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Motorcycle clicks


TonyHy

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Hi, I am new to motorcycle maintenance and working on bikes so any help would be really appreciated. I went to start my bike up after it sitting for a month and the electronics turn on and so does the fuel pump but when I press the start switch the headlight dims and the starter clicks. The battery is good it has been on a tender and was load tested to be confimed it was a good battery. My starter relay is one off amazon I can never find any OEM relays in stock. The start motor itself is fine I wired it directly to the battery and it spun perfectly. I then opened up the clutch cover and took out two gears to let the starter motor spin freely. I started the bike up like normal and when I press start the relay clicks again and the starter does not rotate. I have a few ideas why this may be happening but my main assumption is there may be a bad ground. I'm wondering if anyone else has an opinion of what could be the issue? Thanks again.

 

IMG-3594.thumb.jpg.53d35448b8d5ef48d8ef3a32ad283161.jpg

This is what the bike looked like when I took the cover off. The one gear that is missing fell off when I took the cover off and it is back on now.

IMG-3908.thumb.jpg.749c3d04f2badd16d9415911addb1906.jpg

This is what it looked like when I took off the two gears abd wanted to see if the starter could spin freely.

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Try jumper cables from your car's battery, if you don't have another m/c battery to try.  The symptom you've reported is the same one for when the battery is dead or weak, so I would first try another power source.

 

(No, it won't explode.)

 

The other possible cause is bad wiring, as mentioned.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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Captain 80s, I got my battery load tested after I let the bike sit for a month but also had the battery on a tender during that month.

 

JZH, Thanks for the suggestion I will try to jump my bike with my car tomorrow and let you know how that went.

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Just to be sure! When you say you hear a click when the starter button is pressed, are you sure you are hearing the Starter Relay click OR the normal function of the Headlight Relay click as it drops out?

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When jump-starting from auto-battery, make sure that battery is fully functional. That is, it can start car just fine. Then connect jumper cables, but leave car OFF! Never have car running, its larger alternator will fry your bike's RR. You are just borrowing car's battery.

 

Better yet, remove car's battery and bring to bike. Much safer, because if there's any other issues and bike still won't start, car invariably gets turned on out of desperation and now you've fried charging system on top of starting issues to repair.

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Grum, I'm not completely sure now that you say that but it does sound that the click is coming from the actual starter relay. Do you know if there is a way to tell the two apart?

 

DannoXYZ, Thanks for the advice I'll just take the battery from my car to not risk my car turning on. Sadly its been raining all day and it will tomorrow so hopefully I'll be able to try that out on Sunday.

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1 minute ago, TonyHy said:

Thanks for the advice I'll just take the battery from my car to not risk my car turning on.

 

Your car can turn on randomly?  😉

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6 hours ago, TonyHy said:

Grum, I'm not completely sure now that you say that but it does sound that the click is coming from the actual starter relay. Do you know if there is a way to tell the two apart?

Your Starter Relay is located just forward of the Battery.

The Headlight Relays are located in the front cowl area behind your instrument panel.

 

Remove your seat and listen near the Starter Relay for it to click when the Starter button is pressed. Do you definitely hear the Starter Relay click when pressing the Starter Button?

 

- Have you tried starting the bike with the Sidestand to UP and Clutch pulled in?

 

With a voltmeter measure the incoming 12v on the main B terminal (battery) of the Starter Relay. Now place your Red meter probe on the other main terminal, when the start button is pressed and the relay energized you should see 12v appear on this terminal being the M (motor) terminal. Refer attached diagram.

 

- Have you downloaded the 5gen Service Manual from the forum?

 

Here's a handy basic drawing of the Starting Circuit, hope it helps. It highlights in Red the 12v feed for the relay coil and the grounding side for the coil in Green. Note all the various safety interlocks/switches on both the positive and ground side for the relay coil.

 

VFR-StartCircuit2.thumb.jpg.c6ea47a0cc969db8dd4b79b49d9da063.jpg

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Grum, thanks a lot for the diagram that has helped out a lot I've downloaded the service manual and have been reading through it. I have confirmed that it is the starter relay making the clicking noise and not the headlight relay. I tried to jumpstart with my car battery and even with a good battery the bike did not turn on and the starter motor did not spin (I did also try with the sidestand up and clutch pulled in) so i'm confident that it is a wiring issue with the voltage not getting the the motor. I am going to buy a voltmeter tommorow and then I will be able to test the voltage from the relay.

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Sounds like you just need to do the voltage checks as mentioned for the main terminals of the Starter Relay, and verify continuity of the main motor lead from the Starter Relay down to the motor.

 

When the Starter Relay is energized you should also measure 12v at the main positive terminal of the Starter Motor.

 

You seem to either have a faulty Starter Relay, or some issue with the main motor lead or its connections. Check all connections are clean and tight.

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1 hour ago, TonyHy said:

I tried to jumpstart with my car battery and even with a good battery the bike did not turn on and the starter motor did not spin

"The bike did not turn on" Are you still seeing instruments come on and hear the fuel pump prime etc. at swich On or is this now not happening??

Your statement is confusing and different to your first post!

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So many times, there needs to be a glossary of terms defined:

 

turns on

turned off

started

cranks

spins

runs

died

quit

 

 

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5 hours ago, TonyHy said:

Grum, thanks a lot for the diagram that has helped out a lot I've downloaded the service manual and have been reading through it. I have confirmed that it is the starter relay making the clicking noise and not the headlight relay. I tried to jumpstart with my car battery and even with a good battery the bike did not turn on and the starter motor did not spin (I did also try with the sidestand up and clutch pulled in) so i'm confident that it is a wiring issue with the voltage not getting the the motor. I am going to buy a voltmeter tommorow and then I will be able to test the voltage from the relay.

How did you connect jumper cables between auto-battery and bike?

 

Do these two measurements with just bike battery:

 

1. battery voltage with everything OFF, volts = ?? 

2. battery voltage while pushing start-button (solenoid clicking), volts = ?? 

 

Do those same measurements after connecting jumper cables to auto battery:

 

3. voltage of auto-battery before it's connected, volts = ?? , then connect jumper-cables between bike & auto battery

4. bike battery voltage with everything OFF, volts = ?? 

5. bike battery voltage while pushing start-button, volts = ?? 

 

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5 hours ago, Grum said:

"The bike did not turn on" Are you still seeing instruments come on and hear the fuel pump prime etc. at swich On or is this now not happening??

Your statement is confusing and different to your first post!

Sorry about that let me rephrase. The instuments, fuel pump and everything else are still turning on so the the bike is still turning on. The bike starter motor is not working and not spinning.

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1 hour ago, DannoXYZ said:

How did you connect jumper cables between auto-battery and bike?

 

Do these two measurements with just bike battery:

 

1. battery voltage with everything OFF, volts = ?? 

2. battery voltage while pushing start-button (solenoid clicking), volts = ?? 

 

Do those same measurements after connecting jumper cables to auto battery:

 

3. voltage of auto-battery before it's connected, volts = ?? , then connect jumper-cables between bike & auto battery

4. bike battery voltage with everything OFF, volts = ?? 

5. bike battery voltage while pushing start-button, volts = ?? 

 

I connected both the positive terminals and connected the negative ends to the auto battery and a piece of metal on my bike. I will get the voltage readings tomorrow and post them here.

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Ok so I got the voltmeter and I got some results.

 

For DannoXYZ, battery voltage with everything off: 12.54, battery voltage while pushing start-button: 12.20

Voltage of auto battery: 12.85, bike battery voltage with jumpers and everything off: 12.83, bike battery voltage with jumpers while pushing start-button: 12.44

 

For Grum, the starter relay voltage with the bike and fuel pump on: 12.50, starter relay while pushing start-button: 0.0

 

 

So I'm pretty sure that it is a faulty starter relay and want to know if anyone has any suggestions on where to find one because I can only find them off of Amazon, thanks.

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18 hours ago, TonyHy said:

For Grum, the starter relay voltage with the bike and fuel pump on: 12.50, starter relay while pushing start-button: 0.0

 

So I'm pretty sure that it is a faulty starter relay and want to know if anyone has any suggestions on where to find one because I can only find them off of Amazon, thanks.

That's measured at B-terminal of starter-solenoid? And voltage went to 0 when pushing start button?

 

Best to get factory OEM part from authorised Honda dealer. You can return it or get warranty replacement if it fails.

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No the auto battery did not start the car because I removed it from the car and brought it over by itself. And yes the voltage was measured from the B-Terminal of the starter solenoid. and the voltage went to 0 when pushing the start button. Thanks for the help I will look around to see if I can find an OEM part.

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On 3/29/2023 at 5:28 AM, TonyHy said:

And yes the voltage was measured from the B-Terminal of the starter solenoid. and the voltage went to 0 when pushing the start button.

 

Let me get this right!!!

 

You measured 12v at the Battery side terminal (B terminal) of the Starter Relay and then when you press the Starter Switch this voltage just goes to zero!! 

Simply measure your 12v across the battery, does this also go to zero when the Starter switch is pressed??

 

The B terminal cable is a very short heavy duty cable that is directly connected to the battery positive at one end then the Starter Relay at the other! HOW ARE YOU LOSING THIS VOLTAGE???? Is this short cable damaged in any way?? Is your Battery dead?? Is your Starter Motor jammed?

 

Again.....Are your Battery and Starter Relay terminals clean and tight?

 

Did you have the Black lead of the Voltmeter on the Negative terminal of the Battery (or a good Ground) and the Red lead probing the B terminal of the Relay? Or 

Did you decide to place both meter leads on the two large Relay terminals B and M ?? This makes a big difference.

 

Refer to the Diagram I posted and the voltage test mentioned for both main terminals of the Starter Relay!

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Did you try to push start it? Get someone to push you while the bike is in gear and clutch pulled in.  Maybe the starter motor is stuck you can google how to give it a tap with a hammer to free it up.  Otherwise you did not install the gear correctly.   You can also run 12v directly to the starter google how it is done with a car basically you bypass the solenoid. I assume you replaced the starter solenoid fuse just in case.

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Grum, this was my mistake I thought that I should measure both terminals of the starter relay. The battery and starter relay connnections are clean and tight for sure. With your help, now I measured the B terminal and the negative terminal of my bike battery and it was 12.52 volts dropping to 12.33 volts when I pressed the start button. So that helps a lot and I also measured the starter motor like you said with the negative still on my negative battery terminal and it read 3.56 volts when I pressed the start button. So I think the problem is now that the volts from the starter relay are not reaching the starter motor and that is why the bike is not turning over.

 

VFR750F3, I have not tried to bump start my bike yet but I might try that to see if my bike will start and then go from there. Also I might look up how to bypass the solenoid but I want to make sure first that the wiring is the issue and not the starter solenoid. Thanks for the help.

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On 3/28/2023 at 2:01 PM, TonyHy said:

Grum, this was my mistake I thought that I should measure both terminals of the starter relay. The battery and starter relay connnections are clean and tight for sure. With your help, now I measured the B terminal and the negative terminal of my bike battery and it was 12.52 volts dropping to 12.33 volts when I pressed the start button. So that helps a lot and I also measured the starter motor like you said with the negative still on my negative battery terminal and it read 3.56 volts when I pressed the start button. So I think the problem is now that the volts from the starter relay are not reaching the starter motor and that is why the bike is not turning over.

The minimal amount of voltage-drop when pushing start-button at battery 12.52 --> 12.33v indicates that not a lot of current is flowing. Larger the current flow (50-60a typically), the larger voltage drops, usually about 1.5-2.0v

 

Having such low voltage actually reach starter shows you've got cable problem between starter-solenoid and starter. One more test to confirm:

 

1. measure voltage at starter-solenoid M-terminal, volts = ???

2. measure voltage at starter-solenoid M-terminal when pushing start-button, volts = ???

 

BTW, your battery is dead, put it on charger. We want it above 13v before any more testing.

 

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