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Lost rear sprocket whle riding.


VFR4Lee

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22 minutes ago, Auspanglish said:

Food for thought?

Yes, but it doesn't taste good.

Thanks nonetheless. :comp13:

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Sorry for your misfortune.  :sad:  There was a thread about a year ago with this same issue - IIRC on a 6th gen.  Same thing - just going down the road and the rear sprocket departed.  He was lucky enough to not have any case damage.  Like yours - nothing gave away the cause - somehow the nut backed off and the sprocket, cover and cush drive were just gone.  Hopefully this can be fixed an you'll be back on the road soon. 

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Wow no one mentioned you might have lost your rear wheel !  The only thing holding it in the hub is the brake caliper & associated fittings !

 

You lost the cush AFTER you lost the axle nut, once it had departed there is NOTHING holding the hub on & due to the shape of the cush rubbers they will push the two halves apart & hey presto.

 

If a bike EVER loses drive or locks up, you should pull the cluth in & coast to a stop immediately, stop the engine then inspect. The "fiddling about with the shifter" is probably what destroyed the case, the steel chain retainer in front of the front sprocket will contain the chain briefly.

 

Hope you get it sorted.

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He said it felt only like it jumped out of gear. Sort of natural to put it back into gear. I honestly think maybe the chain was worn out. Either stretched or several stiffened links to where it start to climb up the sprocket. I will bet the sprocket and hub imploded under the stress of comression from the chain becoming super tight and the suspension hamering it tighter. The nut would have nothing to hold to if the hub was collapsed and would effectively be loose.

I just did sprockets and chain on my FZ1. Last adjustment I found the lowest spot of sagging and adjusted it. When I tightened it all back up and turned the wheel by hand it locked up under load from the chain climbing the sprocket teeth. I knew I was dealing with an older chain so called it quits and ordered all new stuff. 

A stock 530 chain on steel sprocket can create some awesome destructive forces. 

I think it can be fixed and if any one on here has some spare parts they would donate for that rear hub assembly we may be able to help Lee out. 

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I know it does no good to speculate, but at this point what else is there to do? :D That's why I asked if he could find the parts. I'd love to know if the hub was whole or shattered. Whole would suggest the nut departed first. I just can't understand how that would happen if no one had ever touched it. If the hub broke, then the chain may have caught it and wound it off. 

Just for fun, you could take the opportunity to buy a '14 five lug axle and wheel and have something different!

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8 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Wow no one mentioned you might have lost your rear wheel !  The only thing holding it in the hub is the brake caliper & associated fittings !

Also gunged up grease. With the sprocket carrier and all else removed it is sometimes very hard to remove the axle from the bearing carrier.

 

8 hours ago, Mohawk said:

You lost the cush AFTER you lost the axle nut, once it had departed there is NOTHING holding the hub on & due to the shape of the cush rubbers they will push the two halves apart & hey presto.

If the sprocket carrier was pushed sideways, off the axle splines, the chain would have eaten through the chain guard and also would have to significantly increase in length. 

It is the third time I have seen this happen here on VFRD and would sure like to have some clue as to what is the cause.

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This is totally different than I pictured happened. A few years ago a VFRW member had posted how his sprocket bolts had come undone and the bolts actually started cutting into his swing-arm (2nd Gen VFR). According to the post, he used the correct amount of torque as he used hin mini sledge hammer to tighten them. This lead to the term used over there "use a torque hammer"!

 

Glad you didn't have a worse experience Lee but wow! That's something that's going to stick in my mind for a while. I'm going to have to be more diligent on doing my pre-ride inspection. It's saved me a few times, mostly with low tire pressure i.e. nail in the tire and a backed out bolt or two.

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2 hours ago, V4 Rosso said:

Also gunged up grease. With the sprocket carrier and all else removed it is sometimes very hard to remove the axle from the bearing carrier.

 

If the sprocket carrier was pushed sideways, off the axle splines, the chain would have eaten through the chain guard and also would have to significantly increase in length. 

It is the third time I have seen this happen here on VFRD and would sure like to have some clue as to what is the cause.

If you over tighten a chain on a standard swingarm bike, the sprocket is much bigger and bolted much more substantial stuff and the chain gives out first. 

Maybe the cast aluminum in our rear assemblies aren't aging well? Or just more susceptible to cracks and breaks?

Also agree on your other points. Getting the axle out on purpose is tough enough! I'm sure it would be pretty difficult to remove the hub with the chain on, as well. 

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I took time out today to look for the parts, no luck. I would like to know the cause.

Don't know I want to go out in the sun after work to clean it up in 90 degree heat.

It's going to have to wait a bit in any case.

The back wheel btw, seems to be held on just fine by its 4 lug nuts.

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I would suggest that everyone check their axle nuts frequently. I recently found mine had backed off nearly a full turn. Fortunately all I had to do was re-torque, and stake. 

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16 minutes ago, VFR4Lee said:

The back wheel btw, seems to be held on just fine by its 4 lug nuts.

I think you misunderstood. When the left side axle nut is removed, there is NOTHING designed to hold the axle in the hub. The only parts stopping it departing are the rear brake caliper mounting bracket circlip & the torque arm, neither of which is designed to take side loading. If you induced a hard side loading, like going through a chicane or a flip flop turn, the wheel could depart stage right, with the 4 lug nuts tight & the whole axle attached !!!

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13 hours ago, VFR Capt.Bob said:

I just did sprockets and chain on my FZ1. Last adjustment I found the lowest spot of sagging and adjusted it. When I tightened it all back up and turned the wheel by hand it locked up under load from the chain climbing the sprocket teeth.

 

That was your problem you used the WRONG technique !

 

You are supposed to find the TIGHTEST part of the chain then adjust with that part on the lower run clearance, that guarantees that ALL of the chain will never be tighter than the tightest part. By adjusting to the loosest part you will either lock up or overload the bearings in the drive shaft or sprocket/cush, more so during suspension compression.

 

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2 hours ago, Mohawk said:

I think you misunderstood. When the left side axle nut is removed, there is NOTHING designed to hold the axle in the hub. The only parts stopping it departing are the rear brake caliper mounting bracket circlip & the torque arm, neither of which is designed to take side loading. If you induced a hard side loading, like going through a chicane or a flip flop turn, the wheel could depart stage right, with the 4 lug nuts tight & the whole axle attached !!!

 

OK, I did not quite follow that before. Now you make me worry about rolling it out to the street for degreasing.

I'm sure not doing it in the garage or driveway.

I have half a mind to unload it to someone who wants a project, because I have enough things to do.

Yes, I have half a mind. :wacko:

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If you wanted to take it out on purpose, with the swing arm off the bike with wheel and brake parts removed, you'd wonder why it was secured with a nut. 

I'd love the project, but you're a continent away...

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Some of the parts on the rear wheel diagram are shown as not available. Even if they were it looks like several hundred dollars of parts. Bought new. Fak.  :comp13:

 

http://www.servicehonda.com/parts/lookup#/Honda/VFR800FIAC_(98)_MOTORCYCLE%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_JH2RC461-WM000001/REAR_WHEEL/VFR800FI-98-JPN-AC/2Y14MBGWE1AMBG4F1600AA

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Used bits would be the way to go just for the cost.

Honestly I am kind of bummed out.

Had this bike and loved it since Feb 1999 and about 2,000 miles on the odo. :mellow:

I will have to clean it off to get a better look.

It might be time to say goodbye. :unsure:

 

I see good deals on 8th gen 800's.

But I have 2 other bikes that are needing service, and just bought a car last Feb. It will have to wait.

 

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Glad you are safe Lee...I am about 70 miles away from 100,000 miles on a rogue trip up to South Dakota. .will check mine in the morning at the hotel.  2002 here.

 

Bill

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With the chain on the sprocket, the sprocket carrier is held onto the axle by the chain.  In other words, with everything in place (other than the nut) you cannot ordinarily get the carrier to clear the end of the axle.  But, with no nut holding it together I could see the play in the cush rubbers allowing the outer part of the carrier to skew and thus be destroyed in short order.  Too bad we'll never know for sure what happened. 

 

I recall once trying to find a lost hubcap on a lonely stretch of 101...the freeway seems much longer when you're on foot!

 

Ciao,

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It will be fine to wheel about, just don't be surprised if you hear the rear brake rubbing.  If the axle has never been serviced, then it may be lightly seized in the left side bearings !

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Couple close ups of what's left at the rear wheel. Maybe will shed some light on it.

Are there bolts sheared off here? :unsure:

101_3229.JPG

101_3228.JPG

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No, just casting marks.

It's difficult to describe the rear hub if you haven't seen one. That's all cast aluminum and there are rubber bits that fit between them and similar wedges on the outer hub. The drive sprocket pulls the chain, which pulls the rear sprocket, which is bolted to the outer hub. That's all metal to metal contact, so then the outer hub acts on the rubber cush drive which acts on those wedges you see to drive the rear axle. The idea being to dampen the forces involved.

My personal theory is that because cast metal is very brittle, the tightness of the chain caused it to shatter as it tightened and loosened as the swingarm moved up and down. It went away, and the chain moving over the nut unwound it as well.  

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Really appreciate your thoughts Kevin.

I've seen cush drives on other bikes with the rubber bits while changing tires with a friend, CBR comes to mind.

Never took this one apart. I pay mechanics to do that stuff, not my forte. :wink:

 

I will clean the front sprocket area and try to assess the damage better. Then I have a decision.

A> Repair it, probably only cost effective as a diy, and a medium big project, imho.

B> Part it out. Maybe a bigger project, but might get more cash.

C> Sell as is. Minimum hassle, minimum price.

 

All these options suck. I don't need a project.  :unsure:

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