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Good day folks,

 

I recently purchased a 2014 VFR800 deluxe and would like to ask a question about an erratic idle. The idle will fluctuate about 250 rpm (cold or at OP temp). The bike was bought new in 2017 (I am the second owner) and has 1,100 miles of use, so sat around a lot. The fuel tank looks like new inside. The bike is bone stock, except for an Arrow slip on muffler (was installed when I bought it). I want to put the bike into diagnostic mode and would like to verify that it is the light green and grey wires in the red connector that are to be connected together. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Warm regards,

 

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I believe there is a factory service manual available for free download in the downloads forum.  Mite have a look. 

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It's supposed to idle higher when cold, then settle in when warm.  It also raises the idle when you are in first gear with the clutch pulled in.

All perfectly normal.

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45 minutes ago, Cogswell said:

I believe there is a factory service manual available for free download in the downloads forum.  Mite have a look. 

 

4 minutes ago, Sparkie said:

It's supposed to idle higher when cold, then settle in when warm.  It also raises the idle when you are in first gear with the clutch pulled in.

All perfectly normal.

Thank both of you for your replies.

 

I have the factory service manual, it only shows the factory diagnostic jumper plug. I would like to do it without the plug.

 

The bike idles very erratically, whether upon cold start or at full operating temperature.

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That sounds like stale fuel, have you emptied the tank or put a few gallons through it? Preferably empty and let it dry inside 

 

As it’s been stood it’s the first thing I’d look at …. if there’s water in the fuel the injectors may need a clean 

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55 minutes ago, Thumbs said:

That sounds like stale fuel, have you emptied the tank or put a few gallons through it? Preferably empty and let it dry inside 

 

As it’s been stood it’s the first thing I’d look at …. if there’s water in the fuel the injectors may need a clean 

 Thank you for the reply.

 

I should have mentioned, I siphoned the tank and put non-ethanol fuel in with Redline SI-1 fuel additive. I have put 75 miles on it. I want to check if there is any codes stored and want to verify it is the light green and grey wires in the diagnostic plug that I need to connect together.

 

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3 hours ago, SingleCylinderLife said:

 Thank you for the reply.

 

I should have mentioned, I siphoned the tank and put non-ethanol fuel in with Redline SI-1 fuel additive. I have put 75 miles on it. I want to check if there is any codes stored and want to verify it is the light green and grey wires in the diagnostic plug that I need to connect together.

 

To check for stored codes its the Green and Brown wires that require a shorting link. Where are you seeing a Grey wire? More importantly are you seeing any Active fault codes?

 

Agree with Thumbs regards bad/old fuel. Your bike will need more the 75 miles to have a good effect, you might need a couple of tanks to go through with high quality injector cleaner added.

 

20220311_080955.jpg

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44 minutes ago, Grum said:

To check for stored codes its the Green and Brown wires that require a shorting link. Where are you seeing a Grey wire? More importantly are you seeing any Active fault codes?

 

Agree with Thumbs regards bad/old fuel. Your bike will need more the 75 miles to have a good effect, you might need a couple of tanks to go through with high quality injector cleaner added.

 

20220311_080955.jpg

Please excuse me while I extract my head out of my rear end. The wire I am calling grey is apparently brown. It sure looks grey under a led flashlight. I do not have a CEL active and have never seen one. I just returned from an 80 mile ride and the bike is still running the same. I am concerned if it is a stuck/leaky fuel injector, I could wash a cylinder out. I greatly appreciate the info. I will check and see if there is any stored codes.

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59 minutes ago, Grum said:

To check for stored codes its the Green and Brown wires that require a shorting link. Where are you seeing a Grey wire? More importantly are you seeing any Active fault codes?

 

Agree with Thumbs regards bad/old fuel. Your bike will need more the 75 miles to have a good effect, you might need a couple of tanks to go through with high quality injector cleaner added.

 

20220311_080955.jpg

Upon shorting the green and brown wires, the CEL is on and not blinking.

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1 hour ago, SingleCylinderLife said:

Upon shorting the green and brown wires, the CEL is on and not blinking.

CEL???? Take it you mean the MIL or Fi light. Looks like you have No stored codes.

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8 minutes ago, Grum said:

CEL???? Take it you mean the MIL or Fi light. Looks like you have No stored codes.

Yes sir, I meant the MIL light. I do not have any stored codes. If I can figure out how, I will load a video of what it is doing.

Thank you very much.

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Just for the hell of it! Have you experimented with adjusting the idle speed control, the adjusting knob is just above and forward of the clutch slave cylinder?

Have you set the warm idle to 1200rpm?

 

There is also the launch assist function that has been mentioned which increases the rpm by approximately 250rpm. This ONLY happens when in gear at the point where the clutch switch opens as you release the clutch lever. Kind of an anti stall function.

 

And..

- Is your engine performing normally under all other riding conditions?

- Has the issue been there since purchase or something that has occurred recently? Perhaps straight after any servicing?

- Is it the original battery?

- Are your battery terminals clean and tight?

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8 hours ago, Grum said:

Just for the hell of it! Have you experimented with adjusting the idle speed control, the adjusting knob is just above and forward of the clutch slave cylinder?

Have you set the warm idle to 1200rpm?

 

There is also the launch assist function that has been mentioned which increases the rpm by approximately 250rpm. This ONLY happens when in gear at the point where the clutch switch opens as you release the clutch lever. Kind of an anti stall function.

 

And..

- Is your engine performing normally under all other riding conditions?

- Has the issue been there since purchase or something that has occurred recently? Perhaps straight after any servicing?

- Is it the original battery?

- Are your battery terminals clean and tight?

Good evening,

 

I have adjusted the warm idle speed to 1,250 rpm. Every so often, the engine will idle smoothly and the rpm is setting right at 1,250.

 

I have bikes that have the launch assist function and the VFR does not seem to have the launch assist. I have to raise the RPM's manually to launch.

 

The engine seems to be operating normally other than idling. Engine temperature displays quickly after a cold start, engine temp is about 174F when cruising (in 70F ambient temperature). Engine RPM's seem to stay steady while cruising, with no fluctuation. VTEC activates smoothly.

 

I have had this issue since purchasing the bike.

 

The clutch fluid, brake fluid and battery were changed before I purchased it. The functioning of the clutch and brakes seem fine.

 

The battery terminals are clean and tight. I checked them and added a little dielectric grease to them. The voltage after sitting over night is 13.18V and over 14v when running.

 

Thank you for your continued support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ive never had the launch assist either and I bought mine new ..

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20 hours ago, Cogswell said:

I believe there is a factory service manual available for free download in the downloads forum.  Mite have a look. 

You are correct sir. Upon further reading, I see where it shows the green and brown wires. Thank you for your advice.

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10 hours ago, SingleCylinderLife said:

I have bikes that have the launch assist function and the VFR does not seem to have the launch assist. I have to raise the RPM's manually to launch.

 

8 hours ago, Thumbs said:

Ive never had the launch assist either and I bought mine new

 

You won't notice this subtle function with normal riding, but it should be there.

 

A simple test.....

Bike on center stand, engine running and warmed, Sidestand Up, Pull the clutch in, shift into 1st gear, now slowly release the clutch, monitor the rpm, it should increase by approximately 250rpm at the point where the clutch switch deactivates.

If not, confirm your clutch switch operation by trying an in gear engine start, clutch pulled in, Sidestand Up.

 

As to the idle issue, if the injector cleaner has no effect. It might be worth checking the Starter Valve Synch, and a check of all vacuum hoses that there is no leak.

Another thought!. Make sure your Throttle Cable Free Play is correct. A badly adjusted/lack of free play throttle cable will cause idle rpm to change when turning your steering across the full arc of movement, lock to lock, the lack of free play could slightly effect the butterflies from fully shutting,  messing with what the Starter Valves are trying to do!

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

 

 

You won't notice this subtle function with normal riding, but it should be there.

 

A simple test.....

Bike on center stand, engine running, Sidestand Up, Pull the clutch in, shift into 1st gear, now slowly release the clutch, monitor the rpm, it should increase by approximately 250rpm at the point where the clutch switch deactivates.

If not, confirm your clutch switch operation by trying an in gear engine start, clutch pulled in, Sidestand Up.

 

As to the idle issue, if the injector cleaner has no effect. It might be worth checking the Starter Valve Synch, and a check of all vacuum hoses that there is no leak.

Another thought!. Make sure your Throttle Cable Free Play is correct. A badly adjusted/lack of free play throttle cable will cause idle rpm to change when turning your steering across the full arc of movement, lock to lock, the lack of free play could slightly effect the butterflies from fully shutting,  messing with what the Starter Valves are trying to do!

I left for a quick ride before seeing  this, and to my surprise, the launch assist is working now. It does seem to raise about 250rpm (like my V-Strom 650). It is with the erratic idle that it is hard to tell exactly how much the rpm is raising. There has been virtually no change i the erratic idle. I did remove the clutch switch this morning to check function and reinstalled it. I just filled up and added some more Redline SI-1. I will run another tank through it and see how it goes. The throttle has plenty of play straight ahead and full lock to the right. There is diminishing throttle play as it is turned to the left.  I would have thought you would loose throttle play as the bar is turned to the right. The erratic idle is present anytime, moving or not.

 

Thank you again for the continued support.

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Ok. Glad you have confirmed launch assist is working.

 

Well it might get back to Starter Valve Synch, or dirty injectors.

You could also check for good electrical connections at both MAP and TPS sensors. Make sure the vacuum hoses for the MAP sensor have no kinks, cracks and are properly connected.

Good luck, keep us posted. 

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5 minutes ago, Grum said:

Ok. Glad you have confirmed launch assist is working.

 

Well it might get back to Starter Valve Synch, or dirty injectors.

You could also check for good electrical connections at both MAP and TPS sensors. Make sure the vacuum hoses for the MAP sensor have no kinks, cracks and are properly connected.

Good luck, keep us posted. 

Sure thing, I appreciate all the information.

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On 3/11/2022 at 5:16 PM, Grum said:

Ok. Glad you have confirmed launch assist is working.

 

Well it might get back to Starter Valve Synch, or dirty injectors.

You could also check for good electrical connections at both MAP and TPS sensors. Make sure the vacuum hoses for the MAP sensor have no kinks, cracks and are properly connected.

Good luck, keep us posted. 

Good day folks,

 

Well, It went from bad to worse. The erratic idle has decreased about 95%. I now have a bogging/surging issue. While taking off, I will get to 2.5k rpm and it will surge to about 3k rpm, and again at about 3.5k rpm it will surge to about 4k rpm. I have performed the fuel flow test per the service manual and have plenty of flow. I would also like to know at what temperature the cooling fan operates. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

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4 hours ago, SingleCylinderLife said:

Good day folks,

 

Well, It went from bad to worse. The erratic idle has decreased about 95%. I now have a bogging/surging issue. While taking off, I will get to 2.5k rpm and it will surge to about 3k rpm, and again at about 3.5k rpm it will surge to about 4k rpm. I have performed the fuel flow test per the service manual and have plenty of flow. I would also like to know at what temperature the cooling fan operates. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Are you sure the bogging/surging your're experiencing is not the typical cool engine issue the 8gen has?

Until the engine gets to near operating temp this is what they tend to do. I have a hill I need to get up leaving my house, with a cool engine it is reluctant to get up and go, very sluggish throttle response, once warm there is no issue. Many other 8gen owners report the same effect.

 

Cooling fan switch on from memory is around 104degC 220degF. Doesn't appear to be stated in the 8gen Service Manual.

 

Here is an unwritten test you can do to confirm your fan operation.

-Bike in Neutral and stationary, engine temperature above 45degC or 113degF.

- Now hold the RPM to anything above 2000rpm, after approx 8secs the cooling fan will come On and remain on until RPM is below 2000rpm.

 

Your normal engine temp of 174degF 78degC compares nicely with my bike in mild ambient temperatures, on hot days I can see into the low 80's, and in stop start riding conditions in any ambient temperature the cooling fan will generally kick in.

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2 hours ago, Grum said:

Are you sure the bogging/surging your're experiencing is not the typical cool engine issue the 8gen has?

Until the engine gets to near operating temp this is what they tend to do. I have a hill I need to get up leaving my house, with a cool engine it is reluctant to get up and go, very sluggish throttle response, once warm there is no issue. Many other 8gen owners report the same effect.

 

Cooling fan switch on from memory is around 104degC 220degF. Doesn't appear to be stated in the 8gen Service Manual.

 

Here is an unwritten test you can do to confirm your fan operation.

-Bike in Neutral and stationary, engine temperature above 45degC or 113degF.

- Now hold the RPM to anything above 2000rpm, after approx 8secs the cooling fan will come On and remain on until RPM is below 2000rpm.

 

Your normal engine temp of 174degF 78degC compares nicely with my bike in mild ambient temperatures, on hot days I can see into the low 80's, and in stop start riding conditions in any ambient temperature the cooling fan will generally kick in.

I generally start my bike on the center stand and let it idle to about 150F before starting out. The bogging/surging is present no matter the engine temperature.

It was last doing it about 10 miles into the ride.

 

The fan checks out per your description. I started it this morning, let it reach about 160F and started to raise the rpm to verify it is was still surging. The fan would kick on at about 2.5k and would shut off as soon as throttle was released.

 

My bogging/surging issue literally started as soon as the original condition of erratic idle stopped. Very frustrating to say the least.

 

I was thinking about checking fuel pressure next, per the manual.

 

Thank you Grum.

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On 3/17/2022 at 10:44 AM, SingleCylinderLife said:

My bogging/surging issue literally started as soon as the original condition of erratic idle stopped. Very frustrating to say the least.

 

I certainly know of one other 8gen that suffered from this and it was caused by a dirty bad batch of fuel picked up from a remote outback town. It required a fuel pump replacement, however you'd expect replacing the fuel filter would have done the trick.

 

If you can do the fuel pressure test, and having a Pass in Pressure and Flow, that should at least then eliminate the fuel pump or filter as the cause.

 

Still think a good inspection under the tank area and the airbox removed to check all vacuum hoses and good electrical connections to IAT, MAP and TPS, perhapsa little Ox-Gard applied to their electrical contacts. Issues with these sensors would normally (but not always!) induce an Fi fault code.

 

Water condensation and or bad fuel can cause your issue, however I think you've covered this situation.

 

Otherwise, given the lengthy period of no use, you may be looking at having the injectors professionally cleaned and flow balanced. Blocked or poor performing injectors won't be detected by the ECM as a fault code.

 

Starter Valve synch has been suggested for your idle issue but poorly adjusted Starter Valves shouldn't effect your wider throttle opening operation. But, you are now saying your idle is stable!, that is strange!

 

Whilst not for any other reason than to eliminate any strange effect, I wouldn't hesitate in fitting a new set of standard Iridium spark plugs NGK  IMR9D-9H's, see if that helps. If that doesn't change anything you can always reuse your old plugs in the future.

 

Good luck. Keep us posted.

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Sure sounds like fuel to me too, having fought this in multiple vehicles. 

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