StrayCat2 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Preparing for new tires to go on the VFR. Looked in the owners manual and I have 2 questions for those who have done it. 1) Is it really necessary to remove the front wheel speed sensor 2) do you have to remove "both" brake callipers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 21, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2022 Can't comment on the 8th gen but I do have experience with radial callipers and ABS sensor on my MT-10. I suspect you'll run less risk of chipping the wheel rim if you remove both callipers. Just do it, and clean and lube the pistons while you have them off. As for the wheel speed sensor, these can be damaged if you are a little clumsy removing the wheel, and the clearance to to the pulser ring is usually very small, so for the sake of another couple of bolts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayCat2 Posted April 21, 2022 Author Share Posted April 21, 2022 Cheers ! My Africa Twin is similar but in fact you dont need to remove half of what the manual says. Ill just follow the manual for the VFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFR78 Posted April 21, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2022 I have a 2014. I always take off both calipers, but have never removed the abs sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 21, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2022 53 minutes ago, VFR78 said: I have a 2014. I always take off both calipers, but have never removed the abs sensor. Same here on my 2014. Just add a small amount of Loctite 243 threadlocker to the caliper bolts on the install. The head lift stand makes the job a cinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayCat2 Posted April 21, 2022 Author Share Posted April 21, 2022 cheers guys, i've got a head lift stand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkie Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 I take off the calipers, but don't touch the sensor. You are also supposed to replace the caliper bolts every time, but I don't. But definitely bounce the front end a bit to ensure proper alignment, and use a torque wrench. Settings are in the manual. Here's instructions from the expert: https://youtu.be/DYHV78tWs1c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted April 22, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, Sparkie said: You are also supposed to replace the caliper bolts every time, but I don't. I think there are about 3 guys in the USA that replace the bolts every time, maybe 12 or 13 worldwide. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFR78 Posted April 22, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2022 I’ve replaced the bolts on two occasions in the last 7.5 years and 72,000 km. They are hollow, so I figure they will lose their flexibility/stretching ability over time. It costs a bomb, so I can understand why people baulk at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFR78 Posted April 23, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2022 Abt. $108.00 AUD a set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Thumbs Posted April 23, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2022 That’s why I put Ti in mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFR78 Posted April 23, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2022 Not too sure that is the solution. I think they are supposed to stretch - once! Ti might be too strong for the alloy in the fork mounts. I really have no idea what is best. Never did mechanical engineering or metallurgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 23, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2022 17 hours ago, VFR78 said: Not too sure that is the solution. I think they are supposed to stretch - once! Ti might be too strong for the alloy in the fork mounts. I really have no idea what is best. Never did mechanical engineering or metallurgy. Tightened firmly but never over tightened and with a little threadlocker eg. Loctite 243 applied to the threads they'll last years and years........Have never replaced the caliper bolts on the four VFR's I've had, front or rear. Still here to tell the story! As always YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 25, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 25, 2022 I have never replaced calliper bolts either. My logic is they are steel bolts @ low torque where the alloy that it threads into is the limiting factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFR78 Posted April 25, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 25, 2022 I’ve only done it a couple of times, purely because its cost prohibitive. What I’d really like to know, or understand, is why Mr Honda says they need to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted April 25, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, VFR78 said: I’ve only done it a couple of times, purely because its cost prohibitive. What I’d really like to know, or understand, is why Mr Honda says they need to be replaced. Lawyers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted April 25, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 25, 2022 14 hours ago, Terry said: I have never replaced calliper bolts either. My logic is they are steel bolts @ low torque where the alloy that it threads into is the limiting factor. You've never seen a stretched steel bolt threaded into alloy, then? They look like this: https://www.triumphrat.net/attachments/tiger-brake-bolt-jpg.63642/ If a bolt is repeatedly stretched, it will eventually snap. Only a question of time... Ciao, JZH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 25, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 25, 2022 30 minutes ago, JZH said: You've never seen a stretched steel bolt threaded into alloy, then? They look like this: https://www.triumphrat.net/attachments/tiger-brake-bolt-jpg.63642/ If a bolt is repeatedly stretched, it will eventually snap. Only a question of time... Ciao, JZH Not arguing there, but the torque on the brake bolts on all my axially mounted callipers is only 31 N-m. Which is not much more than snug. The service manual does state that the bolt is ALOC type which means it is factory supplied with threadlocker. My view is that Honda rightly consider this bolt to be critical and hence the threadlocker, and that if the bolt is re-used the threadlocker can't be relied upon. I don't use threadlock here, but do religiously use a torque wrench. I've never seen any sign of stretch on the bolts but will keep an eye out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 25, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 25, 2022 8 hours ago, JZH said: You've never seen a stretched steel bolt threaded into alloy, then? They look like this: https://www.triumphrat.net/attachments/tiger-brake-bolt-jpg.63642/ If a bolt is repeatedly stretched, it will eventually snap. Only a question of time... Ciao, JZH Pity there's no info about the bolt being stretched. Was it done for demonstration? Was it incorrectly torqued? Perhaps the N-m torque value was incorrectly read as Ft-lb? Was the bolt faulty from manufacturer? How many reuse cycles had it done? What would be the state of the internal threads after such over tightening? I inspect my caliper bolts before reinstalling, none have ever looked anything like the photo, I'd certainly bin it if it did, will continue to keep a close eye on them. As mentioned I never over torque them and use a little 243 threadlocker when installing. I guess there's a similar analogy to those who believe chains should only ever be replaced with new sprockets! Just for the fun of it! Took out one of the caliper bolts. 90,000k's and with brake pad and tyre changes has now done seven removal and installs. And most certainly.....YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayCat2 Posted April 26, 2022 Author Share Posted April 26, 2022 Honda wants new bolts on the Africa Twin callipers as well. I dont change the calliper bolts, I just re apply thread locker and re use them. they not that tightly torqued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted April 26, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2022 Maybe Honda was worried some folks might use the inferior Triumph bolts... Working on cars for a living for quite some time, and wrenching on cars and bikes all my life, I don't think I've ever seen a bolt that bad. Seen some with stripped threads, buggard up threads, corroded, rusted, pitted, and bent. I'm also a machinist, so I do notice things on fasteners way more than most people. almost looks like inferior metallurgy, or waaay over-torqueing many times in a row. Usually, the offender will rip out the alloy threads in their nice aluminum mating part first. Let's see what Danno says, he's seen more than I have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 26, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2022 Did a bit of a search. These bolts seem to be as rare as rocking horse shit in Australia! According to Honda's recommendation of one use only, you'd need 4 new bolts every time you either drop the front wheel off for a new tyre or to fit new pads, and that these bolts are used on multiple bike models, there should be thousands of these bolts readily available, there just isn't! No wonder they are rarely if ever replaced! Part Number 90131-MEL-000 Flange Bolt 10×57mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFR78 Posted April 26, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2022 They are rare. I’ve waited at least a month for mine. Very strange all around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fink Posted April 27, 2022 Member Contributer Share Posted April 27, 2022 On 4/25/2022 at 9:19 PM, Terry said: Not arguing there, but the torque on the brake bolts on all my axially mounted callipers is only 31 N-m. Which is not much more than snug. The service manual does state that the bolt is ALOC type which means it is factory supplied with threadlocker. My view is that Honda rightly consider this bolt to be critical and hence the threadlocker, and that if the bolt is re-used the threadlocker can't be relied upon. I don't use threadlock here, but do religiously use a torque wrench. I've never seen any sign of stretch on the bolts but will keep an eye out. Have seen a few "waisted "bolts on Cbrs over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayCat2 Posted April 27, 2022 Author Share Posted April 27, 2022 Usually the result of someone using the "arm-strong" torque wrench, I bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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