02 VFR 800 suddenly shutting off afte 7-10 mins

[johnscad]

Hi all, 

 

I've had my 02 VFR 800 for about 4 months now  and  daily it so much that ive put about 8k miles on it, gets garage parked both at home and at work. i ride through heavy rain as i live in Seattle and it has run fine over these past four months. As of the past week though i have run into quite the issue.

 

On Monday of this week i was at my 3rd turn in the morning on my way to work, wasn't raining, i take off from the stoplight and turn left. boom middle of the turn she just shuts off. i waddle off to the side of the road and just sit there trying it for 5-10 mins off and on. eventually get it to start and think it was some bizarre battery thing as i had forgotten to take a charger plug out of a 12v socket the night before. but it ran fine all the way to work and for the next two days.

 

now come to Thursday, it was raining quite heavy this morning and i and the bike were both soaked on the way in but had no issues. on the way home from work though i stopped for some gas and then was riding and approaching an intersection an down shifted from 2nd to first and she died on me. i then coasted over and began to try and start it back up. I then jumped in place and laded on the seat and boom it started after. but i only made it about a block down the road.  it then wouldn't start for maybe 10-20 mins at a time. this process continued for another 6 shut offs, of varying distances and times, until I made it home. on the last one though i made it significantly farther than any of the others, i kept my idle at probably 2k even at a standstill. 

 

some of the steps I've taken are:

 

rode with gas cap open( wasnt raining)- had no effect on run time or starting

Check fuses- all good and solid

check fuel lines for crimps- pulled tank to make sure they are clear

check and see if fuel pump primes every time- it does

remove all aftermarket battery connection excluding batter tender cable

inspect inside of fuel tank for FOD- all good there no scale and no gunk 

previous owner recently replaced the R/R so that shouldn't have gone bad by now?

 

Things i have done in the past month to the bike: 

 New LED Sylvania high beam bulbs

installed a 12v waterproof socket directly wired to battery

new brake pads(positively unrelated)

 

when at home i began collecting as much info on it as i could when it was running. and dying. i disconnected all but the battery tender and stock line from the battery.

i know it was getting fuel as i could smelled see vapor coming out the tail end

i know it had power as i charged the battery on the tender when i got home for an hour. 

 

i got it to start a couple times and twice i let it run till it shut off. didnt time the first one or pay a ton of attention but on the second one it started up fine then ran for about 6 mins at a normal idle, then when it got up to 142 dungarees i heard an audible change in its idle. became much more burdened and sounded like it was struggling. ran for about 2 more mins, hit 150, then died on me.

 

im not very well versed electrically so im really hoping its not something like that, but any and all input would be so appreciated!

 

Thank You!

[Skids]

Have you completed a battery voltage test?

[ShipFixer]

Since its a 2002..stator if not upgraded is under powered.

 

When it dies, do the lights and dash stay "on?"  Or is it dead off?  If completely off, verify start circuit continuity through the kill and key switch.  Mine were dirty and caused some shut-offs when the circuit randomly broke.

[johnscad]

11 hours ago, Skids said:

Have you completed a battery voltage test?

No I have not, is that just measuring voltage while sitting, running, and after dying? 

[johnscad]

10 hours ago, ShipFixer said:

Since its a 2002..stator if not upgraded is under powered.

 

When it dies, do the lights and dash stay "on?"  Or is it dead off?  If completely off, verify start circuit continuity through the kill and key switch.  Mine were dirty and caused some shut-offs when the circuit randomly broke.

Most of the lights stay on yes, the FI light kind of fluttered when it shut off though 

[Skids]

30 minutes ago, johnscad said:

No I have not, is that just measuring voltage while sitting, running, and after dying? 

Basically, yes.

 

I had a R/R die on me many moons ago on my '98 model, ended up that as the turn indicator flashed on/off, the engine died/relit in tune with it so just wondering if there's an electrical issue based around the known weakness of the R/R on the earlier VFR.

 

@Grum is the electrical guru so hopefully he will be along shortly - note the time difference as he lives down under!

[johnscad]

8 minutes ago, Skids said:

Basically, yes.

 

I had a R/R die on me many moons ago on my '98 model, ended up that as the turn indicator flashed on/off, the engine died/relit in tune with it so just wondering if there's an electrical issue based around the known weakness of the R/R on the earlier VFR.

 

@Grum is the electrical guru so hopefully he will be along shortly - note the time difference as he lives down under!

Another thing to note is my left turn signal blinks rapidly 

[VFR750F3]

Did Honda replace the wiring harness?  Call them and give them your vin.  Otherwise you can fix it yourself.  Hope I am right again.

 

[johnscad]

34 minutes ago, VFR750F3 said:

Did Honda replace the wiring harness?  Call them and give them your vin.  Otherwise you can fix it yourself.  Hope I am right again.

 

Thank you! 
 

by reading through other post I’m able to confirm that it has had the recall done  as there is the lack of green wire on the front end of the blue connector, while the green wire is still remaining on the rear end! 

[Grum]

3 hours ago, Skids said:

Basically, yes.

 

I had a R/R die on me many moons ago on my '98 model, ended up that as the turn indicator flashed on/off, the engine died/relit in tune with it so just wondering if there's an electrical issue based around the known weakness of the R/R on the earlier VFR.

 

@Grum is the electrical guru so hopefully he will be along shortly - note the time difference as he lives down under!

Sorry Skids in hospital at the moment typing is difficult at the moment 

[johnscad]

12 minutes ago, Grum said:

Sorry Skids in hospital at the moment typing is difficult at the moment 

Get well! 

[Grum]

Have a very close inspection of Main Fuse B 30amp. It can suffer badly from overheating, high resistance connections, burnt wiring. This is the main power source for all your EFI stuff and might explain why the Fi light was doing strange things.

Also the Blue connector you mentioned is another weak link for your EFI power as the power goes through it twice. First up to the Engine Stop Relay then from the Relay out to all the EFI on the Black/White wire through the Blue connector. The connector is known for bad joints. Follow this using the wiring diagram for your bike.

Hope this helps good luck.

[Philois1984]

Sorry to hear that you are in hospital Grum, hope you are out and riding again soon. 

[squirrelman]

examples of main fuse overheating

 

 

 

[johnscad]

So  battery was steady at 10.7v even after night of charging.

 

got a new battery and it’s all good now, rode about 12 miles and it died on me again and is doing the same thing. Could it be stator? 
 

main fuse is clean and all

 

im now sitting here on the side of the road writing this and had it running once again for 5 mins and it died but this time at higher temps. 160-200

[Grum]

 

See attached photo of a bad Main Fuse B. Did you check yours inspecting its wiring and joiner appart from just the fuse itself?

 

Seeing you are able to get the engine to run, before it dies you need to monitor some critical voltages, those fed by Main fuse A and B. Use the wiring diagram and pick a measuring point well downstream from the fuses. 

 

Make sure your Sidestand Switch is functioning properly. Does the engine ever die while just being stationary in Neutral?

 

- Does your Starter always crank over every time you press the starter button, both in fault condition and normal?

- Do you hear the fuel pump prime at every switch on in both fault condition and normal?

 

Check your charging voltage directly at the battery. You should see around 13.5v to 14.5v at idle and 5000rpm both hot and cold engine. Closely check the condition of the three yellow stator leads going into the R/R and the output wire connection from the R/R.

 

The most common failure mode of the Stator is a short to Ground of any of the three Yellow phase wires - easy to check with a meter, just unplug the connector and probe the three wires, there should normally be no resistance to Ground, any low resistance means a cooked stator.

 

Another suspect item could be an intermittent faulty Bank Angle Sensor, this can be easily bypassed for test purposes only.

 

Good luck 

[squirrelman]

you need to test for spark when it quits. carry a spare plug so you don't need to remove one.

 

something that happened on one of my ' eighty-six seven hundreds: starts and runs right then stops after getting up to operating temp...........BAD PULSE COILS.

 

 

 

[Grum]

Good point squirrelman. Assuming the Fi light is not showing any fault codes. Both Cam and Crank pulse sensors will definitely throw a fault code if they play up. Both of these sensors on a 6gen are extremely reliable.

 

So Johnscad - Are you seeing any fault codes being displayed, ignition On and Sidestand down?

Check and clear any stored codes then re run your bike to the fault state then re check for any active and stored codes.

[DannoXYZ]

Also measure actual battery-voltage when it dies..

[mello dude]

I've stepped back from a lot of troubleshooting posting because I'm more of a gotta have my nose in it kinda guy to figure things out,... 

adding to what everbody said above...jumping in with some notes from the past.... you need to figure out if your charging system meets baseline and with that do this!

The Drill--
Go through all your connectors for burnt leads, dig deep. Crispy wires? Not good. The stator connector is the number one burn it up connector on the bike. - Your gonna have to fix that!

Then---Go through this starting point quick list. You will need a multimeter too.

Steps: ---
- Recharge battery overnite - then to take it to Autozone or similar to load test. -- Good? Bad? – An iffy battery can fake you out and act like a bad R/R. Buy new if needed.

- With good battery fire it up, warm up for a minute or two. ---- (Looks like you have a new battery so charge overnite)

These are R/R quick checks---
--- With voltmeter at battery posts get voltages -- idle volts? 5000 rpm volts? What’s the numbers? Should be in 12.8 to 13.3v min idle and generally 13.7 to 14.4 ish at revs. (if in the 12s at idle, check at about 1900rpms instead. Its not unusual for the system to be in discharge at idle. )
- I start to get a bit nervous if I see the volts creeping up to the higher 14s and 15s is a no go.
-Typically OEM R/R failure for Honda is good volts in the 13s at idle, but will drop to low 13s and even into the 12s at revs. FAIL!

(Agree with Danno, whats the battery volts when bike dies?)

- Check stator - These tests are done checking the connector that goes to the stator. (Engine off)
1. Pull connector apart. Set meter to resistance. Check pin to pin, 3 yellow wires, A to B, B to C, C to A. What’s the numbers? 3 separate readings --Should be less than 1.0 ohms.

- 2. Check continuity from each A,B,C pin to ground, -- -should be infinity - nada nothing. no continuity. -- 3 separate checks. (Connector still apart, engine off)

- 3. Crank it back up. Do another pin to pin thing, but set meter on AC volts. idle and 5000 rpms. What's da numbers? Should start 15 -20ish and climb 50ish and more. Again – 3 readings- (Again, connector apart)
 

@johnscad....OK dude, what are your numbers?