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And then there were CCTs...


ShipFixer

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What are the odds that five miles after I completed my brake and stator/flywheel upgrades, my engine would start making noises at idle like it's throwing marbles at its insides?  Apparently...really, really good.  🤦‍♂️

 

Doesn't want to do it at idle on the center stand when I am next to it with the stethoscope.  No...only when I am on it and about to ride it.  Comes and goes.  Can't think of what else it might be, and the bike is at 46K miles so it's about time.  Ordering the new part number (-013) and I might as well do both.  Anyone know a place to get the CCT key tool without making one, that's not expensive?  Or can I just go without it...

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Sounds like cct symptoms for sure. From memory the little retraction tool came with the new cct. A small flat blade screwdriver will do the trick as well, although the tool allows for locking it in the fully retract position.

Cheers.

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Thanks!  Pretty happy I did the stator before riding out, too.  I mean...if the odds for CCT issues were this good...

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One other thing - anyone see an 8th gen or new part number CCT fail a second time?  I think someone has asked on the forum before but I don't know if we ever got a conclusive answer.

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Appears high mileage 8gens have very few cct issues. Personally my 8gen has over 90,000kms with no cct problems. Believe the 6 and 8gen ccts are the same, possibly later revision level available for both gens.

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Thanks!  Yeah, the updated part number from the 8th gen is listed in the 6th gen diagram, right next to the original part.  For the same price of course!

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Before you replace the cct, get a screwdriver and check that they are able to move.

My rear one was stuck and needed a bit of lube and several attempts of rotation.

 🍻

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4 minutes ago, boOZZIE said:

Before you replace the cct, get a screwdriver and check that they are able to move.

My rear one was stuck and needed a bit of lube and several attempts of rotation.

 🍻

You mean they might not be bad? Did you have to remove them, or did you just remove the center bolt, squirt some oil down it, and turn it a bit?

 

I can take apart the top of the bike tonight if so!

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Check to see if they turn, it will be obvious if it's stuck and then if needed lube in place and try turning.

 

I had already bought a replacement so had taken it out and freed it up on the bench.

 

you might need the special tool I can't remember .

Yep you do need it to turn it.

 

Ps. When torquing the bolts back up 8-10nm not the 20nm as this is cct

"LIFTER" 

 

🍻

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Got it.  Have the air box now, about to try taking the bolt out and turning it.  Without dropping anything in the V 🙃

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Yup, got oil...so haven't quite tried yet - does it look like this?  Big phillips #1 in there now, have different size flat heads.

 

lightly trying to turn this top end does nothing yet.  
 

6319BDB8-6AB5-49A7-A56F-777CAE597EED.thumb.jpeg.556424c47c9d56aca91d265865865586.jpeg

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Tried with a big flat head that fits the slot...it doesn't turn either way.  Should it?

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Nevermind, I see from the video I need a small jeweler one.  Getting that and trying it...

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Pushed 20mL through the front CCT lifter...I'm able to wind it clockwise plenty, and it springs back all the way counter clockwise.  Did not feel sticky.  Buttoning it up!

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Okay, the front or right side of my engine still sounds like a cement mixer.  Runs great, VTEC works, but noise isn't going away.  Should I have been able to turn the CCT counter clockwise a bit and maybe its stuck there? Also did not check the rear one yet, but that's the easier one.

 

Sound kind of seems like what a loose chain might sound like to me: when I roll off the throttle, the rattle picks up like the valve train is figuring out what to do with momentum in the slack.  It doesn't correlate to anything with my stethoscope, but I can't reach the front CCT with the airbox on.  Can feel it a bit in the pegs, etc.   Does not correlate to RPM, like a bad valve or something might.


Occurs to me the other thing I did is the flywheel and stator...doesn't sound like an imbalance noise though.

 

 

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Oh dear, you went to all that trouble without fitting a new one to the front!!

If you're hearing chain slap or clatter around the cylinder head area at idle after a blip of the throttle then that generally means the cct needs replacing.

It's easy to tell from the sound location if need to do just the front or the rear.

Always best to have new cct's fitted before assuming some other kind of major issue. So common for them to fail after so many miles.

Hopefully new ones will have the problem solved for you.

Good luck.

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Well...no new one in hand yet, I was willing to try something 😉 Doesn't take too long to pull the airbox out.  Will probably take a week or so.  This is probably the cause right?

 

I may try pulling it completely out and doing a "rewind" as the videos show.  Not sure if there's any point though.

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Revzilla has the new part number in stock - so I have two coming from one source and an overnight from RevZ.  

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So I think I have the answer "Why now?" after an accidental experiment tonight.  When I flip on the brights...the noise completely goes away at idle while RPM stays steady.  So when I add those ~100W / 0.13 HP or so of effort to the engine, the cam chain smooths out.  With the bigger flywheel and stator, the engine is working less hard at idle to maintain the power out.  Putting the brights on makes the crankshaft effort about like it was before with the original smaller alternator.  So it's possible mine was this bad for a long while.  Will find out tomorrow when I get a replacement CCT!

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58 minutes ago, ShipFixer said:

So I think I have the answer "Why now?" after an accidental experiment tonight.  When I flip on the brights...the noise completely goes away at idle while RPM stays steady.  So when I add those ~100W / 0.13 HP or so of effort to the engine, the cam chain smooths out.  With the bigger flywheel and stator, the engine is working less hard at idle to maintain the power out.  Putting the brights on makes the crankshaft effort about like it was before with the original smaller alternator.  So it's possible mine was this bad for a long while.  Will find out tomorrow when I get a replacement CCT!

Sounds like a good diagnosis ShipFixer.

 

There's lots of discussion over these things as to why they fail, and simply retensioning the spring is not successful long term. Most feel that after so many miles and possibly hundreds of heat cycles along with the vibrations of the chain, that the internal spring of the CCT loses its strength and that there is a fine line between over and under tension. Some feel that its the cct itself clattering, however this can't be the case if you can easily hear the chain slap at the cylinder head!

 

Good Luck with the new ccts. Make sure they are removed with the plunger fully retracted and carefully aligned with the mounting surface otherwise you can risk popping off the steel plunger cap falling into the bowels of the engine.

Don't forget to transfer the old steel cap across to your new tensioner.

Cheers.

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Mixed news - its not the front CCT.  Going after the rear with the front one I just pulled since I just had the one new one.  
 

Forgot I took video, I'll see if this uploads.  Note the change with brights!

 

 

 

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No longer think its the CCTs.  It's something around the alternator maybe.  What...I don't know.  Sound goes away when the brights are on so it could be the bolts on the stator came loose (unlikely), the new Oberon clutch slave isn't working out (also unlikely)...dunno.  Clutch basket maybe.

 

 

 

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Auto stethoscope says likely source is behind the alternator cover.  Sigh.

 

Pretty sure everything in there is torqued properly.  Something moves and rattles metal to metal at idle and doesn't move when the brights are on.  Electric load is more relevant than RPM.  
 

Body work coming back off...

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Loose stator is the final answer.  Like not a little loose or a bolt torque imbalance either.  Re-torque and try again...

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