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Found 95 results

  1. You want to upgrade your 6th gen with some 8th gen parts? Well here's your chance - totaled 8th gen going up for auction - https://www.copart.com/lot/39805397 It's seriously scraped but the damage does not appear too bad. If you win the auction I'll purchase the subframe
  2. Another rear shock thread

    Hi all first time poster but have been reading as much as I can for a while so please be gentle I have a 2006 VFR 800 Vtec ABS model, at the moment the bike is being stripped down/cleaned and upgraded as the person who had it before did not give it enough tlc and while it's soon going to be colder here in the UK I thought I should start now so it can be ready for the sun in the new year. I have been reading and hope am correct in saying a stock blackbird shock will fit in the 6th gen vfr however I have found a nearly new aftermarket OHLINS shock for a blackbird xx at a very good price. My question before committing to buying is would this fit into the VFR same as the standard blackbird shock or is this a no go? I hopefully have attached a photo of the blackbird shock if that helps at all. Any help would be appreciated and thanks is advance Regard Chris
  3. Was riding my 6th gen home this week, and stalled it out leaving a light. Twice. At different lights. WTF? As I was riding it afterward, it felt like the clutch lever now had a different engagement point. It didn't have the stronger pull it did earlier. It was weaker, felt like. All of this happened within a day of riding? I got home and looked around for anything odd like a missing lever bolt etc but it looks fine. Fluid is light and no leaks that I could see. Any thoughts?
  4. Hi, I have a Shindengen SH847 RR (the series MOSFET type). It is larger in all dimensions than the stock RR and the mounting holes are 100mm apart compared to the stock 80mm. The stock RR is in a good location but the new SH847 is certainly not a drop-in to the stocl location. Has anyone fitted one to a 6th Gen VFR? Any mounting suggestions?
  5. Engine cutting out randomly

    My '02 nearly left me stranded yesterday coming back from work. I was riding in the city at moderate speed when engine cut off completely without warning. I pulled over by the curb, put her back in neutral and tried to restart: the starter would crank but the engine wouldn't start at first. That's when I noticed the ABS light was flashing. I was about to call a tow truck when I tried to start again and this time it did. I rode for about 5 minutes before it cut off again. I noticed the fuel injection warning light coming on, but it went away after riding for a bit. So I managed to start again and then rode for about 10-15 minutes before it happened one last time (about 5 blocks from home), then I made it home. I'm obviously going to take it to a mechanic early next week, but just wondering if any others have had a similar problem, and what was the issue. Except for the ABS light flashing, all other conditions seemed normal: Engine temperature, oil / coolant levels, etc. The bike is an '02 with just a bit over 67,000 km on the clock. According to the maintenance log I keep (and the service manual) my spark plugs should still be good for another 15,000 km (I replaced them all 20,000 km ago). The only maintenance I've skipped is the second valve clearance check (7,000 km overdue) but only because it's a very expensive job to get done. For everything else I've followed the service manual like gospel. If you have any idea what this could be, let me know! EDIT: Forgot to mention that this happened over a 20-ish km commute.
  6. Class Reunion

    It has been a very busy year and I haven't had time until this past weekend to roll all of the VFRs out for a class reunion picture. It was a gorgeous day out anyways, so why not snap some pics before heading out on a ride? The red 5th gen is an 2001 with about 5,800 miles, purchased in 2012 from the original owner and he only had 750 odd miles on the bike. It was all stock minus a Two Bros slip on that I swapped out for a Akropovic. Mostly, I have kept this bike original and stock with the exception of DMR front fork tuning, an Ohlins shock, stainless lines, the 98-99 cat less headers and updating the charging system. Oh and of course an 8 spoke wheel powdercoated black. The silver VFR is my "Gen 5.5 Hybrid"- basically the front half of a 5th gen VFR with gear driven cams (as they all should be), with the back half of a 6th gen with the OEM bag mounts and underseat exhaust. That makes it a bit easier to see the 8 spoke wheel. My bodywork guy also changed the headlight shape to mimic dual headlights and it really does bridge the gap between the odd single headlights that Honda was using in the late 90s (Superhawk, CBR 900, VFR) to the next generation in 2002 with the VTEC and dual headlights. There is a good picture showing the front of the bikes and how just the subtle change really altered the look of the front fairing. Originally, being 2000 model, it was yellow, and I planned on keeping it yellow. But when the tank needed to be swapped with a 6th gen to fit the new subframe and seat correctly, I found a brand new 2003(?) silver for $200. The silver looked great and I decided to go in that direction instead. This was my third VFR, and the project began because as much as I enjoy riding my '01 I didn't want to put a ton of miles on it and wanted to keep it mostly stock. So a second 5th gen was needed of course. The original owner had about 7,000 miles on it when he sold it to me in the fall of 2014. It was on the lift for over a year as a project and now has almost 12k miles on it. I am very happy with the way the project worked out, even if it was more expensive and more time/ stress consuming than originally planned. But what project isn't, right? The RWB Anniversary was my second VFR after I decided I loved my low mileage 5th gen so much that I wanted to keep the miles off of it, and have more of a sport touring platform for killing miles. It was purchased in the fall of 2013 with only 1500 miles on it from the original owner, who only added Heli bars and was getting out of riding. Besides having one of the best replica paint jobs ever IMHO, it has been a great bike overall and after adding quite a few "farkles" (especially swapping out the seat for a Saddlemen and the stock screen) is a very capable sport touring bike that I would still put up against the newer generations of ST bikes. The white wheels are a PITA to keep clean, but just look right. The stock wheels didn't look bad, but the white makes the bike look lighter. I am often asked which is my favorite. That's tough to answer, as each has its own strengths and weaknesses. If I had to sell any of them off, the 6th gen would go first, that's probably the best way to answer it. IMHO it just doesn't have the "soul" of the 5th gens, likely due to the VTEC and chain driven cams. Neither one of changes bother me particularly - I just personally prefer the feel and sound of the 5th gen motor and even the handling (not stock however). My wife told me the other day when I rolled them out that I have a "VFR problem". I said, "hell yes I do. I don't have a 1st gen, 2nd gen, 3rd gen, 4th gen or 8th gen VFR!!!" All kidding aside, there will be a 4th gen in the group someday. I have always loved their NR inspired look and NACA ducts. I had always drooled over the 3rd gens sitting next to the RC30 at the local Honda dealer, but the 4th generation was the first VFR that I ever rode. It sealed my insanity for them, even though I was married to Triumph at the time. The Sprint and Trophy were always too under-developed, overweight, crude and not as cool as the VFRs -to me at least. Triumph America borrowed a '96 VFR 750 from a local dealer for "testing" before the Sprint 955i was to be launched, and I think I alone put over 2,000 miles on it. Our then CEO ripped me a new one for riding it so much. Man was he pissed. Oh well, it was worth it...
  7. R/R issue or worse?

    Hey Guys, I'm hoping to order the necessary parts to fix my bike shortly, but figured I might consult those with more experience first as this is the first electrical issue I have truly attempted to troubleshoot. I have tried to narrow things down from the numerous other threads posted relating to the issue, but additional input would be great. My bike is a new to me (2 months) 2003 VFR800 with a PC3 and Two Bros exhaust with 25k miles. The harness recall has been done by the previous owner. I rode the bike nearly every day roughly 50 miles round trip for about the past two months, but last week it would barely start on the way to work. Upon leaving to go home at the end of the day, it was dead. I got a jump from a co-worker (car off) and proceeded to hurry home. It died on me 3 separate times, but fortunately I was moving fast enough to bump start each time. The fist time it died, I had only been riding about 5 minutes. If I kept the RPM's up, it seemed to run decently. I proceeded to charge the battery on a tender and test it. Right after pulling it off the bike, it was at 10.26V. By morning it seemed ok as it charged up to 13.1V and when reconnecting the tender, would jump up to 14.4V before settling back down to 13.1V. After leaving it unplugged all day, it dropped to about 12.96V and held steady there for the rest of the night. I had it tested by a local auto parts store and they confirmed it was fully charged and seemed to be in good health. I started to go through "The Drill" and first suspected the stator. The resistance between all the phases was consistent at 0.7 ohm's and they all had no continuity when each was tested to ground, so that seems to check out. I then checked each phase's AC voltage and got 19-20 at idle for each one and then around 60 when revved to 5k or so. So that test seemed to indicate thestator was ok as well. I then began to suspect the R/R and moved to check the voltage of the battery. At rest with the key off, it read 12.91V. With the key on, it dropped to around 12.3V, and after starting the bike and letting it idle, it would hang around 12.2V. When I would rev the bike, the voltage would drop across the terminals. At 4k rpm's, I read 12.16V. This would indicate a R/R issue correct? I know you can check the diodes to be certain, but the fact that the voltage at idle is lower than what it should be (14V ish) and with the stator seeming to check out, this would lead me to think it's the R/R. However, as many indicate the problem is much less of an issue with the 6th gens compared to the 5th, I thought I'd double check. Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks
  8. Hello from MN, Looks like another great resource for these bikes so may as well join in on the fun! I have been dreaming of having a VFR since I started riding 6 years ago ('82 Maxim 1100, no not recommended for a first bike, but yes it is quite fun). The VFR really does have a lot to offer, unique single-sided swing arm, under tail exhaust, unique V4 engine, do-it all ergos, Honda reputation to eat up the miles, the list goes on... I've had the bike for about a month now and really do love it. Only thing i'm not really particular about is the grips on the bike so some new Progrip dual-density pieces are on the way. Without further delay, here's my bike: 2004 VFR800 ABS in Asphalt Black. The OEM bags are not asphalt, but gloss black, guess the PO wasn't able to find matching ones when they were purchased a couple years ago, matches pretty decently so no big deal there. Oh and this forum is awesome because it has this face Just so I actually use the face for good reason... This is what the VTEC crossover/part of the revs makes me do ... good thing I have a tinted visor so people can't see my goofy grin when I hit that part of the powerband. -Sam
  9. Corbin Beetle bags on an 02 VFR: Answering a question that no one asked. Ever.
  10. Should have got a VFR sooner!!

    Hello all. Just recently discovered VFR's. Got a great deal on a 6th gen. I've had many bikes but never a VFR. Really liking it so far. Perfect combo of sport and comfort. Sounds like a V8 sports car also. Awesome! Really hate that this forum has no classifieds? Thats got to be first.
  11. Bar risers from Germany

    Still get Thurn's newletter, so here the news that +23mm bar risers are available for the 3rd/4th Gen RC36 (1990-1997). As well as 5th gen RC46 (1998-2001) and 6th gen VFR 800 V-Tec, RC46/2 (2002-2012) for which he already had obtained TÜV approval previously. No need for longer hydraulic lines or modifying the upper cowl. Tince the forks themselves are angled, the bars will also slightly come a bit more towards you. Price is 79 euro + shipping (a copy of the TÜV document is +49; but you'd only perhaps need this if you are in Germany) info@thurn-motorsport.de ++ 49 9352 6734 PS: I donot hold any shares or bonus scheme with Gerhard :-)
  12. After a mysterious clatter from my bike, that wasn't cured by replacing/servicing the CCT's I decided to swap out the engine as I had been offered one at a reasonable price. To cut a long story short after a lot of wrangling, cutting and swearing I have now got the engine in. It turns over but won't start. I pulled one of the spark plugs and I don't seem to get a spark. I rested the anode against the cylinder head to get an earth, but I can't see any spark. I've swapped the plugs from the other engine as these are known to be good but still get nothing. I am a bit confused as there is nothing different from the other engine, the only electrical part that moved with the engine is the Pulse Generator. just for information. The bike does have HISS fitted. when I turn on the ignition I have to press the button on the fob to get the 'FI' light to come on. The fuel pump primes, or at least sounds like it does although the plugs don't seem to be getting wet. I have tried using easy start down the throttle bodies but get nothing, but as I can't see a spark I am working on that angle first. I am not used to electronics on bikes but am handy with an AVO, is there a test procedure for testing the Pulse generator output. if this is not the culprit, does anyone have any fault finding tips. Jumper the stand switch, Kill switch testing et'c. thanks in advance. Phill.
  13. I've been thinking that the New Members section of the forum is perhaps not the best place to keep my hybrid conversion and restoration thread updated, so I have decided to move it here instead. Here's the background for anyone who hasn't seen it yet:
  14. About a month ago a lovely young lady helped me customize some bodywork (clutch side) with her Prius. After doing some creative ABS bodywork, everything is fine except my tach doesn't work. When I say everything else is fine, I mean solid voltage at the battery (onboard voltmeter reading 14.2-14.3 as always), no FI light, speedo works, fuel gauge works, blinkers, haven't tested the horn yet, so far (and this is after about 12 miles of errands) everything is behaving as expected. Except . . . the tach. It would jump around under deceleration, would be pretty solid under acceleration. This was first the first few miles. After that, it to would stay at 0. It did have a bit of activity at the end of my journey for a few seconds. A bump lured it into action for a brief moment, and then back to zero. It acts for the all the world like I have a bad tach cable. But I don't have any tach cable. So I'm guessing a pinched and unhappy wire? What should I be looking for? Color and location. Oh, and no pressure, tomorrow I'm riding to SLO, and then up to Monterey, and then Sacremento, and then home. Rain is in the forecast, so speeds will be "prudent", but it would be nice to have things working right. I travel with butt connectors and strippers, so any help any time is appreciated.
  15. The cold light of day.

    Hi all and welcome to my blog hope you all enjoy..... So its been 12 years since owning a motorcycle and now I have a well used and reasonable well looked after 2005 Pearl Heron Blue VFR800. I've only test ridden a few liter sport bikes once I got off my provisional license way back when but this is my first time owning something other then a 250cc. You'll have to forgive the no doubt sometimes novice remarks and just remember I'm just a fellow enthusiast not a MotoGP rider . After close to a week and close enough to 200klms under my belt on it I've had time to notice things in some more detail. I can not nor am complaining with a bike that cost $3200 Aussie bucks that is in this condition but there are thing that need to change at some point and thing I may need to get use too, especially considering I've been out of the saddle for so long. For the very first photos i took of her please check out my post "G'day from Perth" in the welcome section, there are a couple of camera phone photos in there. For the riding part the first thing that got my attention is the grips, they feel a little thin to me and after about an hour I seemed to be getting a bit of vibration through the bars but it only effected my right hand really. My left leg was feeling a bit cramped at around the hour mark as well. Throttle transitions from off/on at lower revs seems to be a bit of a dice roll in regards to how smooth it will be. Need to look at the clutch take-up/friction point as it feels very late and embarrassingly i maybe riding it a little at take off ( Its been a long time...) Finally the older orange/amber indicators annoy me only because I've seen the updated ones from the 06/07 on-wards models and the pair valve is starting to grate me a little hearing in open and close. I am kind of happy about the noise/note from the rider point of view with the bike but standing next to it the factory system doesn't do the V4 justice. Loving the noise (although muted some what) especially when VTEC kicks in, also finding the bike surprisingly easy to ride. I like the combined braking and the stability of the bike in general, to me its like a mirror in that if you ride lazy it will feel a little on the big/heavy side like it is lazy bike it self but once you start to apply force in your riding it starts to shrink under you and come alive. My very limit previous experience/memory's are that even the liter sport bikes I test rode and a couple of mates 600s didn't feel so broad in there character. After the couple of rides I've had now i'm super glad to be back on a bike, what i was missing in getting nods and waves from friendly motorcyclists and really happy to get the model I've wanted for quite sometime. Below is a photo I took parked at Mosman Park on Curtin avenue earlier this afternoon, Indian Ocean in the back ground. It was a beautiful day 26*c nothing but blue skies, 64% Humidity and a cool breeze coming straight of the Indian Ocean. (photo was on the phone..) Cheers.
  16. G'day from Perth

    Hi everybody, New member and new VFR800 owner here. Just picked up a 2005 model this evening, no mods and clean except for a small hand full of scratches on the right hand side. Now two owners ago it was dropped off the stand supposedly, the owner I bought it off was such a good bloke I feel a little bad about the price I got it for. Near enough to 95,000klms on the clock, seems like it runs as new. Still some meat on the tires but they are left overs from a race/coaching (read super sticky) meet the previous own does on a regular basis as a coach/trainer. Generator, voltage regulator and chain changed about 12 months ago. Previous owner was also a qualified mechanic and it seems the bike has been really looked after and loved by the previous owner I purchased it from. I haven't really ridden much in the last 12-14 years and haven't owned any bike over a 250 before now embarrassingly. Since I saw this models release when I first started riding back in 2001/2002ish I have pined for one on and off since. Riding home confirmed this was a good purchase for me. Quality forums/site are worth so much value so that's why I'm here, everything looks good and the people seem good from what I've looked at. and seen. Not too mention so helpful when sounding idea for personalisation's and maintenance. I hope I can be of some use and can contribute too. Sorry photo quality is not up to scratch, just a couple of quick shoots when I got her home. Cheers.
  17. Note: There are several versions of the mid-pipe for the 6th Gen Staintune exhaust. The hanger and shape may differ. Note 2: If your Staintune exhaust is second hand, inspect the hanger mount-point on the mid-pipe for cracking. This is a common failure point and Staintune will repair/replace for free, or you can have a local welder take care of it (voids warranty). Note 3: Some Staintune systems for 6th gens are one piece. You can follow this guide, just know your mufflers are pre-attached. Remove Seat Disconnect license plate light connector. Remove four 10mm bolts. Bolts closest to the rear can be tight, gently pull upward on the light to provide better access. Remove two 12mm bolts. Pull license plate wire out of under-seat compartment. Remove license plate/light assembly. Loosen exhaust clamp. Loosen muffler hanger bolts. Both have 13mm nuts under the seat. Remove both hanger bolts. Be careful when removing the last bolt, as the exhaust will be able to drop down to the tire. Gently swivel off the exhaust, and remove. Remove the OEM lead gasket from the outlet pipe on the catalytic converter, as this is not needed. Wash your hands. Take a well earned beverage break and marvel at how heavy that stock exhaust is! Now, let's install the Staintunes! Remove rear most bolt on the right passenger foot-peg. Mount the Staintune mid-pipe, noting alignment with that passenger foot-peg bolt hole. Install provided longer bolt and nut to the passenger foot-peg. If you need one, it's a M8x55-1.25 bolt and matching nut. I replaced the other three passenger peg bolts to match since they were not a hex type. (M8x50-1.25, (2) M8x30-1.25) Tighten the exhaust clamp. Slide the left muffler onto the mid-pipe, and install / tighten the previously used hanger nut and bolt. Staintune text should be facing the outside of the bike. Do the same with the right muffler. Feed the license plate light wire back into the under-seat compartment. Reinstall the two 12mm bolts. Reinstall the four 10mm bolts. Reconnect license plate light connector. Reinstall the seat, start the bike, and enjoy!
  18. Hi guys, I have a problem that I can't figure out. I have a 2002 VFR that has 72,000 miles now. I had the whole engine replaced at 65,000 miles because I bought manual CCTs and I overtightened them and resulted with the Cam Chains snapping. So I replaced the engine with a 2004 VFR engine that only had 15,000 miles. Everything was great. But today, my battery died on me. Its my daily ride, so I cant seem to figure out what is going on. Things that you guys might think are problems had been changed already when I replaced the engine. I changed the stator, rectifier, VFRness, and battery. 1. Things that happen to me on a daily basis. I live in San Francisco, and I have to ride in the city everyday. After riding for about 20 minutes in stop and go traffic, the horn would get weaker and weaker to the point of not having sound. Mind you, the engine temp is always around 200-210F when I ride in the city. 2. Another thing that happens is the engine cutting out when I blip the throttle. That happens when I have the clutch pulled in and blipped to shift from 2nd to 1st. Anyway, its confusing for me because I have the parts that could've caused the electrical problems replaced already. Any input will be helpful to me. Thank you.
  19. Hello all, I experience pretty loud wind noise when riding my '02. At first I thought it was due to my previous, low-budget helmet, but I've recently upgraded to a better one (HJC RPHA ST, which is supposed to be on the quiet side from what I read) but the noise level seems to be similar. I'm 5'8'', my bike has the stock windshield, and I wear earplugs whenever I ride. From the bug splatter pattern, it looks like the wind is hitting me right in the visor or slightly above. Should I look for a taller windshield to deflect the wind above my head? Or a shorter one so it goes on my chest rather than my head? Or look into a laminar lip type spoiler? If you have experimented and have some advice, please let me know! Thanks!
  20. Hi All - I’ll try to make the story short… I bought a 02 VFR with 38k miles, and within a few weeks found out the engine was dead (Cylinder #3 all scratched inside, it seems something fell in there), and no CEL. Refused to let her die without a fight… so… Bought a 2006 engine from a crashed bike on Ebay (5k miles), and I’m installing it. (It’s a fine line between bravery and stupidity!) The bike had both O2 sensors unplugged, and no snorkel. I’m not sure what was the status of the PAIR valves or the flapper valve - I did not take off those parts, so I don’t know how it was. The bike had a PC-V on it (Power Commander V), and a Staintune exhaust. I sent the injectors to be cleaned and found injector #3 had 10% less flow than the others, but they are all fine now. Now that I’m re-assembling it, I’m wondering: -- Are there any electronics I need to update to have the 2006 engine running normally in the 2002 frame? Any adjustments? -- Should I re-install the PC-V? Why? -- Should I re-connect the O2 sensors? Why? -- Should I reconnect the PAIR or flapper? Why The objective is a nice reliable VFR without lean conditions. No track or racing it. I truly appreciate any and all opinions / advice – thank you in advance.
  21. Finally picked myself up a 6th Gen! I have wanted one for 4 or 5 years now. It's an '07 Anniversary edition. It has 48k miles on it. It's been on it's left side at least once but since I'm still relatively new that's ok with me. I'll probably get the plastic fixed and painted over one of these winters coming up. I'm not entirely sure what has been done to it. It has Leo Vince slip-ons. What's the point of two mufflers when the join right before them? Adjustable levers on both the clutch and brake. I don't see a name on them so they are probably cheapies but they seem to work. Carbon fiber front fender. Other than that it looks stock. I haven't delved to deeply yet though. It doesn't look like as if the previous owner had many passengers since he removed the rear pegs. I haven't ridden it much but so far I love it!
  22. Hi guys, I have a 2002 VFR 800 with 68000 miles. I had the CCTs replaced 8000 miles ago with manual CCTs. The ticking noise went away and everything was fine. Last 3 weeks, I noticed that my hands would get numb after riding on the highway for an hour. It happened every time. I didn't take any note of that but I did wonder why the engine had more vibration in the past few weeks. Today, I rode about 40 freeway miles and when I got to the exit near my house, I noticed a very loud clacking noise. Like Ducati dry clutch sound.. First thing I did was check the oil and it was fine, then since I was about 2 miles away from home, I kept riding with the clacking noise. Note that the noise is only audible at idle or low rpms. Then when I was half a mile away from home, I lost all the power from the engine and it failed to start. I managed to keep it moving by starting with my hand on the throttle. I managed to get home with the bike and that last half mile was weird because it didn't sound anything like a V4 engine anymore. But i got home smoothly. I suspect that the cam chain has jumped off.... Note that I replaced it 8000 miles ago.. What should I do guys?
  23. Hey everyone. I'm new to this forum and my VFR. Before I ask my question, is anyone else having problems with the search bar at the top right? I keep getting errors when I search content. I love my 2004, I've owned cruisers and sportsbikes but I've always wanted one of these and she really doesn't disappoint. I got her knowing that I would need to put lots of love into getting her up ship shape, 35K miles and owners who just didn't know better means that I've installed a new air filter, tires, brakes, racetech springs for the front (I'm a bit hefty at 250lbs), changed the oil and the brake/clutch fluids, ran a wire to charge my phone and now I'll be installing spark plugs next as they're coming up on 14k miles. During all this work the tank has been up a few times and I've noticed a black tube coming up from the left side of the engine and sitting on top of the rubber covering the head of the rear two cylinders. The tube ends in a white plastic piece and doesn't seem to have anywhere to connect to. Now the bike operates perfectly normally, considering all the maintenance that has been avoided (or maybe I'm just OCD and like project bikes). I don't have a picture, but I can probably take one tomorrow or this weekend if need be. Anyone know what that tube is? I have yet to get a service manual and I'd like to know what the hell its for.
  24. I Need Your Best Tips Here...

    I am changing out the entire wiring harness for my 6th gen. I've got everything disconnected I think, I just can't seem to sneak it out from beside the engine block and the frame. Do I cut the tape, and take the harness out in two pieces? Do I cut the tape on the new harness, and install it in two pieces then re-wrap it? are there more headaches in store for me? lol
  25. Looks like it's time for my 1st chain/rear sprocket swap on my 6th gen. On my other bikes, I usually swap out the countershaft sprocket every other time usually? Wondering if you guys do them both, each and every time or not? Also, I hear the OEM one has a rubber coating or something on it? Worth the extra $ to get the OEM one? $48 USD vs. about $15 for aftermarket. What's the rubber coating (or whatever it is) do for me anyhow? Thanks. I'm holding off on the order until I hear the WOTL.