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GreginDenver

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GreginDenver last won the day on December 25 2016

GreginDenver had the most liked content!

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About GreginDenver

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    Club Racer
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  • Location
    Denver
  • In My Garage:
    '99 VFR800 49-state
  1. I'm very thorough when I work on a motorcycle or car, here's what my 5th Gen looked like when I did the valves. So access to the cylinder heads wasn't a problem. The "special tools" I used? I used both of my torque wrenches (a normal one and a smaller one for tighter spaces), I used a black "Sharpie" marker pen to put marks on the cam gears to I'd know if they were reassembled/aligned properly after changing the shims, I used a electronic micrometer purchased at Harbor Freight (machinists always insist on hand-measuring things like valve shims, what they mean is that even if a valve shim has a size marked on it you should confirm the actual gnat's-ass measurement of the shim), I also used a camera to carefully take pictures of the cylinder head parts before I disassembled them, so I would have a reference to look at during reassembly. I replaced all of the rubber bits, didn't re-use any of the 18 year old O-rings or seals. Here's my results: All of my Exhaust Valves where perfectly within factory specification. All of the Intake Valves required adjustment, 3 were "out of tolerance", 4 were very close to "out of tolerance", and 1 was okay-ish but I still adjusted it. I used shims purchased at the parts counter of my local Honda Dealership. To be honest I don't know if they're actual Honda parts or Honda-certified or even Honda-approved. When I used the digital electronic Micrometer to check the sized of the shims I found that they aren't exactly the measurement that's printed on them (although they are consistent, i.e. all of the "182" size shims measured out the same on the Micrometer, as did all of the other size shims regardless of whether they were original to the bike or the ones I purchased here in Denver. Just as an example the "182" shims all measured out to exactly 1827 on the Micrometer, so they are really more of a "183" shim than a "182" shim).
  2. Also, VFRWorld.com is up and running. Here's my thread "Refurbishing my '99 5th Gen: http://vfrworld.com/threads/refurbishing-my-99-5th-gen.52488/ This is what I felt was necessary to bring an 18 year old bike back up to a high standard.
  3. You should get a copy of the VFR800 service manual, it contains an amazingly detailed description of the Honda PGM-FI system (Chapter 21, titled "Technical Features"). Just the fact that this chapter even exists is pretty amazing, most manufacturers prefer to keep as much of this information hidden as they can. I guess that when the 5th Gen came out Honda was concerned about getting people who were comfortable with carbs to buy a fuel injected motorcycle, so they "pulled back the curtain" in an effort to inform people as thoroughly as they could. This chapter of the VFR800 service manual (Ch. 21, "Technical Features") is a great read.
  4. There are no designed-in deficiencies to the 5th gen fuel injection system, I think it's a very good product. It's all solid-state sensors feeding information into a solid-state ECU, there's not a lot that can go wrong, but if the ECU loses contact with one of the sensors it (the ECU) will tell you by flashing a code on the "FI" light (you just look up the code in the owner's manual or service manual and simply remove and replace whichever sensor is causing the problem. But this is rare, the sensors are very durable). There's more plumbing running around the bike with an FI system than with carbs but that's okay. When I got my '99 I removed and cleaned the throttle body assembly and changed the fuel filter (located inside the fuel tank with the fuel pump). The 5th Generation of the VFR is divided into two sub-generations: The '98-'99 doesn't have a catalytic converter, while the '00-'01 has a catalytic converter. This makes the '00-'01 FI system just bit more complex to deal with.
  5. I don't remember the dash being a 5th gen issue, I thought the dash issue was a 6th gen problem (caused by a wiring harness grounding problem, factory recalled and corrected by replacing the big blue colored multi-connector to the dash). Beyond the Regulator/Rectifier issue (once again it's really not an R/R issue but yet another Honda connector/wiring issue) I can't think of anything that is a show-stopping factory-built-in deficiency in the 5th gen. What you're going to run into with a 5th gen is the simple fact that they are now in the 18 to 20 year-old range which means you're quite likely to end up with a bike that needs somewhere between a moderate amount and a hell of a lot of maintenance and refurbishment to bring it up to a high standard. Right now the VFRWorld.com forum is down for maintenance, but I have a pretty detailed thread of my recent refurbishment of my '99 VFR, bought it in December of '16 and went through it thoroughly. Lots of pictures and discussion on my "Refurbishing my '99 VFR" thread, I wish I could link you to it right now.
  6. If you want to borrow it that would be fine (just noticed you're located up in Longmont).
  7. I use the Morgan Carbtune. The unit itself has "Carbtune Pro" printed on the plastic case.
  8. I bought a '99 this past December. It was in really good condition but the original owner never did any of the more difficult bits of ongoing maintenance, to include things like checking/adjusting the valve shims. The bike had just short of 20k miles and just like yours it was a bit hard to start. Checking the valve clearances showed it needed a lot of new shim sizes. After correcting all the shims to get the gaps in specification (actually a fun job in my opinion) and synchronizing the starter valves it starts up right on the first press of the button.
  9. Are we talking about lines leaking or are we talking about leaking where the lines connect? If someone has over torqued and stripped out the connectors you might have a more delicate situation on your hands, not impossible to correct with careful application of Helicoils or Timeserts.
  10. A 1998 VFR800 is 19 years old now. Wondering about the condition of the water pump impeller? Any loss in efficiency at the water pump would be a problem in the overall heat-rejection equation. How quickly and how often each little molecule of coolant circulates through the engine and then through the cooling system make a big difference.
  11. Judging from these pictures I think maybe you've got him equaled or even out-gunned in the exhaust-sound category (that's a very minimal can you've got on your VFR).
  12. A cheap "Mechanic's Stethoscope" can really help with this sort of thing (here in the U.S. I bought one at Harbor Freight for a few dollars). Just like a doctor you put the earpieces in your ears and then touch the metal probe end to various parts/areas of the engine to listen. This is a way to zero-in on which engine component is making the noise. The Stethoscope allows you to be very specific about what part of the engine you're listening to. At idle engine speed you can even tell the difference between a noise that is occurring at crankshaft speed (matches the tachometer) and a noise that is occurring at camshaft speed (which is 1/2 the tachometer speed). Could be the sound of a corroded water pump impeller cavitating or a water pump bearing going bad, so you touch the probe to that area and listen. Could be a bearing in the clutch basket assembly ("throwout" bearing?), so you listen there. Could be something in one of the two cylinder heads, something valve-train related, so you listen there. and so on...
  13. This part of your description makes me think you've got a Sensor Problem of some sort. If you carefully read Chapter 21 (Titled: "Technical Features") of the Honda VFR800 FI Service Manual you'll learn that the Honda PGM-FI system is pretty complex and that it uses 2 separate fueling strategies for each individual cylinder, depending on where the engine is in its demand-vs.-RPM range. This chapter is really impressive to me because in it Honda reveals a lot of information that vehicle manufacturers usually keep hidden. When the engine is operating at lower RPM and partial throttle openings the PGM-FI system uses a fueling strategy that is very dependent on Intake Air Pressure measurement (compensating the basic fueling program based on the values reported by the Manifold Absolute Pressure, the Baro Sensor, the IAT sensor and the ECT sensor). The PGM-FI system's ECM chip contains a factory hard-coded fueling programing that was developed and optimized for a set of baseline parameters, probably including Sea Level atmospheric pressure, a "standard day" temperature and expected manifold pressures for any given RPM-Throttle Position combination (based on developmental testing of the engine). When the VFR's engine is operating the values obtained from this basic fueling array have to be modified (compensated) on-the-fly based on inputs from the various sensors. With the VFR's multiple sensor inputs this quickly becomes a complex and interdependent situation. When the RPMs are high(er) and the throttle is open wide the air pressure behavior of the VFR's intake system becomes very hard to measure so the PGM-FI system switches to a Throttle-Position based fueling strategy (in fuel injection engineering terms: Throttle Position Sensor based fueling or Alpha-N fueling). This high-RPM, large-throttle-position based fueling is a much simpler equation that is able to assume and/or ignore a lot of air pressure related issues. The fact that you report/find that your VFR runs normally at the high end makes me think you've got some sort of sensor problem that is affecting the PGM-FI system's ability to properly compensate the Manifold Absolute Pressure based fueling strategy that it uses when the engine is at lower RPM and partial throttle opening.
  14. The VFR's V4 engine is just 1/2 of a flat-plane crankshaft V8 engine. Our flat-plane V4 has the same package of advantages-disadvantages as the flat-plane V8, you can google search and learn about them. The flat-plane V8 engine has more vibration than a cross-plane V8, specifically a "second order" vibration (sometimes described as a "rocking" type of engine vibration) that is caused by the alternating-bank firing order (in the case of our V4 there are two occurrences of this event every 720 degrees of engine rotation, the firing of #3 and then #2 cylinders and the firing of #4 then #1 cylinders, one just after the other in separate cylinder banks. The flat-plane V8 has eight of these events per 720 degrees. This has the same effect in either engine). The performance advantages of a flat-plane crankshaft in a 90 degree V engine are big enough that manufacturers like Ferrari are willing to accept the downside that comes with the package. They do things to minimize the downside, like biasing the cylinder's bore & stroke toward the "oversquare" end of the spectrum (Honda went with 72 X 48mm in the VFR800). So if this is something that all VFRs share, why do some riders seem to feel it more than others? I've seen this sort of phenomena before, on other motorcycles (inline-4 cylinder engines produce some primary and secondary vibration). I've always imagined the bike functioning as a big tuning fork (the combination of engine, frame, handlebars, handlebar end-weights, foot-pegs, and etc.) and from the factory our VFR800 was tuned to (as much as possible) resonate out-of-phase (i.e. to passively cancel out) the V4 engine's inherent secondary-order vibration. All it takes is changing a few items in that "whole-bike" equation and you can accidentally end up with a big tuning fork that resonates with the engine's secondary-order vibration (amplifying it) instead of passively against it (and feeding it directly into your hands on the handlebar grips). Just saying that in the process of "personalization" of your VFR800 you may induce some (minor) unintended negative consequences along with the positive changes that you had in mind.
  15. Good to hear that the thermostat is fine, however, history and the experience of a good number of other owners would strongly indicate that if you own a 5th-Gen VFR and it still has its original thermostat you're running on borrowed time. Obviously, there will be a bell-curve of failure and it could be that you've got the really long-lasting outlier that defines the good tail-end of that bell-curve.