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Cam chain noise


afwjam

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I noticed it disappears for a few seconds after you rev it. Have you tried 10-40 oil? Both my 1200 and my DRZ 400 were so noisy with 10-30 that I switched to 10-40. Both bikes had less than 10,000 miles on them when I noticed this. Worth a shot for $40....

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when it’s cold, first half of video you only hear it at idle, goes away when you rev. When it’s hot you hear it more regularly at lower rpm’s, but otherwise mostly at idle. Honestly I’m wondering if the cold rattle and hot knocking are two different cam chain tensioner issues front and rear cylinder banks. I’m pretty confident it’s a low risk cam chain related sound so I think I’ve got time to figure out what to do unless the sound gets worse. The bike in the YouTube video sounds more advanced then my case. Just changed to 10-40 synthetic with no improvement in the sound.

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I guess they never sold many of these bikes 😂 

 

I’ve thought about it and decided I will wait till the prescribed valve adjustment interval at 16k. I’ve got 6k miles left to go, I’ll just ride and listen and see if the sound gets worse. If it doesn’t I can do the valve check and see what I can about the tensioners and chain from up there. Should at least be able to see the wedges and determine if the spring is pulling it tight. If the noise gets worse then I’ll plan on dropping the whole motor, removing the heads and replacing both tensioners, maybe chains if it seems necessary.
 

When I first heard the knocking sound I assumed the worst, having read the stories about the 2010 models, mine is a 2013. Since I heard the cam chain rattle at start up I felt better, and by the fact the sound comes and goes I don’t think the motor gonna seize up and blow. So I’m gonna learn to live with it and be patient, maybe 10k miles later it will still be making noise and I won’t care. 

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I will have my valve covers off soon to make my valve adjustments again, and I will look down in there to see what is accessible. Additionally, it looks like quite a bit of access just by taking off the side cover, to verify issue before going further.

1200 engine2.jpg

1200 engine.jpg

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Yeah the swarf issue, after buying what I thought was a perfect bike the knocking sound was scary. It does look like there is a lot of access to the cam chain components. I’ll have to research more carefully why Honda prescribed dropping the motor and removing heads. 
 

I bought a tail tidy and briefly entertained the Coffman exhaust, which is cheap and looks great but I worry will be obnoxiously loud and not have great performance. As I understand the ecu flash can’t actually adjust fueling? So it shouldn’t make much difference on the Dam exhaust happening before or after. I don’t think the bike needs a Power Commander although I always liked tuning my fast Triumphs before, we don’t have a dyno on big island either. That German outfit has a dyno chart for over 200 RWHP! What a widow maker that thing must be, they must have headwork and full exhaust to get all that. Anyone have any thoughts on filters? People just throw in the K&N? Wonder if it would improve intake noise. Really phenomenal motor, it’s got such an awesome power band that pulls clean from 2k in any gear. The grips made a big difference and I’m getting used to the riding position, throttle rocker should finish improving right hand comfort for me. 

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6 hours ago, afwjam said:

Yeah the swarf issue, after buying what I thought was a perfect bike the knocking sound was scary. It does look like there is a lot of access to the cam chain components. I’ll have to research more carefully why Honda prescribed dropping the motor and removing heads. 
 

I bought a tail tidy and briefly entertained the Coffman exhaust, which is cheap and looks great but I worry will be obnoxiously loud and not have great performance. As I understand the ecu flash can’t actually adjust fueling? So it shouldn’t make much difference on the Dam exhaust happening before or after. I don’t think the bike needs a Power Commander although I always liked tuning my fast Triumphs before, we don’t have a dyno on big island either. That German outfit has a dyno chart for over 200 RWHP! What a widow maker that thing must be, they must have headwork and full exhaust to get all that. Anyone have any thoughts on filters? People just throw in the K&N? Wonder if it would improve intake noise. Really phenomenal motor, it’s got such an awesome power band that pulls clean from 2k in any gear. The grips made a big difference and I’m getting used to the riding position, throttle rocker should finish improving right hand comfort for me. 

 

 

Had a coffman on my 8th gen. Silly loud, FYI.  Haha

 

These are great machines... hope this issue gets sorted soon.  Curious what it winds up being.

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Downloaded your video. 

 

Given mileage, have you run any kind of fuel system cleaner or lubricant?

 

I would *assume* that cam chain or related system noises would remain a bit more constant... I'm wondering if it's sticky injector noise, valve buildup, or wonky fuel pressure?  10k miles in 10 years offers a lot of opportunity for crud to build up... 

 

Just spitballing... but it seemed a bit familiar to noises my bike made after sitting a few years.  

 

Literally a shot in the dark.  

 

*edit* after third listen, yeah... it sounds familiar.  Especially after the bike warms.  When I get home will get mine up to temp and try to record it.  

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Mine is a poor recording of the knocking sound when hot, it usually sounds louder. The YouTube video I posted right below my video has more advanced and louder case recorded. The first comment says “tensioner error” which was my conclusion after investigating my own sound. I wonder if others have the same sound and didn’t notice, that puts more straws in the not a super serious issue bucket.

 

I don’t think it’s related to the fuel system, but you are right that it probably couldn’t hurt this bike to have a cleaner run through.
 

As I continue to ride the bike my relationship is deepening and my worries about future repairs lessons. It’s a really cool machine, kinda a cult classic I think. I see how people didn’t like the rounded styling when it came out because sport bikes were going through the angular phase style in rejection of the earlier rounded style. A decade later one style is timeless and the other played out. It’s a gorgeous machine, well made and powerful. After sorting issues with the power restrictions, sound and suspension I believe it will be one of my favorite bikes of all time up there with my KLR, K75 and Speed Triple. 
F8DEDCCF-3E47-441F-B0A7-0D2D2CA97CA1.thumb.jpeg.4a8368695e4132616eabf0dd633288bf.jpeg

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Cold start ticking isolated:

 

 

Hot engine noise front bank area

 

 

 

 

Think that matches?

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We're so pumped for new content on the 7th gen forum that anything will get our attention as if we were kittens with string.

 

To the OP - your bike sounds totally normal.  

 

I'm completely jealous that you get to make west-east and back again loops in paradise with such a machine.  

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Thank you for your interest guys! It’s all new to me so I guess I’ll have plenty of content for you.  Yokel your knocking sound is the same although milder then mine, mine sounds louder usually, although not as loud as the YouTube video above. The clicking sounds like typical valve train noise and not the same to me as what I identify as cam chain rattle. I used the mechanics stethoscope to find my cold rattle came from the chain area of my rear cylinder bank. I suspect some of this is normal for these bikes, although the sound getting louder is indicative of a problem. 
 

Honda made some interesting compromises on this engine with the valve train. The unicam system with the follower arms and nut adjustment valve clearance on the exhaust valves, which is in need of more frequent adjustment then the shim bucket style on the intake. Also the old style wedge cam chain tensioners, I’ve always heard these were unreliable back in the day. I’m less concerned then I was when I first heard the noises, but fear I’m not without issue. I’ll continue to enjoy the bike and let this issue simmer on the back burner. It seems as though it might be possible to remove the rear cam chain tensioner if there is room to pull it through the head while the engine is in the bike. There’s no room to do the same in the front. Having typed out what I have about the exhaust valves going out of adjustment, it occurs to me that it might be prudent to check sooner rather then later. Its possible this bike went on more short rides that would lead to more temperature cycling and increased risk of valves out of adjustment and possibly leading to premature wear on cam chains/tensioners. When I do the valve checks I think I’ll be able to better ascertain the condition of the cam chains/tensioners.

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1 hour ago, afwjam said:

Thank you for your interest guys! It’s all new to me so I guess I’ll have plenty of content for you.  Yokel your knocking sound is the same although milder then mine, mine sounds louder usually, although not as loud as the YouTube video above. The clicking sounds like typical valve train noise and not the same to me as what I identify as cam chain rattle. I used the mechanics stethoscope to find my cold rattle came from the chain area of my rear cylinder bank. I suspect some of this is normal for these bikes, although the sound getting louder is indicative of a problem. 
 

Honda made some interesting compromises on this engine with the valve train. The unicam system with the follower arms and nut adjustment valve clearance on the exhaust valves, which is in need of more frequent adjustment then the shim bucket style on the intake. Also the old style wedge cam chain tensioners, I’ve always heard these were unreliable back in the day. I’m less concerned then I was when I first heard the noises, but fear I’m not without issue. I’ll continue to enjoy the bike and let this issue simmer on the back burner. It seems as though it might be possible to remove the rear cam chain tensioner if there is room to pull it through the head while the engine is in the bike. There’s no room to do the same in the front. Having typed out what I have about the exhaust valves going out of adjustment, it occurs to me that it might be prudent to check sooner rather then later. Its possible this bike went on more short rides that would lead to more temperature cycling and increased risk of valves out of adjustment and possibly leading to premature wear on cam chains/tensioners. When I do the valve checks I think I’ll be able to better ascertain the condition of the cam chains/tensioners.

 

Good points.  The ticking  cold with mine was more pronounced before I ran some cleaner through the injectors. 

 

The knocking has always been present, and is louder when the bike has been run for a while.  Makes me think some relationship with metal expansion, or some level of dieseling or knocking at idle. 

 

A valve check is not a bad idea at all based on your assumptions. 

 

There is a fair bit of room up front with covers off. 

 

20220625_123357.thumb.jpg.7fde4abaa7196457881b3bdbb1ed5a75.jpg

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That’s a cool picture, nice to see how the narrow rear bank slots into the frame shape so nicely. If there’s enough room in the cylinder head casing after removing the cam I don’t see why the rear tensioner couldn’t be slid out the top. It doesn’t look like the tensioner could be slid out the front without hitting the frame. The only noise I’m positive of the location is the cold rattle which comes from the rear bank. I’ll try and locate the hot knock sometime, it could be as you say in the nature of the motor and nothing to worry about. All to be figured out in due time.

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I can hear my friend Julie talking to my friend, and her husband, John about us touching her bike. "STOP F$%&ING WITH MY BIKE!

 

Ride it. 

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No worries there my friend, it’s riding season year round here. Pontification of maintenance has no impact on my mileage which is a lot higher then most despite being stuck on a rock in the middle pacific. As a mechanic and tinkerer I can’t help but find and address mechanical issues before they become a problem, always feel better about a machine I’m in or on when I know how to fix it. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Small update. The video which I uploaded to YouTube now has three comments from people saying they have the same noise. So I’ll just assume cam chain rattle is normal on these bikes, even if it does indicate the tensioners aren’t working great. No worries there.
 

My throttle rocker along with grip puppies eliminated any hand discomfort on longer rides. I’m thinking about trying one of those 3d mesh cooling seat pads, maybe that might help keep my fat ass cool and reduce my need to shift around seat positions as often. Tail tidy looks nice. 
 

The rear shock adjustment is seized, I gather this is also normal. I’ll make the most of it as suspended now, it’s not great, especially with the wife on the back.
 

started taking to Sabstef, hoping to remove the restrictions. I ordered a new Honda chip key, the one I got has been obviously bent and straightened probably from the super stiff seat lock, don’t want to be locked out of the HISS without a backup, I’m hoping Sabstef can do the programming for the key as well, Honda dealership in Kona says they don’t have the tool. 

 

Working on setting up the GoPro for chin mount, maybe I can make a video for you guys to see some riding in Hawaii. 
 

Thanks again for all the help and thoughtful discussion.

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20 hours ago, afwjam said:

 

Working on setting up the GoPro for chin mount, maybe I can make a video for you guys to see some riding in Hawaii. 
 

 

Just did the same for here in the Appalachian mountains.  

 

Raw video, but shows where the positioning would be without the "fish eye" wide angle.

 

https://youtu.be/geDts60ZC64

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On 7/30/2022 at 12:14 PM, afwjam said:

Small update. The video which I uploaded to YouTube now has three comments from people saying they have the same noise. So I’ll just assume cam chain rattle is normal on these bikes, even if it does indicate the tensioners aren’t working great. No worries there.
 

My throttle rocker along with grip puppies eliminated any hand discomfort on longer rides. I’m thinking about trying one of those 3d mesh cooling seat pads, maybe that might help keep my fat ass cool and reduce my need to shift around seat positions as often. Tail tidy looks nice. 
 

The rear shock adjustment is seized, I gather this is also normal. I’ll make the most of it as suspended now, it’s not great, especially with the wife on the back.
 

started taking to Sabstef, hoping to remove the restrictions. I ordered a new Honda chip key, the one I got has been obviously bent and straightened probably from the super stiff seat lock, don’t want to be locked out of the HISS without a backup, I’m hoping Sabstef can do the programming for the key as well, Honda dealership in Kona says they don’t have the tool. 

 

Working on setting up the GoPro for chin mount, maybe I can make a video for you guys to see some riding in Hawaii. 
 

Thanks again for all the help and thoughtful discussion.

The US sold VFR 1200F bikes don't have HISS, which is probably why Kizer doesn't have the tool. 

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8 hours ago, afwjam said:

Your roads are better then mine!

 

black is hard to keep clean, I’ve got ceramic coat on it now let’s see how that works. 
 

07574523-BF1C-4A70-BC7A-3E99BA18E54D.jpeg

What do you spray on to clean bike?

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On 7/31/2022 at 5:14 AM, afwjam said:

Small update. The video which I uploaded to YouTube now has three comments from people saying they have the same noise. So I’ll just assume cam chain rattle is normal on these bikes, even if it does indicate the tensioners aren’t working great. No worries there.

 

Cam chain tension on a 1200 is done very differently compared to the 6 and 8gen. Has there ever been a confirmed failure of the 1200 type internal tensioners?

 

The sound you're getting doesn't have the same characteristic slap/clatter sound you tend to get on a 6gen when the CCT plunger type unit plays up, and it never appears to be the actual internal tensioner that gives any trouble on a 6gen.

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When I recently adjusted my valves on the 12 Hundo, I cracked one of them loose, and it popped a bit and spun loose 1/2 a turn. I wiggled it, and it made quite the racket just with my feeble hand movement. Maybe one of your valve rockers is loose, or has excessive play. Have you taken the rear cover off and taken a look in there? You might even be able to get it off without even removing the airbox - not so with the front. I have re-used my gasket twice without incident, just pay attention to the two little O-rings around the locating pins...

20170321_190940.jpg

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On 8/2/2022 at 12:02 PM, Oregonian said:

The US sold VFR 1200F bikes don't have HISS, which is probably why Kizer doesn't have the tool. 

Appreciate that, my ignorance was going to make it difficult 😂 

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23 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

What do you spray on to clean bike?

That’s duragloss car wash out of a foam canon. Was washing the wife’s car and decided to do the VFR at the same time. 

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