the cleaning of the panel plugs as vfrgiving suggested if any other strange anomalies appear in the instrument panel, and as mentioned, corroded/broken tracks are another fairly common panel issue.

 

Good Luck. Keep us posted.

Cheers

 

[vfrgiving]

I've also seen a similar soft glow effect on the high beam indicator bulb caused by a poor connection at the right headlight plug. 

 

I first noticed the high beam indicator glowing softly during night riding even though the headlights were in normal low.  Pulling up to an intersection behind a car I noticed the VFR's headlamp output was oddly dim on the right side.  I reached down in front of the bars and pushed on the back of the bulb connector.  The main bulb went back to full brightness and the high beam indicator lamp went completely dark as it should be.  This popped up again a few times before I pulled the main bulb connector, cleaned it and packed in some ox-gard.  That took care of it completely.