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Voltage Drop when Bike gets Hot


VicSev93

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Hello all!

 

Question, as I am lost...when my bike gets hot, I seem to lose voltage. I have the SH847 installed, and a stator from Ricks. I know that's not the best stator, but its all I can get at this time. I installed the r/r about a month ago, and the stator just 3 days ago. Here is my issue. When bike is cold/started the voltage is at a steady 13 or 13.1, at 3 and 5k rpm, its at 14.3 or 14.4. So all checks out there. I have checked the stator for shorts, and did "the drill" all checks out. I have tried two dif batteries, and the issue persists. When my bike gets hot, I am riding at like 12.8v at almost full throttle! I just dont know where to look anymore. I checked the fuses, I checked connectors all around (unless I missed some?) and they're all nice and clean, and good to go. I try my best to take care of this bike, so I really would love some input. This usually happens over 200f. when I parked my bike, and let it cool to 175, the voltage started coming back, 13.5 at 3k/5k rpm, I sure if I let it sit more, it will be back to normal voltage. 

 

Basically, the hotter my bike the less voltage I have, and I am worried I'm going to mess something up. As far as what I have connected to the battery, its just the r/r connections, and the voltmeter. Any tests I can run? any connectors I need to check...please let me know!

 

If you are wondering why I even did all these upgrades, is because I had some aftermarket crappy r/r when I bought the bike. So I changed that out. After a month with the new R/R. I noticed a decrease in voltage aswell. To a point where my batt was at 11.8 with bike turned off. I checked my oem stator, and it had shorts between coils. So I got Ricks stator. It all checks out in lower temps, but when it heats up, I get worried...I have a 2 day trip coming up, Id just like to see whats going on. Thank you!!!!!

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- What are the connections like for the 3 yellow stator output wires connecting to your RR? Have you soldered them or crimped them or used a high quality connector?

- Also the 30amp fuse for the main 12v wire, is this a good high quality fuse holder?

- Hope your not using a self resetting c/b, these can develop their own voltage drop?

- Does the fuse or c/b get hot?

- Do you have any other accessories added to the bike?

- Does the RR ever get very hot?

Sorry for all the questions!

 

If you can probe the three stator wires measuring the AC voltage between cold good operation versus hot bad operation also make sure the voltages are the same between phases. This might indicate a stator issue when hot if the AC volts drop off or if the AC volts remain good then that might point to the RR not working properly.

I've heard there are Chinese SH847 copies out there that have caused issues, hopefully you have the genuine Shindengen type.

 

Good luck. Hope this helps.

 

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Hello! thank you so much for your reply. Let me do my best to answer you.

-I have crimped the 3 yellow wires from R/R to Stator, since I cut out the connector.

-The fuse holder is OEM and has not been touched, however, it is clean, and there is no sign of burnt out fuse or fuse holder. 

I am not sure what a self setting c/b is, I am sorry. 

The only other accessories I have added, is my voltmeter, and the SH847 full kit which I got from Roadsycle. com. The kit comes with the pos and neg wires which add on to the battery. 

The r/r does get hot. But not hot enough for me not to able to touch it. 

 

I have measured the AC voltage on all 3 wires when the bike was at about 175F, all were around 21/22 at idle, and went higher as I revved the engine to 5k. 

 

I hope this helps!

 

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Just as long as you Don't have one, a self re-setting Circuit Breaker in series with the main 12v red wire RR output.

 

Does the back of the RR have good contact with the bike frame? Heat dissipation might be an issue here. Perhaps a coating of some white heatsink compound (used in electronics for power components heat dissipation) on the back of the RR will help heat transfer into the bike frame.

Still think you should record AC voltages say at 3000rpm when cold then compare voltages when hot. 

You really need to determine the Stator output is good or bad hot or cold before you can say the RR has an issue.

 

Suggest getting back to Roadstercycle, they may be able to advise further, might offer you a replacement RR or at least throughly test it for you.

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Hey Grum! This is the kit I have, pic attached, I believe, I do in fact have what you're talking about, the re-setting circuit breaker. I got this kit from roadstercycle.com, I have read here that the website, and the owner, Jack, is the guy to go to when it comes to r/r's, So I went on there and bought the best one. The kit also came with a metal baseplate, since the r/r is bigger than the OEM, so the metal plate is connected to the frame, and r/r to the metal plate. (I will attach photos aswell) in the 3rd pic, you can see there is def a huge gap between the r/r and frame, that the metal plate creates. Perhaps thats the issue? I'd love to hear your thoughts. 

 

As far testing AC voltage, I will get back to you first thing in the morning! its 2am here in NYC, and my neighbors would absolutely kill me. Haha!

SH847 irf.jpg

rr location 1.jpg

rr location 2.jpg

280303670_740583506977872_3806296339822955030_n.jpg

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Yep you have an auto resetting or self resetting Circuit Breaker! Develop a short in the R/R and this stupid device will keep cycling on and off, via its internal bimetal strip contact. Heats up open circuits, cools down closes contacts heats up open circuits and so it keeps repeating! You can just imagine the consequences if its contacts ever wield themselves closed! There's no way these things would be allowed in the aircraft industry for system protection! The contacts could develop high resistance connections, and may be somewhat heat sensitive!

 

You'd be better off with a good 30amp inline fuse. See attached.

 

Your stator AC voltage might be borderline when loaded i.e connected and running with the RR, but for comparison the hot bad and good cold voltages may give a good indication of the stators health.

Also try the standard open circuit voltage test with the stator unplugged from the RR. Check this at 3000rpm make sure that in the hot and cold situation the AC voltage is something over 60vac and equal across the 3 phases, if the voltage starts dying with heat you'll know it's the Stator.

 

 

IMG_1340.PNG

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Thank you so much! Will run all stator tests in the morning. Two questions. 

 

1) should I remove that base plate between rr and frame? And bolt rr directly to frame for better connection? Because the heatsink of the rr is qaaay bigger than the baseplate.

 

2) I already have that fuse connector. So thats good news! What do I do exaclty? Cut out the circuit breaker and install this instead? 

 

Once again. Thank you so much! I was L O S T. 

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I should mention, I have not installed the series type SH847 personally, just making some  suggestions for fault finding.

 

1) We have a member "mello dude" who makes high quality adapter plates. Would be worth contacting him via Private Message. Hopefully he will chime in if he reads this.

 

2) Certainly cut it out or if it has terminal stud type connections on the CB you could unbolt it from the wires, but you'll need to neatly solder and sleeve, or use a good 30amp rated inline connector to join your fuse wire into the RR positive lead.

 

There are quite a few members who have installed the 847, hopefully they may offer some further assistance, I've pretty much ran out of any other suggestions.

Good luck, hope you get it sorted.

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Cooncidental this should come up.  I installed my 847 last year and I am having the >exact <  same issue.  Better weather finally arrived the past 2 days so I went out for for my 1st '22 ride for a couple of hours.  The 1st 30 minutes, no problem.  By the last 30, these issues surfaced - again.  Over the winter months I replaced the lousy self reset circuit breaker with a 30 amp maxi fuse.  Also checked the stator connector wiring for resistance,  all good. I'm using Mello Dude's mounting plate. Battery checks out on a load test.  Last year to test the stator, I ran it without  bodywork.  Upon return to the garage,  stopped the engine,  immediately pulled the plug from the R/R and checked stator output with the engine good 'n hot.  It was something like 60 volts st 5,000 rpm.  Voltage and resistance checked out fine when hot.

 

Mostly mine acts up when idling.  Yesterday I stopped at a traffic light and the fan was running.  12.4 to 12.5V indicated.  I began bringing rpm's up to finally 8,000 and it just got to 13V indicated.  And I'm running HID headlights,  so there's much less current draw than stock.  Only when I got moving again did the voltage finally return to the mid 13s - fan still going.   Fan off back to 14.2. 

 

I contacted Jack last year after I experienced this and the reply to me was "it's  your stator".  Hmmm.  Let's see, it's an OEM Honda unit with 10,000 miles on it.  And,  prior to the 847 I did not have these issues. And, the stator checks out when hot.  

 

Frankly I think it's one of several possibilities.  

1. Jack himself is getting snookered and is unknowingly selling Chinese crap knockoffs.

2.  The 847 just isn't as good as he says it is. 

3. He's just full of crap. 

 

He seemed to have no willingness to at least check it out, just points the finger at the bike's system.  Even if he did put it on his R/R dyno, it would be in his nice,  cool shop, and he'd likely send it back and say "it's fine".  

 

Needless to say I'm extremely disappointed in the 847 (at least the unit I got) and Jacks lack of support.  You bought it,  you own it,  no returns or adjustments.  I'll probably run it again this year,  but will be looking for another solution.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hey! Im sorry youre having the same issue. May you please link me to this plate from mello man? I cannot find it. I will be doing the fuse replacement today aswell. I have a 2 day trip coming up. And honestly am thinking of just wiring in my old r/r. There was nothing wrong with it either. Just thought this one would be better. 

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I'm thinking of doing the same . . . or maybe sourcing an FH020, maybe at least that might regulate enough current to run the fan without draining the battery.  At this point infortunately I cannot recommend the 847.  

 

Send Mello a message and tell him you'd like to buy  a mounting plate - see link to his profile. 

 

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/search/&q=Mello dude&quick=1&type=core_members

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Mostly the adapter plates are for 6th gens, although it could be used as a heat sink for 5th gens......

 

I  have traded notes with Cogswell on the 847, and left me head scratching with the voltage behavior totally weird......

 

Other charging notes........I changed out my OEM stator for a rewind,  by Custom Rewind last November......it didn't need it, but I wanted to see waht it was like...sometimes I do stuff just to satisfy curiosity...

The stator wires have no connector except directly to the R/R.......no solder, crimp or anything.

I have a few good rides on it, and as a comparison,  roughly OEM range was range was 13.7 to 14.4 volts.

(I have a voltmeter mounted up front by the tank bolts)

I am finding the rewind stator range more like 13.9 to 14.7....does it mean anything....dunno,  I won't claim it....

 

More fodder......so before the SH847 came to be, the FH020AA was the go to...  and lots of guys installed it...including me.....

I hadn't heard of any problems with it.....and I'm probly on 5years on mine....maybe it's still the better choice.....

 

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Well boys, I actually just installed my old R/R back (crimped it to the stator this time, getting rid of old connector) since I have a two day trip coming up and no heatsink plate just yet (Mello Dude, Id love to buy one of your plates, please!) the 847 sure is weird. I wont give up on it just yet, perhaps once I change the C/B for a 30 amp fuse, and have better heatsink it will do its job..or not. Who knows. I gotta say, Custome Rewind sounds like a good place to send a stator to. Gonna go for a test ride and see how everything is! 

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1 hour ago, VicSev93 said:

Well boys, I actually just installed my old R/R back (crimped it to the stator this time, getting rid of old connector) since I have a two day trip coming up and no heatsink plate just yet (Mello Dude, Id love to buy one of your plates, please!) the 847 sure is weird. I wont give up on it just yet, perhaps once I change the C/B for a 30 amp fuse, and have better heatsink it will do its job..or not. Who knows. I gotta say, Custome Rewind sounds like a good place to send a stator to. Gonna go for a test ride and see how everything is! 

How does the charging voltage measure up with the old RR fitted? If alls good with the old RR kind of proves something isn't right with the SH847.

 

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

How does the charging voltage measure up with the old RR fitted? If alls good with the old RR kind of proves something isn't right with the SH847.

 

Hey Grum, went for a ride, waited till the bike is over 200f, till the fan kicked in, etc. Rode for a good hour or so. Stop and go traffic, and so forth. The old R/R wired up to the stator does WAY better than the 847. Even at 217f, while riding the voltage was 14 and above, at idle it was about 12.9. Compared to 847, which, as I mentioned before, was giving me a voltage of 12.6 at 5k rpm at over 200f. Something aint right with the thing!

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Well it sounds like you and Cogswell both have a good case for a warranty claim. At least it would be interesting for him to verify it on his test bike!.

Just for info - Here's his warranty statement, and fake RR video. Good luck to both of you, the SH847 is an expensive bit of kit, it should be performing perfectly, especially seeing it's rated at 50amps continuous!!!

 

 

20220524_165549.jpg

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5 hours ago, Grum said:

Well it sounds like you and Cogswell both have a good case for a warranty claim. At least it would be interesting for him to verify it on his test bike!.

Just for info - Here's his warranty statement, and fake RR video. Good luck to both of you, the SH847 is an expensive bit of kit, it should be performing perfectly, especially seeing it's rated at 50amps continuous!!!

 

 

20220524_165549.jpg

 

Mine has likely been too long now,  and all I got from Jack on 2 occasions was "it's your stator".  So with regard to warranty claims, I refer to possibility 3 in my above post.  Besides, he has no facility to test it at higher operating temps and would almost certainly tell me "nothing wrong with it".

 

I cannot recommend either the 847 or Jack.      

Mello, where did you source your 020?

 

Thanks

 

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Cogs.....I did get it from Roadstercycle.......connectors and R/R only since I do my own harness work....looks like winter 2017.......I have never had any real correspondence with Jack.....

 

Possibly if you wanted to end run around Jack, you could find out where the FH020AA is used on production bikes (I think Yamaha and Suzukis) and order from RonAyers  or Partzilla.

 

The Furakawa connectors are available from CycleTerminal as well as the Metripack 630 fuse holders..

 

Found at site called gummycarbs.....

Saying 2013-2015 CBR500R uses the FH020AA

and FJR1300 2015+ also .......

 

RonAyers lists the CBR part at $127........

FJR part at $197.....

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To all those who have an Auto Resetting Circuit Breaker, on the main 12v lead from the R/R. PLEASE READ THIS!

The logic of these devices in a short circuit situation baffles me! There is a real potential for burnt wiring and fire! A fuse or Manual Reset C/B is the only way to go!

 

Auto_Reset_Breakers.jpg

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This alone is probably reason enough to avoid Roadster Cycles kits. You can purchase manual reset breakers or a fuse kit and replace them, adding to expense.  If you have a 6th gen, placement will be an issue given the the length he cuts the wires - you'll probably end up tucking it behind the frame next to the battery, just over the header downtubes, causing the breaker to trip when things heat up.   There's no mystery to the kits.  The wiring and connectors are available as are genuine Shindegen R/Rs if purchased from OEM suppliers. 

 

I'm planning on subbing an 020 for the 847 to see how that works out.  Will report back on what I  find.  In the meantime,  if you can solder,  skip the RC kits and do this yourself.  I would be money ahead  had I done that.  You'll have a better setup for the same or less money.  

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Never liked the idea of a resettable circuit breaker......I'm running a 40amp Metripack 630 fuse holder,  I purchased from CycleTerminal. Then also I prefer to do my own harness work and use marine grade wiring....source....Del City.....another good electrics company.

(Jeez, dont use any wire from AutoZone)

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  • 1 month later...

IN regards to regulator issues i had some troubles with my 97 and 94 vfr  and discovered that the reg overheated  due to limited airflow  over its mounting

position. I added a computer  cpu cooling fan ( 12 volt) on top  of the reg  to force airflow and guess what.... trouble went away.

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Which regulator do you have?

 

SH847 never gets hot, so you can place it anywhere. I've actually put it underneath battery to use as spacer when going to smaller lithium battery.

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