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86 VFR700F Retool or therapy or both


tsmitty

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The rubber feeler on the sidestand pre-date the introduction of the sidestand switch. Their purpose is to flick the stand up before you hit hard parts when you have forgotten to raise the stand. I learned (the hard way) that they don't always work when you flick into a slow tight turn really quickly...

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4 minutes ago, Terry said:

The rubber feeler on the sidestand pre-date the introduction of the sidestand switch. Their purpose is to flick the stand up before you hit hard parts when you have forgotten to raise the stand. I learned (the hard way) that they don't always work when you flick into a slow tight turn really quickly...

 

I keep them on a lot of my bikes when they don't look totally out of place, but I find I'm wanted to clean some things up that didn't use to bother me as much.  Probably because I'm buying and building more bikes that never had them.

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2 hours ago, Terry said:

The rubber feeler on the sidestand pre-date the introduction of the sidestand switch. Their purpose is to flick the stand up before you hit hard parts when you have forgotten to raise the stand. I learned (the hard way) that they don't always work when you flick into a slow tight turn really quickly...

lol yeah I get that...I just never wore the rubber thing out before... but I did learn my lesson about the kick stand as well.

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Just dug this pic up. This is the bike in 2020 when we thew it together for Jay.

It look very good considering... but I do want to re-hang the plastic.image.thumb.jpeg.e66ae2a54c8f5dd19f483eae3f3481c0.jpeg

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  • 4 weeks later...
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The front end is coming along nicely, the forks are straightened, re-bushed and sealed the brakes are rebuilt, slaves and master cylinder. The clutch master is done, just waiting for the slave cup, spring and seal and then I'll be heading South to the rear end. The rear will be getting fresh brakes and rotor (thanks to Captain80 for the insight on a VF500 to VFR700 rotor cross fit), wheel bearings, chain and sprockets and the shock linkage will be looked at and the grease refreshed.

On a side note, I put a wire harness on the bike unknowingly from a 86 FII, the does not fit exactly to my F model without cutting and rewiring. I don't want to cut this harness up, only as a last resort as I think this will be opening up a can of worms.  

The stock radiator, as beat-up and wrinkled as it is was tested, repaired by ICW Radiators and will be gladly put back into service. I do have a new aftermarket radiator that I fitted and had  tested and boxed up for a back-up or traded should someone need. 

So the final takeaway with the front end? Captain80 said it best...."brake fluid sucks" or something like that...

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Thought I would give an update on my bike.

The front end electrical, mechanical, hydraulics and are done. Moving on to the back took a little doing, getting the bike confidently in the air was a bit of a challenge and took some reluctant drilling on the frame. Knowing the frame wound never be considered “collectable” I drilled the stock center stand mount locations to 7/8” to accept a piece of 1/2” “black pipe”. then to the jack stands she goes....floor wrenching sucks!
The exhaust collector actually looked better than I thought, Its a Kerker White Tip I put on the bike in 86; it was pre ordered before I picked up the bike. Anyways the finish on the collector is long gone and hardly smooth and I don't know how to or if I should put a top coat on it before going back on the bike.
So I removed the rear wheel and found the sprocket carrier dampers installed wrong, leaving full metal to metal contact with the sprocket carrier lugs and the wheel hub drive webs! I am so glad I’m going through this bike piece by piece… The rear brake caliper and master cylinder are all rebuilt, wheel bearings new, sprockets new as well as a new chain when the time comes. So today I'll pre-clean the swing arm linkage before I start pulling those pins. The swing arm has battery acid staining on it and I’m not quite sure how to disguise it.
If you made it this far in this story...Thanks!
 

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38 minutes ago, VFR750F3 said:

Are you going to weld up the rear caliper support bracket or replace the swingarm?

No; everything is staying stock back there, I'm just removing, cleaning, inspect/repairing and greasing.

The shock is a Fox I put on in the late 80's and I'm quite sure I did set it up correctly! lol I, no doubt will be reaching out for some schooling. 

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Cleaned up the linkage as best I could. I feel comfortable pulling the linkage pins with minimal damage to the seals.

 

So tomorrow I'll take a reference measurement from swing arm to sub-frame and take it out and on the bench.

But my neck says I'm done for a day or so.

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You can absolutely slide everything apart, clean (tub of gas and a toothbrush) and regrease the bearings, shafts and seals without damaging the seals.  Been doing it for decades. 

 

The linkage bearings have a limited travel range and the needle bearings spread the load so much, they rarely "wear out".  I have never had to replace bearings or seals after cleaning and inspection.  Some shafts might show some wear patterns, but it is not anything that is usually detectable by measuring or tactile "inspection".

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31 minutes ago, Captain 80s said:

The linkage bearings have a limited travel range and the needle bearings spread the load so much, they rarely "wear out". 

Thanks Captain, that's very relieving to know!

What are your thoughts on the shock? 

I don't know the model number, red coil spring. I have no reason to think anythings wrong but I don't know if it still has any, I guess nitrogen, and sure don't know the pressure it needs.

I ain't looked yet, is shock length in the manual...?    lol

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54 minutes ago, tsmitty said:

Thanks Captain, that's very relieving to know!

What are your thoughts on the shock? 

I don't know the model number, red coil spring. I have no reason to think anythings wrong but I don't know if it still has any, I guess nitrogen, and sure don't know the pressure it needs.

I ain't looked yet, is shock length in the manual...?    lol

 

If the shock still has rebound and compression damping and is not leaking, great.  If you had a shop near you to recharge the nitrogen, that would be cool.  Full service on the Fox Shocks is getting expensive these days, I have 3 I need to have done for future projects.  $$$

 

Thor Lawson's Service

 

Fox Parts

 

Stock length on the 86 is 265mm, 87 is 275.  The 87 has a different linkage piece (the one that connects to the shock) to compensate, both bikes have the same ride height.  Installing a 87 shock on a 86 for extra rear ride height was a popular choice on a budget, and the 87 shock was a "better" shock, the damping circuits were separate.   Old tech now, obviously.

 

Your Fox Twin Clicker is/was a great shock.  I would set yours to at least 275, or whatever it is now if already longer.

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1 hour ago, Captain 80s said:

Your Fox Twin Clicker is/was a great shock.  I would set yours to at least 275, or whatever it is now if already longer.

I'll set the length to 275, clean the shock up and when you come and take the bike out for its evaluation/tuning runs you can give the shock a thumbs up or thumbs down on wether to rebuild or not..lol

While we are on the subject of suspension. How much should I slide the fork tubes up the steering head to compensate for the Hurricane 17" front wheel?

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Depends on the tire size.  Google tire size calculator to see what the difference in height is.  It is not going to make a difference.  The answer is 0.1 inches 110 90 16 versus 110 80 17.  The most important part of those 37mm forks is throwing on a fork brace 15wt w emulators if I recall correctly removing the anti dive and using a straight spring and not a progressive one.  I threw on some modern rubber and better forks 45mm which dropped the front end quite a bit and made big difference from the stock front end.  I would get some new dampers if you are serious about handling and adjustability with a wheel than is wider ie F2 3.5" for modern rubber or go with a 130 70 17 if you can find one that made for performance and not touring.  I am surprised that Fox shock is not leaking because mine did from just sitting.  Had it rebuilt by Daugherty.  Also you are better at jacking up the rear end instead of dropping the front end for ground clearance.  

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28 minutes ago, VFR750F3 said:

The most important part of those 37mm forks is throwing on a fork brace 15wt w emulators if I recall correctly removing the anti dive and using a straight spring and not a progressive one.

Thanks for your advise VFR but I need to go with what I have. I just want to make the old girl as mechanically sound as possible, electrical too...going as fast as I can afford..:(

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4 hours ago, VFR750F3 said:

Depends on the tire size.  Google tire size calculator to see what the difference in height is.  It is not going to make a difference.  The answer is 0.1 inches 110 90 16 versus 110 80 17. 

 

A 110/90-16?   Who puts that tire back on?   What is the difference from a 120/80-16? 

Slide the forks up 10mm to start.  

 

I'm all about getting that ass in the air, but the geometry of that bike can take getting the front down a bit too.  Plus you don't need it tilting at 45 degrees on the side stand with the stock 18" rear.  I have some VFRs with forks slid up more than that with a 2.5-17 wheel and there are no clearance issues and it is solid as can be with zero hints of any head shake.

 

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If you're going to have a tire size rabbit hole for us, use actual sizes, which rarely have anything to do with the size on the sidewall. 

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No rabbit hole.  Just experience.  Don't turn this into something it's not.  Starting points is all we're talking about.

 

Respectfully, I was not trying to make this an oil thread.

 

PLEASE DON'T.

 

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8 hours ago, Captain 80s said:

Starting points is all we're talking about.

Captain, I would venture to say that we're just talking restoring points here. I just want to bring the bike back to a point that my son remembers, that he learned how to ride on, I want to make this machine worthy enough to accept my grandson or granddaughters butt on the seat and at the controls.

My son and I want the bike as I sold it back in 2000ish; and your right about the starting points, just the basics.

I just want to get the rolling chases complete as is; there are bigger fish to fry with this project and my financial and physical frypan has lost its teflon...and the handle fell off...into the fire...gone..!

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Well the linkage is out and the swing arm off! No major issues just grime! Tons of grime!

I have to say; whoever fitted the shock clevis to the linkage knuckle is a fu#%ing idiot! They should have used shims on both sides of the clevis pivot bolt instead of just tightening the bolt to death!! Not quite a smooth pivot action. The bad news is....it was me, probably 29 year old at the time...self proclaimed genius ! lmao

I'll fix it... At least I'm off the floor doing bench work and the chassis is very close to complete.

 

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1 hour ago, tsmitty said:

Well the linkage is out and the swing arm off! No major issues just grime! Tons of grime!

I have to say; whoever fitted the shock clevis to the linkage knuckle is a fu#%ing idiot! They should have used shims on both sides of the clevis pivot bolt instead of just tightening the bolt to death!! Not quite a smooth pivot action. The bad news is....it was me, probably 29 year old at the time...self proclaimed genius ! lmao

I'll fix it... At least I'm off the floor doing bench work and the chassis is very close to complete.

 

 

The only thing it sounds like 29 year old you did wrong was not use a torque wrench.  Hell, a couple of the bolts I don't bother on either because the access is so bad.

 

The lower clevis mount used to bug me too, it didn't make sense.  Why would every other bolt have a bearing and shaft and allow for movement?  I have the correct parts, nothing is missing and there is a torque value in the Service Manual.  It was designed by Honda that way and I just stopped worrying about it.   With it all assembled, the movement is smooth and not binding.

 

I realized that it doesn't need to pivot.  The way the linkage is designed, everything else is responsible for pivoting.  What little fore/aft movement the shock does need is handled by the upper shock mount.   

 

 

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3 hours ago, Captain 80s said:

With it all assembled, the movement is smooth and not binding.

right. Not worried, The pin or sleeve tapped out of the knuckle bushings easy enough and had some flailing on the ends but all that got addressed. I don't have the shock off yet but the fitment should be a little better this time around. lol torque wrench on standby... 

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4 hours ago, Captain 80s said:

Why would every other bolt have a bearing and shaft and allow for movement?

Yeah its like roller bearings everywhere then all of a sudden bushings and a thin walled tube. The regular engineer was sick that day and Hank took over...

I don't know if its a load thing but why such thin walled sleeve!? I do have the means to ream those bushings nice and square with the world and make an actual pin, it won't be hardened but who cares. I'm not feeling it though...lol

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