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Ignition wires Hot and reduced charging


jstehman

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So I'm still chasing the charging issue with the 07.

Starts out charging 14.1 volts idle.  Sounds normal.

Rev to 3k or so, voltage increases to 14.2-14.3.  still normal.

Now after the fan has cycled a few times and she's good and hot, the voltage falls to the 13s and just slowly climb unless throttle is given them we only get to 13.98v at 4k rpm
😕

I have already replaced the fuse B holder and am running a new fh020aa with roadstercycle connection straight to the battery.

I was feeling around for hot wires when I discovered the ones coming from the bottom of the key cylinder are H O T.  Like, I can't even hold my finger on where they exit the bottom selector.  

This does not sound normal to me.

It appears the lower piece of the ignition switch assembly is separate and is bolted to the bottom of the key cylinder.  Is this part a major PITA to change?  Or even remove for cleaning?  
 

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I would say it sounds like the setup on my ZRX which I finally replaced as it was unreliable. I took the contact assy. out of the new switch and used it in the old housing with my old key cylinder so I didn't have to worry about 2 keys. Cleaning seemed to be just temporary and one wire kept breaking at the solder joint no matter what I did. I don't remember there being 2 housings, but it was possible to replace bad parts with good. Not sure about how honda does it, but if it looks like 2 separate housings that sounds doable. Look at a parts diagram and see what you can learn.

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measure temp of FH020 RR:

 

1. on 1st startup when voltages are normal

2. again when voltages start dropping.

 

Trace where hot wires go:

 

3. determine exactly which wires are hot

4. measure exact current-flow through these wires when they're hot, clamp-on ampmeter will work

5. examine all end-components powered by this hot wire. Measure power consumption of each. Might not even be that, could have short-to-ground on that power-wire downstream somewhere

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6 hours ago, jstehman said:

So I'm still chasing the charging issue with the 07.

Starts out charging 14.1 volts idle.  Sounds normal.

Rev to 3k or so, voltage increases to 14.2-14.3.  still normal.

Now after the fan has cycled a few times and she's good and hot, the voltage falls to the 13s and just slowly climb unless throttle is given them we only get to 13.98v at 4k rpm
😕

I have already replaced the fuse B holder and am running a new fh020aa with roadstercycle connection straight to the battery.

I was feeling around for hot wires when I discovered the ones coming from the bottom of the key cylinder are H O T.  Like, I can't even hold my finger on where they exit the bottom selector.  

This does not sound normal to me.

It appears the lower piece of the ignition switch assembly is separate and is bolted to the bottom of the key cylinder.  Is this part a major PITA to change?  Or even remove for cleaning?  
 

 

Your charging voltages all look good. But the heat from your Ignition Switch wires doesn't sound right, this can be caused by only two things. 1 you have added accessories increasing the load current through the switch and wires. 2 you have developed some high resistance contacts within the switch, the most likely cause.

 

First check the nearest connector to the switch being the 4P connector (refer you wiring diagram) make sure these connections are clean and good, a coating of Ox-Gard on the pins/sockets will help, a poor contact here will make the Ignition Switch wires feel hot.

If this doesn't remove the heat from the wires you will need to removed the Ignition Switch, and carefully separate the switch and clean the internal contacts again applying a good coating of Ox-Gard to the contacts, reassemble and see how you go. I've never removed an Ignition Switch but I believe the two OEM security bolts are a PIA to remove, do worry if you end up destroying the heads of these bolts when removing them, simply refit standard Allen Head bolts.

 

Agree with Danno's good suggestions, however the Ignition Switch wiring is primarily protected against a short to frame by Main Fuse A 30amp and all the sub fuses in your fuse box downstream from the switch, Assume you're not blowing fuses?

 

Good Luck.

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I had repaired part of that connection when I wired in the new r/r.  The 2 red wires coming from the switch merge into one, and that connection was fried.  I crimped and soldered to splice that connection. Pic is from before my repair 

20200518_154620.thumb.jpg.28debed915cee4ac0f928c215d78a632.jpg

This heat is greatest directly under that selector piece 😞 the wires themselves are only warm.  I think I can get that from Honda new..but the hard part will be getting the switch off.  

 

Think it's easier to remove the ignition as a whole, then remove the bottom part?

 

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Yes, that is the OEM join of the two into one between the 4p connector and the Switch (refer your wiring diagram). This join needs to be a Very Good one, make sure your post repair is good.  However if you are feeling the heat closer to the wire joins at the switch the your problem is most likely within the switch as mentioned

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Coincidentally, the red wire that goes into the starter solenoid had melted the red connector.

 

I cut back the wire there and crimped and soldered a new spade.  

 

After startup today, I measured a .1 volt difference from voltage check at the battery.

14.08 at battery, 13.98 at red wire into solenoid, black on negative batt.

14.08 to starter motor cable on solenoid.

 

Here's the red wire at the switch connection before my repair. Feel like I crimped and soldered that one outside of the connector

20200516_121543.jpg

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Your 100mV drop between the Battery Pos and the Red wire coming off Fuse A, which is what I think you are saying! is nothing too serious, and possibly caused by fuse A blade connections. Remove the fuse check the fuse and its legs make sure there are No signs of heat stress or oxidisation, any doubt just fit a nice new 30amp Fuse. Also carefully try a gentle rub of very fine emery or wet and dry paper into the Fuse contacts within the starter relay in case of any crap on these connections. Check also the Red wire spade connection at the Red 4p connector of the starter relay make sure this is good. This is an ideal application for a small amount of Ox-Gard on the legs of the Fuse both new or the old Fuse and the Red 4p starter connectors. Hopefully this might help to reduce that voltage drop.

 

Your 14.08v at both Battery and main Positive at the Starter Relay only means you have good battery connections and healthy lead to the starter relay!

 

Back to your hot wires near the Ignition Switch, the above photo is not telling or showing me anything! I think you need a close look at the Ignition Switch internals as mentioned or a new switch fitted. You haven't mentioned if you have any additional accessories added to your bike, this could be important when it come to hot wires!

 

You should try measuring and comparing what Voltage (Ignition Switch to ON) you have at the Red wire/wires at the Ignition Switch (Voltage In) and the Red/Black wire at the Switch (Voltage Out) if there is a notable difference between the two then you've confirmed a voltage drop within the switch and the reason for hot wires.

image.png.551c9d5b127f966320a481836519bda6.jpg

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No accessories added.

 

The pic was to show the heat damage to the connector on the red wire from the ignition switch which I am sure I hard wired.

 

Guessing I at least need to remove the switch to examine/clean the contact base.

 

I found a post where someone had removed the switch, but it was a real pain.  It looks like it might be easier to remove the top triple clamp?

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