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Regulator/Rectifier Upgrade complete - Bike keeps cutting out


BSR67

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Guys, 

 

I've just completed the FH020A Regulator Rectifier upgrade. The bike was perfect before I undertook the upgrade - it was producing 14.3v at the battery (and handle bar mounted monitor).

 

I have fitted the upgrade provided by a VFR enthusiast (Kev's Shed - see YouTube) here in the UK. I have hard wired the three yellow wires to the new regulator, and also attached the red and black wires to the battery.

 

The bike is now continually cutting out. It will start and as soon as you try and ride, it cuts out and I have FI light on and then it stall. 

 

It feels like a bad earth, but I cannot see how. The continuity of the black wire from the regulator to the battery is perfect. The battery earth is perfect.

 

Has anyone experienced similar? I'm really irritated because I am selling the bike (was!), and only did the upgrade to improve it's saleability. It now doesn't run properly. The cutting out is chronic - it's now unrideable because it cuts out within second, re-starts, and cuts out again.

 

There are no codes for the ECM.

 

Has anyone experienced this? I have, last year, resolved the common earth bar ground issue and also the nose cone (grey) connect ground issue. 

 

I'm concerned the ECM has been fried due to the poor earth.

 

This is probably one for GRUM if he is still on here because he was a massive help with grounding issues last year .....

 

Thanks

 

BSR67

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Sorry, I don't know what might be causing the engine to cut out, but it shouldn't be related to the charging system, which is essentially a stand-alone system.  If the charging system doesn't function, the battery just doesn't get charged (or it gets overcharged...); the engine running or not usually depends on there being enough battery voltage to make a spark, fuel and air.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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Sounds like the classic symptoms of loss of 12v from Main Fuse B 30amp for all your EFI stuff.

 

Follow this voltage to see where it might be missing.

From battery to Main Fuse, to the 18p Blue connector, up to your Engine Stop Relay, with ignition to on, through the relay on to the Black/White wire and back through the 18p Blue connector, then on to where it feeds the ECM.

 

Assuming your battery is ok of course!

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Start with the battery for it's the weakest link in the whole system... To
determine the condition of an Maintenance Free battery give it a
refreshing charge... wait 30 minutes... measure terminal voltage...

12.8 or higher is a good battery...
12.0 to 12.8 is a insufficient charge... recharge...
12.0 or lower... battery unserviceable...

 

Lithium batteries requirements require a different routine than lead acid... understanding the
charger operation is key to success...

14.340 100%
13.300 90%
13.270 80%
13.160 70%
13.130 60%
13.116 50%
13.104 40%
12.996 30%
12.866 20%
12.730 10%
9.200 0%
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And if you connect it to your car battery in parallel, you'll completely rule out a crap battery. Don't futz around. 

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Connect voltmeter to supply line at ECM connector to monitor voltage.

 

Power may be perfectly fine when measured at battery. It takes a long circuitous path to reach ECM. Have to traverse muliple fuses, switches and relays. Let's see final result 1st, then if there's problem, trace cricuit to find problem area.

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9 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:


Start with the battery for it's the weakest link in the whole system... To
determine the condition of an Maintenance Free battery give it a
refreshing charge... wait 30 minutes... measure terminal voltage...

12.8 or higher is a good battery...
12.0 to 12.8 is a insufficient charge... recharge...
12.0 or lower... battery unserviceable...

 

Out of interest, do those numbers work with a smart charger? I keep my 01 permanently attached, so can I disconnect for 30 mins and the readings should be the same? 

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21 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:


give it a refreshing charge... wait 30 minutes... measure terminal voltage...

12.8 or higher is a good battery...

 

Not until you put a load on it.   You gotta see if it shits itself.

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On 8/19/2022 at 5:08 PM, BSR67 said:

I have fitted the upgrade provided by a VFR enthusiast (Kev's Shed - see YouTube) here in the UK.

Watched the video.....WARNING....

Do NOT use an Auto Reset 30amp C/B as per the video. In fact, don't use an Auto Reset C/B anywhere on your motorcycle!

ONLY use a conventional inline 30amp fuse or a Manual Reset C/B.

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Grum, All,

 

I think I've found the issue. Just prior to undertaking the R/R upgrade, I replaced the 'Oxford Heated Grips' - they had failed. I bought a new set and simply plugged the new grips into the existing sockets from the prior set - as in I didn't have to do any splicing into the loom etc - I just used what had been installed.

 

So, the wiring for the grips has historically been zip tied to the loom at the RHS of the headstock. I clearly clipped all the old zip ties off, took off the old grips, put the new grips on and then re-zip tied. 

 

So, now, when you start the bike it ticks over. Waggle the loom where is it zip tied and it cuts out. Then re-start, and turn the handlebars to the right and it cuts out. 

 

So, I'm guessing (and that's an educated guess!), that I have a broken wire in the loom where it has been zip tied for years and it will be a power wire to the ECM or similar - which is simply turning the power off. 

 

Please see the photo of the 'offending area'! 

 

Can anyone advise that colour the wire that is most likely broken is? I sense I am in from a lot of soldering/splicing.

 

If this doesn't fix it, will update.

 

Thanks

 

BSR67

IMG_5552.jpg

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BSR67 you need to establish what wire the power source for your heated grips is wired into. Looking at your picture doesn't really show anything.

Check this and lets know the color code of the wire the power wire for the grips is wired in to.

 

Normally heated grips should be powered directly from the battery via a relay triggered from a switched power source. This has minimal effect or interference with existing wiring.

 

Also the critical wire from your Kill Switch is a Black wire this is a +12v wire to energize your Engine Stop Relay. Check this wire for continuity from the switch to the relay, a break in this wire will kill your engine and bring on the Fi light.

 

If the Kill Switch itself was faulty you would NOT be able to crank the engine over.

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Yes, do not replace perfectly-working parts with new perfectly-working parts as nothing will change. Symptoms will persist because actual fault has not been found.

 

For example, there may be broken wire on harness-side of right switch-gear.

Or it may actually be power-wire in heated-grip harness that may be shorting.

 

1. as Grum mentioned, document how you have heated-grips connected

 

2. unplug heated grips, does symptoms still persist?

 

3. gently work your way down switch-gear harness from handlebar end and gently squeeze & wiggle wires. You may find broken area that way if bike cuts out. Or it may be corroded or ejected terminals at connectors

 

Trick to efficient troubleshooting (quickest and least costly), is to find actual fault 1st.

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9 hours ago, Grum said:

BSR67 you need to establish what wire the power source for your heated grips is wired into. Looking at your picture doesn't really show anything.

Check this and lets know the color code of the wire the power wire for the grips is wired in to.

 

Normally heated grips should be powered directly from the battery via a relay triggered from a switched power source. This has minimal effect or interference with existing wiring.

 

Also the critical wire from your Kill Switch is a Black wire this is a +12v wire to energize your Engine Stop Relay. Check this wire for continuity from the switch to the relay, a break in this wire will kill your engine and bring on the Fi light.

 

If the Kill Switch itself was faulty you would NOT be able to crank the engine over.

Thank you Grum. Great advice as ever.

 

I do know that the grips are spliced into a wire near the ECM - NOT to the battery. I'll check later this morning and report back. Will also unplug the grips.

 

Thanks

 

BSR67

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7 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

Yes, do not replace perfectly-working parts with new perfectly-working parts as nothing will change. Symptoms will persist because actual fault has not been found.

 

For example, there may be broken wire on harness-side of right switch-gear.

Or it may actually be power-wire in heated-grip harness that may be shorting.

 

1. as Grum mentioned, document how you have heated-grips connected

 

2. unplug heated grips, does symptoms still persist?

 

3. gently work your way down switch-gear harness from handlebar end and gently squeeze & wiggle wires. You may find broken area that way. Or it may be corroded or ejected terminals at connectors

 

Trick to efficient troubleshooting (quickest and least costly), is to find actual fault 1st.

Thank you DannoXYZ. I'll continue to investigate and report back later today.

 

Makes sense it is related to the grips ....

 

BSR67

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Grum, Danno

 

OK, so I disconnected the heated grips and pulled the fuse. The grips are splicing into a Red/Black wire immediately next to the fuse box - appears to the the 20 Amp Headlight circuit. See questionable blue connector.

 

Bike displaying the same behaviours with the grips unplugged and the fuse for the heated grips removed.

 

Hoping the video will upload and work. Start the bike, turn the handlebars, and it turns the bike off and the fuel pump cycles again.

 

Thanks BSR67

 

 

IMG_5560.jpg

IMG_5561.jpg

IMG_5562.jpg

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At switch On are you hearing the fuel pump prime and the Fi light goes out all in approx 3secs at every switch on, prior to hitting the starter switch?

 

Trust you have the wiring diagram?

The Red/Black wire is from the Ignition Switch and feeds Fuses C, E and F.

So with a voltmeter black lead clipped onto the battery negative and your red lead probing the small test points on top of either fuse C,E or F. With Ignition to on try and replicate the fault.

If you continue to read 12v at the fuse test points when the fault happens then this is Not the problem area. 

You then need to get to the Black wire from the Kill Switch as mentioned which energizes the Engine Stop Relay.

Check the wiring diagram. Notice the Right Side switches go through a 9P mini red connector, locate this you can check the Black wire voltage on both sides of the connector.

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

At switch are you hearing the fuel pump prime and the Fi light goes out all in approx 3secs at every switch on, prior to hitting the starter switch?

 

Trust you have the wiring diagram?

The Red/Black wire is from the Ignition Switch and feeds Fuses C, E and F.

So with a voltmeter black lead clipped onto the battery negative and your red lead probing the small test points on top of either fuse C,E or F. With Ignition to on try and replicate the fault.

If you continue to read 12v at the fuse test points when the fault happens then this is Not the problem area. 

You then need to get to the Black wire from the Kill Switch as mentioned which energizes the Engine Stop Relay.

Check the wiring diagram. Notice the Right Side switches go through a 9P mini red connector, locate this you can check the Black wire voltage on both sides of the connector.

 

Hi Grum,

 

Correct - on turning the ignition switch, the fuel pump runs, and the FI light goes out after circa 3 seconds.

 

When the bike cuts, and then comes back to life, the same happens.

 

Thank you for the guidance - I'm at home now so will investigate the C, E, F this afternoon between meetings! 

 

I'll test the Black wire as directed.

 

Brilliant help as ever. Thank you,

 

BSR67

 

 

 

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I seem to have found the issue ......

 

I tried all the fuses Grum - C, E, F. 12.2v at each with the engine off - reflecting the battery charge.

 

Voltage through the black wire ...... 12.2v on the red plug. 14.4v with the engine running.

 

I kept fiddling with the wires at the headstock - narrowed it down to the wires coming out of the HISS loop - if you waggle them, the engine dies and the fuel pump recycles. Basically, it keeps momentarily immobilising itself. Going to repair the wires .........

 

Will update.

 

Thanks for all you help so far.

 

BSR67

 

 

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Hi Grum, DannoXYZ

 

Fixed .......

 

The yellow red wire on the HISS ring had a break in it .....

 

I spliced a new wire in and we are all good. Phew!

 

Thank you so much for your help.

 

I can get the bike re-assembled, tested and put it up for sale.

 

Regards

 

BSR67

 

 

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