Speed Bleeders

[Skids]

Which one?

 

For a 2001 VFR800, the cheapest I can find in the UK are:

 

Goodyear M8 x 1.25 £14.03 each = £84.18 for 6

 

or

 

Chinese stainless steel M8 x 1.25 £11.36 for twin pack = £34.08 for 3 twin packs

 

So pay the significant extra cost for Goodyear or the cheaper and stainless Chinese ones?

 

Any thoughts or experiences from anyone who's used them?

 

I'm intending to replace all the major bolts with SS (fairing, caliper, possibly engine too) so I was hoping for SS speed bleeders as well to match.

[bmart]

I ran them on my bike back in the day, but they never accomplished much for me. I run stock ones now and don't waste time on the open/close technique. Bleeding is fast. The brake issues are usually dirty pistons not allowing the pad to apply enough pressure or holding it on place making constant heat. If you cna't move it with your little finger...it needs to be cleaned (Simple Green w/toothbrush and rince). 

[Dutchy]

I'd recommend looking at Stahlbus as an alternative if you want special valves

 

I've had them Speedbleeders and they work fine. BUT....

after using them a couple of times, the "sealant"needs to be re-applied. This involves taking them out, clean, re-apply sealant and "bake" in an oven.

BUT 2.0....    the stuff does not keep well inside its wee bottle and dries....

Finding a source in the EU proved fruitless...

 

 

I now use one of these with "normal"valve and a re very happy with it.

 

https://www.louis-moto.co.uk/artikel/brake-bleed-valve-with-hose/10002558

 

 

[Skids]

26 minutes ago, Dutchy said:

I'd recommend looking at Stahlbus as an alternative if you want special valves

 

I've had them Speedbleeders and they work fine. BUT....

after using them a couple of times, the "sealant"needs to be re-applied. This involves taking them out, clean, re-apply sealant and "bake" in an oven.

BUT 2.0....    the stuff does not keep well inside its wee bottle and dries....

Finding a source in the EU proved fruitless...

 

 

I now use one of these with "normal"valve and a re very happy with it.

 

https://www.louis-moto.co.uk/artikel/brake-bleed-valve-with-hose/10002558

 

 

 

Thanks m8.

 

Does that still enable single-person bleeding? I'd rather avoid the complicated dance moves required when Mrs Skids is called in to help when using the standard method.

[FJ12Ryder]

I've used the Speedbleeders and like them a lot. Can't comment on the sealant coming off.

 

You might want to rethink the SS bolts in critical parts like brake calipers, as, generally speaking, they aren't as strong as a good Grade 5 bolt. And they

are more likely to seize up in some applications. JMO anyway.

[DannoXYZ]

Bleeder bolts aren't exactly structural item dealing with high forces, so stainless should be fine. Factory ones are some sort of pot-metal that gets rounded off really easily.

 

Don't need sealant on threads, factory ones don't have 'em and they don't leak. Seal is done with conical tip. 

 

TIP- don't unscrew bleeders, factory or spring-loaded types more than 1/4-1/3rd turn. Just enough to let fluid flow and that's it.

[JZH]

Speedbleeders need the sealant on the threads because they (attempt to) maintain an hermetic seal after the seal created by the conical seat is removed.  People say they work, despite their method of maintaining the seal being mechanically dubious.  I've never seen the need (my every-tenth-year brake bleeding regimen doesn't require such Herculean efforts).

 

But if you must, get the Chinese cheapies.  It's just a hollow M8 threaded bolt--how could they screw that up?  

 

Ciao,

[FJ12Ryder]

Don't forget the spring loaded ball inside that hollow threaded bolt. 🙂

 

To me it's easy to use the Speedbleeders, not much of a "Herculean effort", 🙂

Normal bleeding, you loosen the bleeder screw squeeze the lever tighten the bleed screw, now repeat until done.

Speedbleeder bleeding, loosen the Speedbleeder screw and pump the lever. No need to retighten like a normal bleeder screw

between pumps of the lever.

Easy peasy.

[Skids]

21 minutes ago, FJ12Ryder said:

Don't forget the spring loaded ball inside that hollow threaded bolt. 🙂

 

To me it's easy to use the Speedbleeders, not much of a "Herculean effort", 🙂

Normal bleeding, you loosen the bleeder screw squeeze the lever tighten the bleed screw, now repeat until done.

Speedbleeder bleeding, loosen the Speedbleeder screw and pump the lever. No need to retighten like a normal bleeder screw

between pumps of the lever.

Easy peasy.

And much easier when bleeding the rear brakes as you don't have to keep swapping sides of the bike every pump. 

[bmart]

3 hours ago, FJ12Ryder said:

Normal bleeding, you loosen the bleeder screw squeeze the lever tighten the bleed screw, now repeat until done.

I used to do this until I realized it was completely unnecesary...so I stopped. This is what made the Speedbleeders unnecessary (for me). 

[mello dude]

I like Speedbleeders in spots, (agree, everyday normal bleeding) but not if you have a paticularly stubborn bleed it job from a new dry system. 

I just went thru a crazy stubborn fill it and bleed on a project, and ended up using a reverse fill/bleed push up into the system to get it done. SBs are a no go there. 

 

Also for an alternate, I have this Motion Pro thingy, works pretty good. I even used it on my cars. 

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0143

 

On the SB sealant thing, at times I just wipe a thin layer of permatex in the threads, does fine... 

 

It seems like the difficult stuff is on newer projects, and it helps to have an understanding of bleeding styles --- gravity. pressure, vacumn, reverse... 

---I know I'm probably preaching to the choir in this place, the tech experience on this board is huge....

(Over all, I frickn hate bleeding brakes! )

 

Cheers and beers all

 

 

 

[bmart]

I'm not a big MotionPro fan, but used this the other day on a friend's bike (his tool too) and it worked fine. Still, a solution without a problem, IMHO. 

[mello dude]

46 minutes ago, bmart said:

I'm not a big MotionPro fan, but used this the other day on a friend's bike (his tool too) and it worked fine. Still, a solution without a problem, IMHO. 

Yeah, I don't get those things...you have to have one for each bleeder nut size.....

-Not really a MP fan either, but once in awhile something comes out useful....

[Wald]

Maybe I am too old fashioned,  I never saw the need for speedbleeders. Motorcycles are small enough where two hands are enough (IMHO)

On cars, Mrs needs to assist. I have tried the vacuum pump device in the past but did not see any advantage in it either. These are my 2 cents.

[ShipFixer]

4 hours ago, mello dude said:

Also for an alternate, I have this Motion Pro thingy, works pretty good. I even used it on my cars. 

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0143

 

 

Ordered the last available from Amazon, thanks for pointing it out!

[ShipFixer]

1 hour ago, Wald said:

Maybe I am too old fashioned,  I never saw the need for speedbleeders. Motorcycles are small enough where two hands are enough (IMHO)

On cars, Mrs needs to assist. I have tried the vacuum pump device in the past but did not see any advantage in it either. These are my 2 cents.

They make it a little more error proof.  They do need a little bit of sealant of some sort on the threads as @JZH points out.  But since I usually do not have a helper in my garage, they keep me from needing someone else and needing other hands, and they're cheap so...I've installed them throughout.  

 

I am able to bleed my VFR by myself, this just makes it less of a PITA.

[FJ12Ryder]

5 hours ago, mello dude said:

I like Speedbleeders in spots, (agree, everyday normal bleeding) but not if you have a paticularly stubborn bleed it job from a new dry system. 

I just went thru a crazy stubborn fill it and bleed on a project, and ended up using a reverse fill/bleed push up into the system to get it done. SBs are a no go there. 

 

Also for an alternate, I have this Motion Pro thingy, works pretty good. I even used it on my cars. 

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0143

 

On the SB sealant thing, at times I just wipe a thin layer of permatex in the threads, does fine... 

 

It seems like the difficult stuff is on newer projects, and it helps to have an understanding of bleeding styles --- gravity. pressure, vacumn, reverse... 

---I know I'm probably preaching to the choir in this place, the tech experience on this board is huge....

(Over all, I frickn hate bleeding brakes! )

 

Cheers and beers all

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree that Speedbleeders don't work that great, or actually not at all, on an empty system. I have a Mity-Vac, and I've actually had a couple bleeders not leak

air past the threads over the years, and that thing worked slick. But 99.9% of the time air leaks past the threads, and just make a PIA job, a major PIA job. 🙂

[DannoXYZ]

I've had best luck with Earl's Solo-bleed valves. Seals at tip of screw with spring-loading so air from threads can't get past it.

 

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/brake-bleeders/product-line/earls-performance-solo-bleed-brake-bleeders

[raYzerman]

SpeedBleeders are great, order them direct.  Correct they won't work with an empty system and not very well with a vac tool.  I fill first mostly letting gravity do its job.  Mixed results with vac tools, I always finish off the conventional way.  You will (should) need to use thread sealer on conventional bleeders also, even grease works, some use Teflon tape.

 

I keep reading how many have problems bleeding Honda linked systems..... the secret is, once you have everything cleaned up, bleed the system per the manual.  Then, every year, do a quick bleed, it doesn't take much to have fresh fluid, just a few ounces.  Do that with every bike you own.  You'll prevent all your problems and shouldn't have to re-live your nightmares again for a very long time.  Proportioning valve already has a special bleeder screw with an o-ring, no need to change that one.  Hang your rear caliper high when bleeding.

[stuartb3502]

An alternative suggestion which worked for me and is considerably cheaper…try one of those one way valves in a pipe in combination with a vacuum bleeder.
 

The one way valve I got is no longer available, but it looks like they’re all pretty similar, e.g.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenxnmy-Bleeder-Clutch-Bleeding-Motorcycle/dp/B08ZY1ZY71/

 

Less than £10, only on the bike when you’re actually using them (why carry around multiple speed bleeders permanently when you use them once in a blue moon and then only one at a time?). Makes sense for race bikes, perhaps.

 

Yes, reviews on these are a highly mixed bag, but it doesn’t cost much to try.

 

I used a vacuum bleeder with it (again cheap to get one of the many lookalikes in cases on you know where <£20).

 

In my experience (I see similar from other VFR owners on here), the vacuum bleeder is only any good for starting the process/pulling fluid. I could never get it to seal/work well enough that when trying to bleed, air just went back and forth in the tubing. I had this tool first and was at the point of throwing it in the bin.

 

But if you then switch to the one way valve, I found it worked very well and easily. I did full fluid swap on front and rear and proportioning valve and clutch system solo without any real issues. The only mod I made is to have something to hold the hose on the bleed nipple (e.g. small hose clamp just lightly tightened).  
 

I had some previous limited experience of bleeding on other bikes and cars using traditional approach, but was dreading the VFR brakes from all the comments.
 

The trick is the combination of the two tools as neither work well enough on their own.
 

I followed the Haynes manual order of doing things using these tools and it worked well.  Small caveat that this was on a 5th gen. I understand that the 6th gen system is a bit different (not looked into that), so perhaps there’s something which makes this approach less useful, but I can’t think why at the moment.