Cogswell

How does (or does it?) this work with the rear wheel from a SSSA? From the videos I've seen it appears to need the wheel bearings to keep it positioned. I've been using a Mojo lever and Marc Parnes balancer with good success. I've changed tires for friends - not too bad a job with the right equipment - a minor nightmare without. If there are any tutorials on using that tool on a SSSA rear wheel, would love to have a look at it.

From my experience, 5th gen R/R's from the factory were suspect - mine didn't make it to 10,000 miles before giving stray voltage output. Declining voltage as rpm increased was one of the symptoms. Regardless of whether you use the one you have in the shed, I'd be inclined to replace it.

This was the "what have I done" moment, after the VTEC was lowered from the frame with the 8,000 mile 5th gen motor waiting on the pallet. The cam cover is removed b/c I had already been in there adjusting the VTEC valves and it also gave me the extra clearance needed to clear the frame once lowered on the jack. Once it was back together and running, going for its first short ride around the block left me barely believing it was actually working. I read where others that have done this sit the engine down on block(s) and then lift the frame off and roll it away like a wheel barrow, leaving the engine behind. On top of the 2 step ladders is a thick wooden beam and ratchet straps. Either way works, this is just mine. Clearly this is quite invasive surgery, but very doable for any determined DIYer. Like any project, bag & tag fasteners, label, stay organized and torque to spec and you'll be good.

Knee down, toe about to drag, and the peg feeler still has a way to go before it touches. This one still has more in it re corning before it's at the limit. These bikes (as most modern motorcycles) are more capable than most of their riders (including me!).

If you're interested in how one will do on the track, have a look at this video of John McGuinness riding a 5th gen at a track day. This one has 100,000 miles and a luggage rack. Note that he's passing many sportier, more powerful (probably liter) bikes. They likely pull away from him down the straights, but in the corners he makes it all back and more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMWXwsGUGM8

IMHO they're a PITA. It is interesting how it works - and it does - but it seems mostly pointless comparing how that motor operates compared to a 5th gen. It doesn't seem to accomplish much, if anything. It could be different if this iteration of VTEC had variable valve timing, but this is just a light switch - either the 8 VTEC valves are working, or they're not.

I can't say for sure, but it appeared to me that all one needed to do would be to send key-on current through the VTEC solenoid full time to have all 4 valves operating continuously. If the ECU balked at that, then a workaround would be to add a second solenoid plugged in to the ECU, and it would "think" all was normal while the installed solenoid would make the VTEC valves operate continuously. I do agree that VTEC on these bikes was an answer searching for a problem. Strangely, when I checked my VTEC valves, the *all* were tight. That made no sense to me. I re-ran the check several times. Finally, I had an aviation mechanic / Honda bike lover come over and handed him the inspection procedure and pointed at the tools and said "tell me what you think". After about and hour * he said "all your VTEC valves are tight". That was when I began searching for a GDC replacement.

Hard to believe it's been that long ago. It will be 25 years this Dec that I took delivery of my (then) new 5th gen. Still have it - SO glad I kept it.

Count me among those . . . swapped mine during the Covid lockdown in '20, was great to have something to do whilst stuck at home. Main things I can think of * 5th gen engine bolts right in to the 5th gen frame - no mods needed. * The "cushion" (Honda's term - I would call it "swing arm mount") that connects the swingarm to the engine is different - requires a 6th gen version to mount to the engine * Yes, the swingarms are slightly different * 5th gen uses remote coils with HT leads, 6 gen is 3 wire COP setup. This is the BIG thing to contend with in doing a swap. I retained COPs. Alternative is to source 5th gen harness and ECU and swap all that over. * 6th gen rads are larger, IIRC 2 additional rows * 5th gen cylinder heads are about 1 1/2" shorter - creates no issues * Shorter heads mean that the cam timing marks no longer appear through the inspection hole in the 6th gen frame (most people don't know why that hole is there). Makes valve adjustments more difficult. Suggest checking valves prior to doing swap * Despite cylinder head differences, throttle bodies are a direct swap * Hoses, thermostat, everything cooling system is interchangeable * If keeping 6th gen electronics, you WILL need a VTEC solenoid connected to the harness or you will get a no-start * 5th gen has a smaller alternator than 03 and up 6th gens. Currently swapping a 6th gen alternator over. * Despite all the similarities in the engine block, water pump, etc, 5 & 6 G alternator covers are different and do not interchange. * As mentioned above 4th through 6th gen gear ratios are different. The 5th gen is under-driven by 1 additional tooth, makes for about 200 rpm or so increase at 70 mph cruise. Barely noticeable. * Power output is indistinguishable. Honda did not add VTEC for power, torque or any other discernable butt-dyno reason. Maybe emissions, marketing, or who knows why. I don't miss it, and I do NOT miss the insanely difficult valve adjustments on the VTEC - the main reason I swapped it out. * Despite keeping 6th gen electronics, there is no VTEC "hit or kick" . There is a subtle change going through 6,800, but if no one knew about it, they would have no idea - nothing like it is stock. * Wheels and front rotors are interchangeable. * 6th gen brake system has 2 proportioning control valves vs 5th gen 1 - bleeding procedure is similar, but different. The linked brakes are plumbed differently between the 2. * 6th gen has available factory luggage * I have seen 6th gen tanks swapped to a 5th gen - doable but requires trimming the 5th gen bodywork in the front where it curves around the tank * 6th gen has available ABS. I've read that about 10% came with ABS, but I know of no documentation of that. On 1 occasion I was glad to have ABS, for me a good addition. * 5th gen has more room under the seat. That's probably more than anyone wants to hear. Owning both, I don't note much difference between them. And now, having one swapped, there's even less. If it weren't for ABS and the factory luggage for long-haul riding, I would probably stick with the 5th gen. However parts are getting harder to find for them, so I don't know how much longer they will be practical for daily or long trip riding. There are still times when I start the 6th gen that I just look at it and still can't get used to hearing that whine from the cams. For my $, that was the best engine Honda ever did or will make. I'm super happy with it.

My 5G gasket(s) finally came in, which gave me the confidence to remove the 5G stator from its cover. I got to measuring the differences between the 5th and 6th gen versions, and it would seem that about the only similarity between them is that the inner mounting diameters and bolt patterns are the same. That's where it ends. I'll lay out the measurements I took below, using a digital slide caliper. Some of the measurements could be made accurately and repeatably, but others were somewhat guesses where the wire wrapped around each of the poles. It probably requires an electrical engineer with familiarity of these types of alternators to definitively say whether this makes a difference to power potential at various RPM's of each - definitely beyond my ability. I measured in inches - apologies to metric folks, but you get the idea. 5G 6G Inner mounting circumference 1.65 1.65 Outer circumference 4.23 4.54 Core thickness 1.05 .89 Height of pole(s) above core .84 .90 Width of each pole 1.40 1.30 Depth of pole .54 .59 The last 3 measurements took some estimating. The wiring obscures the true measurement, so I did my best to keep it consistent. The last item is interesting. The core appears to be a stack of plates vs a solid block of machined or cast metal. The 5th gen clearly has thicker ones. I used a fine dental pick to drag over each , counting each click as it slid across. The 5G core had a count of 22, and the 6G a count of 46. I could be off by a few - regardless it's quite noticeable just looking at it. But does that make any difference to the power potential of the stator? My intuition says no, but if not then why would Honda make such a significant change? Lastly, the 4 mounting bolts are significantly different length. I put the 6G core in the 5G cover and ran the bolts down by hand. Something seemed odd as I encountered resistance from the bolts but the core had play in it relative to the cover. Be careful if doing this swap and using the 5G bolts - with the 6G thinner core, shorter bolts will be required or the result could be stripped threads in the cover. In summary, the 6th gen stator is larger diameter, thinner, with poles (both have 18) that are taller but narrower. Possibly this allows for more wraps of wire which might be helpful - not sure. At any rate, it's not clear to me what this swap might accomplish. My real interest is in improving output at idle, as voltage going down the road is a steady 14.5v. It's mostly at stops particularly when the fan is running that things go south and I see low 12's for voltage. I am running an 847 R/R, so it's not OEM. If there's anyone that definitively knows if the differences in two stators would produce different results, it would be great to hear. Cheers

The last MC show in the NW part of the country was I think in 2014. At that one, Honda did not even have the then new 8th gen on hand. When I asked the two Honda reps about it, they looked at each other and shrugged. Things have really changed.

This is great - made in USA! I hadn't seen this one. I'm leery about offshore ones made from who knows what. Many thanks for the link.

Thanks bro! Hangin' in there. So another question related to this. Before I got ahead of myself and removed the stator from the 5th gen cover, I thought better to check to see if the gasket is available - it's stuck to the cover and I'll probaby ruin it to remove the stator. The gasket is NLA from Honda. So . . . there are aftermarket options on ebay. Does anyone have any experience with one or the other (or from a non-ebay source) that might be a good pick for a replacement? Thanks to all!

I'm not sure about reliability - my 6th gen seems to eat stators like potato chips at a Super Bowl party. The 6th gen's is larger diameter, 4.52" vs 4.26" on the 5th gen, about 6.1% larger. IDK how much more power that translates in to. The yellow output wires for both measure 2.2mm outer diameter around the yellow insulation, so the same. Custom Rewind, below, put 2.9mm OD wire on my 6th gens, so a big improvement. If anyone is wondering, Custom Rewind is still in business. I talked to them about a week ago. They did my 6th gen's 1st rewind and it was great. Cost now is $135 shipped back to you. Phone is 205-798-7282. 2014 Pratt Hwy, Birmingham, AL. 35214 If you leave a message they will eventually call you back. They will give you a custom length wire and whatever connector you specify. Probably should call them 1st before asking for the latter.

How has this been working out long term? Is there any update on clearance issues that might have arisen? I'm a bit nervous about trying it - the 5th gen cover is on the left, 6th gen on the right. I thought the covers would swap, but they don't. They're sufficiently different that I'm not sure I can sufficiently measure to be sure the flywheel won't rub on the inner cover where it tapers to the outside. Thanks for any updates! Cheers