Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 13, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 13, 2022 I'm in the middle of removing my original brake lines to install Galfer stainless steel hose, and I've hit a snag. There's a point around the head tube where the hose leaving the left front caliper master cylinder (for LBS) joins with a tube in a small block. The tube goes under the fuel tank back to the proportional valve under the seat. The tube (45133-MCW-D00 ) threads into this block and is stuck *hard.* It is a 10mm hex bolt head over threads, so there isn't much to grip, and I am starting to round what's there. I've tried bigger wrenches and different ways of holding the block to get more leverage on it to no avail. https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/2002/vfr800-ac-interceptor/proportioning-control-valve I've got PB blaster soaking into it overnight now but I don't know how much that will do. It's two inches from the fuel tank so not going to try a torch in place, etc. The tube itself is necessary for the Galfer kit. I can order a new one, but hoping someone here who's done the Galfer or similar hose replacement kit knows some trick that is escaping me. Only thing I can think of so far is to try to disconnect the other end tomorrow, pull the whole assembly out, and get it in a vise or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 13, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 13, 2022 In the Galfer instructions, it's where new line F connects to the tube in the second photo page: https://img.jpcycles.com/staticwebfiles/instructions/pdf/166-3149.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted October 13, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 13, 2022 They are a bugger those, but I recall mine came out relatively easily so sorry, I can't assist. Hopefully someone with some ideas will be along soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer raYzerman Posted October 13, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 13, 2022 A good flare nut wrench.... hopefully you haven't rounded it off too bad. I agree penetrant and consider heat with a pencil flame torch. Mine came off without the torch, but one has to keep his swear jar handy, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 13, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 13, 2022 Great point, acquiring a flare nut wrench set today. Torch is definitely on the list of options...maybe with the fuel tank propped up and away. Just discovered magnetic induction bolt heaters on Google. But they are $200 on Amazon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 14, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 14, 2022 Got one side off, but the other remains frozen, and is now pretty rounded. Soaking in more PB but almost just vise grip time. If that doesn't work, may just cut the tube and reflare it. There are used ones on eBay, but I don't like the looks of fishing it all the way through to the proportional valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 14, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 14, 2022 Oversize crescent wrench on the block and giant channel locks on the flare nut. Flare nut wrench was just spinning around it. Lame it had to go this way but it's off. Ordered a used brake pipe with flare from eBay just in case, not sure of the odds I can reflare this thing successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted October 14, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 14, 2022 Great that you've got it off and so glad mine came off so much more easily. I know I don't have the skills or tools if it hadn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 14, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 14, 2022 Ha...I think once you go go "giant channel lock pliers" its a negative skills discussion 🤦♂️ I did Google across many forums and they all end threads with "sorry at this point vise grips are the only way." These brakes had better be magic when I'm done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Wald Posted October 14, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 14, 2022 Have you tried to introduce some vibration on the fitting? Sometimes it helps to break the bond between the threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 14, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 14, 2022 I did, along with some heat and every penetrating lubricant I had...it was just crazy stuck and made of really soft metal. Left side broke cleanly and only rounded a bit. Right side, nothing worked until I used really big pliers with bigger sharper teeth. One trick I sort of wish I'd tried is my impact wrench on a flare nut crows foot. But by the time I saw that one, the wrench flats were very rounded. I did try tapping the 10mm wrench with a 3 lb sledge but I had to use an extension bar for the actual tapping. Sometimes this works in lieu of my impact wrench, didn't make a difference here. Side note...my impact wrench is amazing, it will break the 200 ft lb axle nuts on my truck with zero back torque on the hub! It makes pneumatic impact wrenches look dumb. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-XTR-24-Volt-Max-1-2-in-Drive-Cordless-Impact-Wrench-1-Battery-Included/1002274076 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted October 15, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2022 There are at least two types of flare kits. Regular bubble, and double bubble.... make sure you get the right one! https://4lifetimelines.com/blogs/knowledge-garage/bubble-or-double-flare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 15, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2022 It's not the flaring itself I'm worried about. I don't know if there's enough room to do it in place between the frame, front subframe, radiator, fork, etc. If I end up needing to pull it out to flare it, I'll have a used one with good flare nuts by Monday-ish anyway. But I'm not excited about trying to fish that line in and out of the frame, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted October 15, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2022 Gotcha Just for information sake, I found better images if anyone cares........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted October 15, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2022 9 hours ago, ShipFixer said: Ha...I think once you go go "giant channel lock pliers" its a negative skills discussion 🤦♂️ I did Google across many forums and they all end threads with "sorry at this point vise grips are the only way." These brakes had better be magic when I'm done! Big improvement on my 01 5th Gen brakes. Almost as good as the 1200 now. Definite improvement on my 08 6th Gen when I did them a few years ago. Let us know how they are when Yr complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 15, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2022 3 hours ago, RC1237V said: Gotcha Just for information sake, I found better images if anyone cares........ It is indeed an important safety tip! I am working on the rest of the removal first, there's still a lot of that to go. After that I am going to see what I can get away with for space. Among other things I may try turning the 10mm flare nut into a 9mm flare nut with a file... 🤣 It only has to hold 5-7 ft lbs with the new Galfer junctions. Strangely I can't find the original specs for install in the manual but it sure felt like they were stuck with more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 15, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2022 I have several ways forward...but found a kit that looks like it will fit in tiny spaces and "appears to be" better than the cheaper kits: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0859QMSNX/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 Conveniently I have some VFR spare parts with tubes and flare nuts... I have the front hoses all connected except for that one junction, I will come back to this after I get the rear brake replaced. I went with red on red on red, I'm happy with it already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 15, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ducnut Posted October 16, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 16, 2022 The next hurdle is flaring that hard line, with “hard” being the operative word. Some of that material isn’t very workable, especially with budget flaring kits. Hopefully, it’ll work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 17, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 17, 2022 This kit does look better than the budget kits. I also have the replacement pipe in hand, so one thing or the other will work. Finding out soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 21, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2022 New fresh hell - WTAF was Honda thinking when it put the bolt and flare nut for the rear two brake lines in a place where you really can't get to either cleanly? I may have to disassemble the things hanging on the rear subframe to remove the tray so I can get to one stubborn 10mm bolt that wants to round in the one 12 point offset wrench I have that can reach it. A 6 point crow foot or something might do it but might also not. Super lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted October 21, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, ShipFixer said: WTAF was Honda thinking when it put Linked Brakes on a VFR. 6 minutes ago, ShipFixer said: Super lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ducnut Posted October 21, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2022 2 hours ago, ShipFixer said: New fresh hell - WTAF was Honda thinking when it put the bolt and flare nut for the rear two brake lines in a place where you really can't get to either cleanly? I may have to disassemble the things hanging on the rear subframe to remove the tray so I can get to one stubborn 10mm bolt that wants to round in the one 12 point offset wrench I have that can reach it. A 6 point crow foot or something might do it but might also not. Super lame. This is how I got to it. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 22, 2022 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 22, 2022 That does seem to be the way... So not enough room for a crows foot, and no amount of freeze off or PB will get it to move under the offset wrench without rounding. I am considering removing the mud flap at its three rivets, cutting an access hole for my socket wrench in the plastic behind it, then re-riveting. The other ways require disassembling the whole back half of the bike. For a while it seemed like I could bend that bracket enough by hand, but no luck. Even the bolts holding the proportioning valve (where the bracket is mounted to) are reversed up against the frame, so step one seems to be "disassemble whole bike." It's like Honda never considered easy replacement of even OEM rubber lines. What's even more aggravating is most of these parts are going to be permanently removed but there's not enough room in there to get my 1.5" stroke recip saw in to just cut the right things out. So destructive methods are mostly off the table...argh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ducnut Posted October 22, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted October 22, 2022 How it’s mounted in there is stupid. I was so pi$$ed off, I decided to be done with all of it and yanked all the LBS out. I already had the HEL line kit, too. Went to the salvage yard and bought an F3 frontend and F4 rear master and didn’t look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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