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Tires, how old is "old"


Bren

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After reading another thread, which I can't find or I would have posted there, the issue of tire age came up. Someone posted a video of a racer who went full on at the track with 10 year old tires and he commented that they were fine once he got over the psychological barrier of their age.

I know it depends how the tire was stored, UV, temps, etc. but my tires are Road 2's DOT 2015 and the bike is kept in a garage with a relatively constant temp all year - not heated.

 

I would like opinions on when a tire is really finished due to age. I ask this as last Sunday I did an advanced rider training course which was targeted at higher speed ranges, closed circuit. High speed emergency braking - 130kmh, braking while leaned over, avoiding obstacles while cornering, hard braking over wet zebra crossing and more. Bloody great fun it was.

My tires worked as they should and never made any funny moves the whole day. I got to the edge of the tires and scraped pegs regularly. 

 

I did this intentionally even though I have a brand new set of DOT 2021 Pilot Power ready to mount. Am I being a tight arse trying to get my money's worth out of old tires with lots of tread, since the kids came I don't ride as much anymore, and took a big risk OR do they last longer,  depending on storage, than the widely accepted 5 years?

After my experience on Sunday I'm tending towards the latter.

 

All opinions appreciated 👍

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I believe there are "myths" associated with all things. They take safety to the extreme and they sell more parts. One so called myth is that you replace sprockets and chain as a set. I'm on the 3rd chain on my ZRX with the same sprockets and they are no worse for the wear.

On the subject of old tires that get hard and offer no grip I will relate my experience with a 650 Seca that I had just bought and there was a large group going to Arkansas that weekend. These were the stock oem tires on the bike and I didn't have time to get new tires and then mount and balance so I decided I would go and just take it easy.  The more I rode the more I kept pushing things and those tires worked amazing. They were balling up on the sides like race tires. Everyone was astonished at what they were doing and capable of. They were 11 years old at the time as that was 93. When I got back home they were wasted. They did the exact opposite of what I had always read and been told. 

Everyone can do what they want, but just be aware that what you have always heard may not be true. Lawyers and our litigious society have a lot of bearing on these things and what their recommendation are as far as safety limits related to age etc.

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Sounds like an oil discussion on the horizon! 🙂 I can tell you my experience. 

 

Aside from hard as a rock or coming apart tires (which happens), I've never had an issue on older tires. They say 5 years from manufacture date on the sidewall, but I've ridden on much older tires are full speed and lean without issue. If they're stored inside and feel fine (soft) I'd run them closer to 10 years old without hesitation on the street, knowing that they might not be 100%. The track tires I run at full pace are 2017 manufacture date, and I know that the tire guys store them in baking hot out-buildings. So, 5 years old and abused. Drying tires will wear MUCH faster than nice soft ones also. 

 

Are new tires best/safest? Probably, but does it matter? Only you can decide by inspecting them. (Again, this is like oil and brake pads. You can replace them every ride, but...does that really make sense?)

 

If I had $1 USD for every time I've heard someone say "better change them out to be sure...I'd have a lot of tire money. I think that a worn tire is far more likely to cause a problem than a 5 year old one. the rubber gets thin and doesn't hold the heat it needs and you get flat and high spots drastically changing grip level are varying lean angles. 

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The only 'opinion' that matters is the the riders, the rest, unless coming from an 'expert', are just opinions. So if you just want to go with the crowd, do so, that's your perogative. 

 

I know what I would do, and have done recently, but that's just me. :beer:

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Who is mocking my air conditioned, inside, dark, hobbit...I mean tire closet now?

 

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1 hour ago, bmart said:

Who is mocking my air conditioned, inside, dark, hobbit...I mean tire closet now?

 

20220227_110139.thumb.jpg.6e73cc3f6e910c98fe2a7996cda1dfa7.jpg

 

Awe shit, that looks kinda familiar.  I put pairs into black plastic trash bags tied in a knot to stave off out-gassing too.  Worth anything?  i dunno, but it's a cheap extra layer of protection and keeps the smells down.

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I have only just changed out the 11-year old Pilot Road 2 on the front of my VFR. TBH it felt fine until I had what I perceived as a scary moment when I dabbed the back brake while cornering quite hard and felt the front slip sideways. I initially put this down to a combination of linked brakes and an old tyre, but subsequently found out there was gravel in the bend. After that I decided a new front tyre was an inexpensive confidence booster.

 

I rode my ST1100 on similar age Continentals when I got that, and they worked absolutely fine aside from being the wrong profile. If the tyre looks alright (not cracked/perishing) and warms/softens as it should, I will keep on using it. 

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Are the roads on the north island similar to those on the south island, which visually resembled glued down rocks? 

 

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from personal history, tyres go off when they start cracking. This can be 3-yrs old or 13-yrs old. Actual condition based upon storage and usage is more predictive than age.

 

My commuter bike had original 2008 BT-45s on them when I picked up bike in 2018 with 7K-miles. I used those tyres for another 3-yrs and wore them out at 16K-miles. Did couple of track-days somewhere in there when my race-bike was down for rebuilding. So 16K-miles over 14-yrs on set of BT-45s that was still performing well until end. They faced hard life going up & down rough hills in S.F. with plenty of potholes. I've gone off onto sidewalk many times when roads were impassible due to damage.

 

For my race-bike, I'd have set of wheels with Dunlop KR slicks and set of DOT-Rs for practice. Originally, it came with year-old set of Alpha-13SP that I used for another year. I've gotten 1-2yrs out if my DOT-R tyres and they're usually 2-3yrs old by time I get them (MotoAM take-offs, Q3, Q3+). That's about 42-46 days @ track per year; every other weekend.

 

I think in all cases with new or old tyres, you want to use caution. Take them out and slowly increase pace to get feel for them. Find limit gradually so there's no surprises and you won't get caught out.

 

There's a lot of lies started by tyre-vendors to sell more tyres. Similar to oil with 3K-mile oil-changes.

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Thanks for all the feedback and the reposting of the video I was talking about.

 

For me I didn't change the tires as I know their history, always garaged,  so I felt "half" confident they would be fine. I too always learnt that after 5 years tires should be scrapped, the local mechanic also has this opinion but he sells tires so.... and I do all my own work so he earns nothing from me 😁

 

But I do admit I was apprehensive at the beginning due to the ingrained age limit on tires that I've also grown up with. I started slow on the day, if they were going to be crap then I'd have to retire and have wasted a great day. As the day progressed I didn't even think about them anymore and just got on with the task at hand - full on emergency braking and the mid corner braking - what a buzz when you can do more than you think you can, all down to an excellent instructor. 

 

YMMV obviously but this time, and I mean this time, it worked for me and I'm still confident in the tires ability. I will be changing them out before the end of the season here just because I want to use the Powers. I bought Powers because I thought they would wear out quicker than an ST tire and not bring me past the 5 year "limit".

 

Lucky bugger nothing happened or full tire life user? I'm undecided but think I have, for my comfort zone, reached the service life of my 2015 tires. 

 

This is not a recommendation for everyone to do the same. I'm certain various brands and tires have different properties and therefore different shelf lives based on use and storage and also probably how you look at them in the morning, so decide for yourself 👍

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Hey, doesn't this solve the MBD equation? (anyone reading this knows the N + 1 rule, where N = # of bikes owned).

 

The number of bikes owned should be as many as you can ride so that the tires of all bikes owned wear out before five years!

 

 

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12 hours ago, bmart said:

Are the roads on the north island similar to those on the south island, which visually resembled glued down rocks? 

 

IMG_2660.thumb.jpg.0ed41722de161c95ab618eaf60b63486.jpg

Yes, that is our standard "chip seal", you can see it under my ST1300 about 100km south of Auckland. Apparently, it is VERY cheap. There's a few roads where they have used a decent asphalt which are gloriously smooth by comparison, and last much longer. The chip seal is very abrasive and possibly accounts for the feeble tyre mileage local riders get; I don't think I have ever got more than 10,000km from a back tyre, normally by 8k they are done.

 

The chip seal suffers really badly from tar bleed when it gets hot, then the grippy stones disappear and we get left with glassy tar with close to zero wet weather traction. If you hit that stuff in a bend in the wet, even a decent Pilot Road 6 ain't gonna save you...

IMG_3004.JPG

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1 hour ago, Terry said:

I don't think I have ever got more than 10,000km from a back tyre, normally by 8k they are done.

That made me laugh! My ST rears are on a nearly perfect 4k mile cycle before they're useless. The front are better, but the shape and feel stink by then. 

 

I loved my trip to the south island, but with a leader more looney than ours, I don't think I'll be back any time soon. 

 

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1 hour ago, bmart said:

I loved my trip to the south island, but with a leader more looney than ours, I don't think I'll be back any time soon. 

 

IMG_2399.thumb.jpg.db425a70000e0813787220cf17d811f8.jpg

Yep; every day under our current regime is just like a scene from 1984:

"The story takes place in an imagined future, the year 1984, when much of the world has fallen victim to perpetual war, omnipresent government surveillance, historical negationism, and propaganda. Great Britain, known as Airstrip One, has become a province of the totalitarian superstate Oceania, ruled by the Party, who employ the Thought Police to persecute individuality and independent thinking.[5] Big Brother, the dictatorial leader of Oceania, enjoys an intense cult of personality, manufactured by the party's excessive brainwashing techniques."

 

Whoops, must go, a big truck from the Ministry of Truth has just stopped outside my hovel....

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hahahha!!! I remember having to read that book at school in 1982! Anyone seen "Boxhead Revolution" ?

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Loved the 1984 book and film even though it looks cheesy nowadays.

I'll have to look up Boxhead Revolution 👍

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On 7/8/2022 at 8:52 PM, Bren said:

Loved the 1984 book and film even though it looks cheesy nowadays.

 

 

In the midsts of writing "1994", Orwell nearly died after his dinghy was wrecked in a weir called Corrywreckan  in Jura, Scotland. Tipping him and his young son, niece and nephew overboard without life jackets.

 

Bloody good single malt made by Arbeg that Corrywreckan! 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

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Just a note to this thread, I changed out the 2015 tyres for my 2021 Pilot Powers. Now it may be the carcass is stiffer on the PR2, or their age, but the PP went on so much easier than the PR2 were to take off. I mean really easy. They popped onto the rim so quick and relatively quietly, they did pop, I was unsure at first but after inspection and reinflating I confirmed they were on right. I balanced both and the front didn't need any weight at all, I changed to 90 degree valves also and the tyres didnt have a dot to note the heavy part of the tyre. Rock solid up to 2xx kmh.

 

Impressions are as expected from new sports tyres - bike feels and turns great with lots of confidence. I know the profile of the PP is different but I think in future I won't be keeping them on for so long as the last set. As my mileage has dropped dramatically, 800 miles last year 😭, I dont anticipate them lasting over the 5 years anyway, the whole reason I chose them in the first place. Once my kids are older and I get a life again then I can consider using ST tyres again, until that time I'll just enjoy the great grip and feedback from these 👍I'm very happy with them.

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I mount and balance all my own tires (with irons and rim protectors), and Michelin PP are by far the easiest tires I've ever done.  They almost fall on.

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3 minutes ago, Captain 80s said:

I mount and balance all my own tires (with irons and rim protectors), and Michelin PP are by far the easiest tires I've ever done.  They almost fall on.

That's exactly what I thought and seating the bead was so easy.

 

This was the first time changing my own tyres and I was prepared - 3 tyre irons, rim protectors, mounting paste and weights that I sprayed yellow to kind of match my wheels.

Didn't scratch my rims, didn't pay dealer prices and got to build something, my bead breaker 😁

I've since added plastic tubing cut lengthways to the bottom and side edges to make sure I don't scratch anything. Happy!

 

20220825_173042.jpg

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20 minutes ago, Bren said:

That's exactly what I thought and seating the bead was so easy.

 

This was the first time changing my own tyres and I was prepared - 3 tyre irons, rim protectors, mounting paste and weights that I sprayed yellow to kind of match my wheels.

Didn't scratch my rims, didn't pay dealer prices and got to build something, my bead breaker 😁

I've since added plastic tubing cut lengthways to the bottom and side edges to make sure I don't scratch anything. Happy!

 

20220825_173042.jpg

 

Hell yes.  I need that bead breaker.  I currently use my hydraulic press with a couple pieces of wood, which works just fine, but a little precarious.  I like that because it just collapses down and isn't in the way when not being used.  And as much leverage as you want with the bar of your choice.

 

Info on it?

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Holy smokes! I was thinking what overkill that is for bike tires. I've been using this for decades and change/flip tires just about weekly for track events. I broke the beads on four last night in probably 2 minutes. I don't have the space for a large one anyway. 

 

 

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